Still looking for the big break?

[Dixieblade57]

I am not sure that is the proper title for this thread. I realize the quality of your work is what markets your product. But you can have the best product in the world and if no one knows about it, you got the best product and no market!
First let me say I did not get in to knife making to become rich and famous. I make knives because I like it! I had however hoped to make a little bean money. Why, well I guess just because I like to eat! You would never know that by my petite little 275 lb. frame!!!!!!!

So here goes with several questions I am going to throw out for discussion.
I realize word of mouth is one of the best ways to sell a knife. However few people outside of the knife forums even know me, and you can only sell so many knives to friends and realtives and that still is not getting your name known in a wide circle!

What do you recommend as good places to market your knives?

Do you sell at local events, in otherwords do you find it profitable to rent a table at such events?


Every knife I have let someone see and handle in person has sold. So I don't feel it is the quality of my knives that is holding back the selling of my knives.

Is the key to selling knives on the internet mostly good photos?

Do you sell online, on the forums?

I have sold several knives but, one place I hate to sell is EBay as they all are looking for the best bargain, and there again with out your name doing the selling you are at the mercy of the flea market mentality.


Do you build the kind of knives you want to build or do you build to suit the market?

Case in point I like the 1800’s style knives. However I am finding out the market may not be as good for that kind of knife as I had hoped. They lack the flash, the “glim and glam” that seem to sell most of the knives. In other words if it’s not a mirror finish most folks don’t seem interested.
Personally and this is my personal feeling I don’t like a mirror finish, they are kind of like a high maintenance woman, too much trouble to maintain!
I have other knives I would like to build besides the 1800’s style and think maybe this is the best endeavor, to morph over into another area of the market. This next question is kind of like part two of the previous question.

Do you build knives that market to more than one end of the market and styles?

I see folks all the time at the counter in the stores, looking at the over counter version of a particular knife and I just want to walk up and ask. Would you pay anymore for the same knife if it was a custom made knife, made especially just for you? I don’t because I am afraid there answer would be, NO! The aveage person has no concept of the difference between a custom knife and sheath verses a production piece, all they see is price!

My next question is how do you over come the custom knife verses the over the counter knife comparison?

The quality of my knives has increased with each and every knife and I want to stay with knife making. I already have a fair amount of money invested in equipment but, I also need to see a little light at the end of the tunnel as far as return. Any advice on building what sells and marketing knives would be greatly appreciated!
That way next time I look at the light at the end of the tunnel I will know it's not the train coming!

 

[T.A.DAVISON]

What do you recommend as good places to market your knives?

Knife Shows or Bladeforums.com

Do you sell at local events, in otherwords do you find it profitable to rent a table at such events?

No - you just about cover the cost - especially if there is travel involved?


So I don't feel it is the quality of my knives that is holding back the selling of my knives.

What do you feel IS holding you back??


Is the key to selling knives on the internet mostly good photos?

That is a big part - BUT you have to have good knives at the right price.

Do you sell online, on the forums?

YES!!! and to a few dealers.


Do you build the kind of knives you want to build or do you build to suit the market?

I build what I like, not an easy way to go but works for me.

Do you build knives that market to more than one end of the market and styles?

Not really.

My next question is how do you over come the custom knife verses the over the counter knife comparison?

The QUALITY!!!!

The quality of my knives has increased with each and every knife and I want to stay with knife making. I already have a fair amount of money invested in equipment but, I also need to see a little light at the end of the tunnel as far as return. Any advice on building what sells and marketing knives would be greatly appreciated!
That way next time I look at the light at the end of the tunnel I will know it's not the train coming!
Can I ask how long have you made knives?
And how MANY have you made? - just asking.

Knife making is a very hard business, knife selling is not much easier.

Todd



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[Patrickknives]

You have discovered something that many have not, having a good product is just a small part of a business. Marketing is the key to finding customers. There are knife makers who will disagree and say that they never marketed their product, however, they did market just very slowly. They talked with friends and neighbors and sold a few knives until they built their business.

The question is how quickly do you want to build your business. The answere to many of the questions you have depends on that answere.

"Do you build the kind of knives you want to build or do you build to suit the market?"
The perfect solution that you are building both, but to build your business more quickly you may consider building both until you build the part of the business you enjoy the most.

"My next question is how do you over come the custom knife verses the over the counter knife comparison? " I have never had a real customer ask this questions, why buy a porshe when a toyota will get you to work, not a question by a person in the market for a porshe, there is no correct answere.


"Is the key to selling knives on the internet mostly good photos?

Do you sell online, on the forums?" Simple answere is yes, more complicated is sending traffic to your site that is interested in your knives. The forums are great but limited. Who buys your knives? , why? where do they live?, what do they do with the knife? The answere to these questions is where your market lies, "Case in point I like the 1800’s style knives"... collectors, urban cowboys, reenactment, historians?? There is a market for these knives but you must find who they are.

My best suggestion is to get a web site, nothing fancy at first. Show your work and drive traffic to your web site, discuss the site with everyone and give them a business card with you site address. If you are really going whole hog, put a knife maker sign on your car or truck, offer free sharpening. Alot you can do.

 

[Dixieblade57]

Knife making is a very hard business, knife selling is not much easier.

Todd



.

Actually Todd I have found just the opposite. I find making has been easier than marketing!

You asked how long I have been making. This is the second year. I do not do this full time as I am disabled, I also take care of my Grandsom for my daughter to go to college 5 days a week. That leaves me the evenings and weekends. I have spent a lot of this past year gearing up . Going from doing all of knives by hand with files. To building my first forge and aqcuiring my first anvil, and I am in the process of building my own 2x72 grinder.
To date I have made around a dozen knives and have sold all but one. You asked what I thought the problem was if it was not the quality of my knives. I think it is the market. I have not found a way to tap into the market for the 1800's style knives. I have sold a couple that would not really qualify as the 1800's style and they sold well so that's why I am thinking of opening up a second line of knives.
The question about custom verses over the counter, I understand it is the quality that sells. My problem is I can't find the loose pockets. They just look at the bottom line, and that is cost; not quality!!
In otherwords I found the guy looking in Kmart for a quality suit. Go figure!
Thanks for the advice.

 

[Dixieblade57]

You have discovered something that many have not, having a good product is just a small part of a business. Marketing is the key to finding customers. There are knife makers who will disagree and say that they never marketed their product, however, they did market just very slowly. They talked with friends and neighbors and sold a few knives until they built their business.

The question is how quickly do you want to build your business. The answere to many of the questions you have depends on that answere.

"Do you build the kind of knives you want to build or do you build to suit the market?"
The perfect solution that you are building both, but to build your business more quickly you may consider building both until you build the part of the business you enjoy the most.

"My next question is how do you over come the custom knife verses the over the counter knife comparison? " I have never had a real customer ask this questions, why buy a porshe when a toyota will get you to work, not a question by a person in the market for a porshe, there is no correct answere.


"Is the key to selling knives on the internet mostly good photos?

Do you sell online, on the forums?" Simple answere is yes, more complicated is sending traffic to your site that is interested in your knives. The forums are great but limited. Who buys your knives? , why? where do they live?, what do they do with the knife? The answere to these questions is where your market lies, "Case in point I like the 1800’s style knives"... collectors, urban cowboys, reenactment, historians?? There is a market for these knives but you must find who they are.

My best suggestion is to get a web site, nothing fancy at first. Show your work and drive traffic to your web site, discuss the site with everyone and give them a business card with you site address. If you are really going whole hog, put a knife maker sign on your car or truck, offer free sharpening. Alot you can do.

You know Patrick you said a lot in a short order in this reply. Give me a lot to think about, and opens up some new insights as to the way to go to help in marketing my knives. Thanks!:thumbup:

 

[T.A.DAVISON]

Actually Todd I have found just the opposite. I find making has been easier than marketing!

This is just because you have not tried a slip joint yet?.......

Seriously your still pretty new at it, set up a web site.
And join here as a knife maker when you can?
Keep making them - I think you will do fine, take care.

Todd



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[Ed Caffrey]

What do you recommend as good places to market your knives?

In the beginning, anywhere that you can sell them, get your name out there, and develop a reputation. Custom knives are not only about the knives, but about the maker. By that I mean with each knife you sell, your selling a little piece of yourself along with it.
I once had a prominent collector purchase a high end bowie from me at the Blade show. Although I had no idea, he told me that he had stood across the isle from my table for about an hour, listening to me talk with folks who stopped by. He said that he heard me answer the same question(s) at least a dozen times, and that each time I had answered the question(s) with the same thoroughness and enthusiasm as I had the first time. He further explained that he had been watching my work for a while, and once he understood the kind of person I was, it sealed the deal for him. That single instance convinced me that selling custom knives is as much about the maker and his/her reputation, as it is the knives.

Do you sell at local events, in otherwords do you find it profitable to rent a table at such events?

For a number of years I attended local events, such as gun shows, art shows, and just about anywhere else that I could get my knives in front of the public. As time went by, I developed my reputation, and the demand for my knives increased. As that happened I stepped into higher level venues, and eventually it got to the point where I could spend an entire weekend at a gun show, and MAYBE sell $200-$400 worth of knives. By doing the math, I understood that at a point my time was better spent in the shop, filling orders....meaning that it was more profitable to do the shop time filling orders, than to waste 2 days to sell less than what I could make in the shop over that same time span.

Is the key to selling knives on the internet mostly good photos?

Not completely, but it is a huge part of the sale. Since a customer cannot see the knife in person, its of great importance to represent the knife in as much detail, with the best images possible. Something I also do is provide a 7 day inspection period for most of my knives. Once a customer receives a knife, they have 7 calendar days to decided if they want to keep it or not. As long as the knife is returned to me in the same condition it was sent, the client gets their money back, no questions asked.

Do you sell online, on the forums?

I do all of the above. As travel expenses are ever on the rise, and more custom knife buyers turn to the internet for their knives, I have seen my online sales increase to the point that it constitutes approx. 70% of my sales. Look at it this way.... If you go to a higher end knife show, you MIGHT see/expose yourself to a few hundred people. By posting your knives on the internet, you potentially have the whole world as an audience. The odds are just much greater that you will connect with that specific individual who simply must have the knife your trying to sell. The term "Ebay" makes me cringe when associated with selling knives. I think it shows that an individual is desperate to sell, and is willing to take whatever they can get for their work.

Do you build the kind of knives you want to build or do you build to suit the market?

I think in the beginning, you must build the knives that appeal most to the current market. As you become more well known, and develop your reputation, you will find yourself building more knives that are your own type/style. There will come a point where you can see the trends, and still produce your own type/style of knife, but by modifying "little" things about them, you can appeal to whatever the current trend might be. The other thing is to be innovative. I'm not tooting my own horn, but a number of years ago, I decided that I needed to produce a small, lower priced, day to day carry knife. My EBK series of knives was born. At the time, my EBKs were the only knives like them around. If you look around today, just about everybody produces a similar type knife. There are even a couple of makers out there who jokingly call them "the Ed Caffrey Rip-Off". I think thats pretty cool! I designed something that others liked enough to copy, and every time they use that quoted term to describe it, my name is mentioned.

My next question is how do you over come the custom knife verses the over the counter knife comparison?

You don't. What you do have to do is educate, educate, educate. Those folks who believe that a factory knife is a better bargain than a quality custom, have likely never owned or used a custom knife. Its up to you to get your knives in their hands. If that means letting some go out for a hunting season, or whatever, then consider it an investment in your future.
I have a tag line that I often respond with when someone freaks out over the price of one of my knives. Its also posted in both my shops, and on my business cards. That quote is "I WOULD RATHER EXPLAIN PRICE....THAN APOLOGIZE FOR QUALITY!"

Another quote that I like is:
"Buying quality is like buying oats. If you want nice fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. If you can get by with oats that have been through the horse....those come a little cheaper."

The point being that you are the one who establishes your own level of quality. Whether that be a bargain basement level, or the very best you can do, its up to you to establish, and more importantly, maintain it. If you establish a reputation for building "lower end" quality knives, then thats what your reputation will become, and once established, it will be a hard thing to change. My advice is to only let those knives out of your shop that are the very best work you can do, and seek to improve that quality with each piece that you produce. None of us are perfect, and we all make mistakes. The difference between a knifemaker, and a Good knifemaker is that the good knifemaker knows how to avoid, or repair their mistakes

One of the things I did years ago was to "give" knives to hunting guides for the purpose of testing them. The deal was: They used the knife for the hunting season, and if they didn't like it, they could return it to me when the season was over, or they could purchase it as a reduced price. Over 20 knives when out the door to that cause, and every single one was purchased by the individuals. That created business because the hunters who came to those hunting camps would see the knives, watch them perform, and would want one for their own...which meant orders for me.

Once an individual has the opportunity to use a quality custom knife, its very unlikely that they will ever revert to the factory variety again.

Something else to keep in mind that I feel many newer makers get a false view on is general knife sales. Even the "big dogs" don't make their living off high end bowies, etc. We all have our "bread and butter" knives, and most of the time, those knives are in the lower price range.

 

[rwiggins]

Dixie, do you attend any of the reenactment events (buck skinning, civil war, etc.)? It might be a good idea to frequent their forums. You will probably have to have some kind of paid membership to sell, but remember the adage - it takes money to make money. Also a web page is a must nowadays. If you need more info, shoot me an email, and I'll put you in touch with someone who knows the reenactment scene pretty well. You also might be able to sell to places like Dixie Gun Works and Track of the Wolf.

 

[Dixieblade57]

Ed, there is a lot good advice in your reply, many thanks. I especially love the two quotes about quality! :thumbup:

You know this is the kind of advice I have been looking for. I am not totally new to this game. Well maybe on the knife end of it! but before I got hurt. I did construction from the time I was about 14.
So I learned it in the school of hard knocks. By the time I was unable to do it anymore I had been making things with my hands for a number of years. I have done everything from general construction to residential and commercial.
The last few years mostly trim carpentry, custom cabinets, furniture making. So I know how long it takes to build a cliental. I just don't know if I have that long left in me again!
Thanks for all the advice. I think I know where I need to concentrate my efforts for now!
Somtimes it just helps to have somone outside of the box look at the organization of your priorities.
For now I think I will diversify some. I have built some skinners in the past that sold well and even though they didn't fit with the 1800's crowd they sold well. Then take the money there and turn it towards a memebership and website and then see where that takes me. Thanks again evryone!

 

[rwiggins]

Hey Dixie! Email sent your way. Hope it helps!

 

[skilldust]

Keep making them [from your heart] buddy and your turn will come.
Jerry

 

[Phil Dwyer]

Good thread, good questions, good answers. Thanks guys!

 

[Keith Willis]

Great question,Dixie
Thanks Ed,for that reply,great advice for any of us trying to get started.

God bless,Keith

 

[Barry Clodfelter]

Great question and an even better answer Ed!!

I am making knives because I want to make them. I don't really care if I ever become a known maker. This is my hobby and I want it to stay that way. Too often when a hobby becomes a job the funs fades and it feel...well...like a job.

 

[murphda2]

Ed,

Thank you for your guidance. I always enjoy reading the advice you offer to all of us new guys. The lessons you've learned over the years that you so graciously share with all of us is greatly appreciated.

Murph

 

[Don Hanson III]

I'm not known for very long posts, so I'll just address the title of this thread

Back in 97, after nearly a decade of fulltime knifemaking, I was looking for
the "big break" and wondering why my stuff wasn't all over the knife mags.

It all of the sudden hit me. The mags only publish what folks send in
And buyers only buy what they can see

So I wrote up an article on myself and sent it to KI with decent photos of my
work and they published it!!! Light bulb goin off yet?

Soon after, I started having my work photographed professionally (they send
copies to all the mags). I was already doin a fair number of shows but
needed more exposure, so I started advertising in Blade and KI.

With the combination of the above events, all hell broke lose and I've been
busier than I want to be ever since.

The "big break" will not just happen. You have to make it happen!

First, it's a lot of work. Second, you have to make knives that folks want to buy.

 

[Dixieblade57]

You know I kind of had plans of just letting this thread die out but, it seems for once I may have just asked the right questions here!

The post continues to get great feedback and great ideas, thanks to the many replies from some very established knife makers and some like myself, still inspiring to be established knife makers. The quality of comments and ideas that have been added to this thread, are really getting great information out to new and inspiring knife makers.

Yes, multiple light bulbs have begun to come on for me! Also replies by some members may have just put me onto the right market for the items I like to build.

I have taken that initiative to fire off an email to that contact and I have hopes will start the ball rolling for myself. After all, “the only can do is say no, they can't eat you” At the very least I will be made a contact that may be very beneficial to me and my knife making business, instead of just setting and waiting for the right person to see my work!

Thanks again to all that have taken the time to answer a few questions that may benefical to all reading this!:thumbup:

 

[heatheninthehills]

I too would like to say thanks to everyone who responded these are the kinds of questions I have been dealing with as well. And all of these answers have helped me as well. Thanks also to dixieblade for opening it up.