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michdad

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Apr 24, 2007
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I have been learking here lots, posting a little, sometimes silly questions in retrospect. CAN'T QUITE SEEM TO FIND THE ANGLES! Nope, haven't been grinding for the months that I have been asking, long story for a different thread. Here's my problem, as best I can figure. I am more a mechanic than an artist, and have been spending way too much time trying to figure out geometry, drawing, and numbers. I am on a tight budget, so am leary about turning O-1 nd A-2 into a bunch of small chips and frustration. I am working with a 4X36/6inch sander, and a hand full of files to work the steel. Do I just start with about a 45, and profile the blade from there and go by eye?, Is there a certain way to determin starting angle reguarding desired blade geometry? Do I just risk turning a bunch of steel into chips to figure this out? Did I pick the wrong steel for me to learn?

I can do a very nice edge/restoration on a finished blade. I do this by stone and file, so I do have the patients and eye to do that. Figured I MIGHT have the eye to learn how to make one from a piece of steel. Any help would be appreciated.

Matt
 
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=562593&highlight=angle

I posted a chart of angles in the past available at the link.

I tend to think in the same way.

As for which angles is appropriate?
buy some knives :) and see for yourself.
I have used a protractor to measure some.

small kitchen knives can be very fine and thinly ground, choppers much heavier and everything else somewhere in between.
ie a small hunter measures about 5 or 6 degrees - 2.5 to 3 per side....

Some makers use a jig such as clamping the blade to a short piece of angle iron and setting the bevel angle in the grinder toolrest.

oh - to most people "profiling" means shaping the outline of the knife -the silhouette - the profile -


Nothing wrong with O1 - when sold as bar - it's annealed and easy to work, gives good results, available widely, easily heat-treatable professionally - or otherwise.


If you are filing in the bevels, there are many different filing jig setups in this forum - search on Keith
 
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Matt, I'd try to find a knifemaker in your drivable area. Call them up, introduce yourself, and ask if you could come by, see their shop, and get some start-up pointers.
To find them, you can go to your nearest large bookseller and look in the back of Knives Annual 2009. There are directories that break down knifemaker locations by state and city. Then look up their phone and address in the alphabetical listings section.
You might also change your profile to include your city in the location. Someone here may even be right around the corner from you and willing to chat a bit.
If you're anything like me, talking in person where visual aids are available will shorten the learning process markedly.
 
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fitzo said:
Matt, You might also change your profile to include your city in the location. Someone here may even be right around the corner from you and willing to chat a bit.
If you're anything like me, talking in person where visual aids are available will shorten the learning process markedly.
Click to expand...

Quite correct there!, just a bit on the shy side, but been chatting here long enough to do this. Thanks for the reminder.

Matt

BTW, is updated!, Sorry, didn't say it was.
 
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Most all knifemakers are quite near-normal, don't eat people, and remember their own humble beginnings and the people who helped them. There is a strong tradition of passing this stuff on to new people and helping them get started. Don't be afraid of admitting what you don't know....yet! All most makers ever seek is a sincerity in wanting to learn.
 
fitzo said:
Most all knifemakers are quite near-normal, don't eat people, and remember their own humble beginnings and the people who helped them. There is a strong tradition of passing this stuff on to new people and helping them get started. Don't be afraid of admitting what you don't know....yet! All most makers ever seek is a sincerity in wanting to learn.
Click to expand...


who says??;):D
 
Matt, when I flat grind I hold the spine and blade edge. I hold it to the grinder and push harder on the edge side. I keep going till I hit my scribed lines on the blade edge, without overgrinding into the spine itself (hopefully), leaving about a dimes width left for an edge before ht. So for me the angle is determined more by the starting thickness of the steel than any preconceived angle I intend to set. If I want a Fillet knife I use thin steel and for a chopper thicker.

Now for hollow grinding there is a chart that will relate wheel size and stock thickness/height to prescribe different wheel diameters for different stock. I have a 10" wheel only so I just make it work. I look down on the blade as I am grinding and if you drew a horizontal line through the center of my wheel I keep the top of the edge right at that point. This assures I end up with a grind that has two edges that are parallel to each other instead of angling in or out.

I am probably making it sound a lot more complicated than it is. Do what everyone else is saying and get some time in a shop. I t will help more than my ramblings but hopefully that answers the question I think you are asking.
 
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Matt, Well, i was a mechanic also..And i am not in the least bit artistic ...MOst of my knives are for deer hunters....Lots of them in this neighborhood....If you are ever in the Cincinnatti area i would be glad to set aside a day to help you get started.........I am 30 miles north of Cincy...Being retired i can afford a day.....I have a nice shop that i have been working on for 10 years...I mean adding tools....Its a mess.....Keep at it....It gets easier.....................carl
 
Without a good gringer it is a hit and miss thing, make the file jig and get the angle you want started and then you can follow it up with the sander, it is easier to follow the bevel with those sanders than start them. If you can't bring yourself to make dust of steel staet with some wood or cheap mild steel for practice.
Cheers Ron.
 
Matt, if you can scare up a copy of Alan Blade's flat grind vcr video it might help.
Not sure where my copy is.
 
Why not just practice on a piece of the same size and thickness hardwood? I had a 4x36 belt sander that I first started making knives on, but found that the small drive belt wore all the teeth off in a hurry. I switched to a 6x48 belt sander and it works great for me.
 
i too started with a 4x36 then upgraded:confused::eek: to a 1x42
i now have a KMG
but any how

i like to mark the center of my edge on the bar stock then cut that mark in on the grinder at a 45 degree angle
from there its all about walking the grind up the blade to the the point you want to go(or to the spine a few blades till you get the hang of it:o) we all have done it
 
I gave up being shy about grinding steel into dust. Last night I got a profile on a piece of O-1 that I am happy with. I did use a bench grinder :eek: to expedite some of the work, then cleaned up with a file. Next is to grind the "business" part of the blade. I'll take advice offered, and grind to 45, then go from there. Wasn't too painful, except when steel got hot. :cool: I figured when it got to burning my finger tips, it was time to let it cool!
 
michdad said:
I figured when it got to burning my finger tips, it was time to let it cool!
Click to expand...

HA! That sounds like me last weekend! I am trying to flat grind a couple of large blades and it's amazing how hot steel and cold steel look the same. I had sore fingertips for a couple of days. Gonna get back at it tomorrow, and I'll probably burn 'em again.:thumbup:

Big Fun!!
 
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