STILL why tactical knives?

TAH

TAH

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The other post got off on what is the definition of a "tactical" knife and left my original question in the dark. Please exclude military personnel, LEOs, and professional knife fighters from this post. My question has still not been answered. What do you USE these high tech, indestructible, multi-use "tactical" knives for? I am just trying to find out why they are so popular and if I need one. Is it for their superior performance over a "regular" knife or just for their bad ass appearance? Here is a list of chores that I ask my little George Herron to perform. Field dress fish & game, prepare food, open stubborn food packages, cut various types of rope, and most importantly...make a hotdog stick. I love Johnsonville brats! Do you guys like those? Especially the original ones with....never mind. Anyway, all heavy wood cutting is done by an axe or handsaw. At no time, while performing these tasks, have I ever thought, "Damn, I need a tougher knife."
 
Since you've excluded many of the intended users and therefore most of the intended uses, from the definition, I'm not sure what you have left. My experience is that most folks who buy "tactical" knives with any intention they might be used, do so anticipating one or more of the uses defined by those three categories of users.
 
Okay, I'll bite... I use my "tactical" knives for the same purposes you use your Herron. I just enjoy the security of knowing that my knife is as strongly built as it can be, and that it fits my hand as securely as possible. Do I ever intend on getting in a knife fight? Nope. Would I use my knife to pry open a car door? Not if the handle worked. Do I like using my health insurance? Nope, that neither. But I feel safer having a knife that fits my hand securely, and has the strength to handle abuse in an emergency, just like I like having Health New England, in case I fall and break my leg.

If your Herron works for you; right on. Do you need a "tactical" knife? Nope. I don't either. Would you enjoy owning one? Maybe. I certainly do, both for the functional advantages in strength, durability, and security offered by "tactical" designs, and the enjoyment I get from owning a finely crafted tool.

NB: I use the term "tactical" in quotes here, because I don't want to get into the minefield of specifically defining the sort of knife it is. Suffice to say, a knife unspecialized in fighting, skinning game, cutting rope, prying ammo crates, but designed so as to be capable of all of those endeavors, with a substantial margin of strength built in to handle the abuse possible in emergency uses, when it is not the best tool for the job, but rather the one available, combined with ergonomics sufficient to prevent injury and enable effective use under taxing conditions.
 
Here is a list of chores that I ask my little George Herron to perform. Field dress fish & game, prepare food, open stubborn food packages, cut various types of rope, and most importantly...make a hotdog stick.
Click to expand...

I my opinion you just defined "Utility Knife" With your exclusions above you cut out most of the valid users.

I do spend a lot of time in the woods, so here is a "for instance" for you. A couple summers ago I spent 10 days in the River of No Return wilderness of Idaho co instructing a survival trip with Hoods Woods. I took a "Tactical" knife as my primary tool. (Sandblasted brick as someone calls them) Some of the chores I used it for were skinning a dead elk we found in a creek, digging Blue Camas and wild onion roots, digging post holes for shelters, chopping all sorts of materials including wood and bone, digging out snared gophers that had to much snare wire, prying bark off dead fall to shingle shelters with, and even cut a horse shoe in half to make metal tools with a expident forge we made. I never cut hot dog sticks cause we didnt have any, but did cut sticks to roast gophers and squirells with. There is more but you get the drift. I was damn glad to have a big tough "Tactical" knife along, I would have been much colder and much hungrier without it. :)

I envy you with your Herron knife, he is one of the great masters in my opinion, but the Herron wouldnt have stood the test on the circumstances I explain above. I also do a lot of hunting, and I take a knife much like you describe for that. Hope this helps.
 
Why I carry a bechmade AFCK instead of a slipjoint:

You can skin a deer, open packages, cut string and so on with a slipjoint. You can do the same chores with a yac folder. Evertry the spine whack test on a slipjoint? DON'T DO IT! :) Be as careful as you want, sometimes crap happens. I like knowing that if my AFCK accidentally gets smacked on something, the blade won't close on my fingers.

The 1/8" thick, hollow saber ground blade offers more tool performance. I can do some prying chores that I can't with a slipjoint. I tend to see my pocket knives more as tools than just cutters. Thus, the tac folder is built to take more abuse in these "tool" roles, like prying. Brian Jones recently told a story of how he used his large TOPS CQT Magnum folder for a couple of rescue-type situations he happenned to come upon. In one, he pryed open a door jam thingy at a bar to free the woman who was trapped in the bathroom. The other one involved coming upon a woman who had hit a deer with her SUV. Sparing the detais, brian used his knife to dispatch the still alive deer in a very quick manner that is hard on knives, and he used th eknife to cut away part of the plastic bumper which had impacted on a tire and prevented the vehicle from moving. Try cutting through an SUV bumper with a slipjoint!! :)

Also, don't discount self-defence completely. You may not go looking for trouble, but trouble may come looking for you. In some cases, a knife might be able to get you out of the trouble alive, or your family out alive, or whatever. A tac folder is built with these considerations in mind, slipjoints aren't.

Finally, there is the looks thing. If you like a knife, get it! It is that simple. I actually want a Camillus stockman. Why? Because I have been seeing so many pic of stockmans and such in the mags that I want to get one to play with. I think they are neat now. But, it will be ridding along with my tac folder!
 
Well TAH, you seem to me to have answered your own question. For the purposes you use a knife for, you do not need a tactical knife. Unless of course those brats put up a fight before you get them on that stick.

When I first got into knives, which was many years ago by the way, all I was interested in was big ass bowies, hunting knives and folding hunters. At that time there was no tactical knife classification. There were of course, military knives and fighting knives (I kind of liked those Loveless subhilt fighters as well), but nothing that was called a tactical knife. I am not sure who were the first makers to start the tactical knife craze, but the first that I noticed were Bob Terzuola and Ernest Emerson. Maybe because these knives were different, I fell in love with the look of them and for the next dozen or so years that was the only style of knife I would own. Did these knives do anything that the knives I had owned before them didn't do? No, they were not asked to. I used them for exactly the same chores as I did the hunting knives and folders that I had owned before. They just looked cool to me and that is the only reason that I bought them.

No longer do I lust for the tactical knife look. I still think that some of them are great looking knives, but my taste in knives has gone full circle back to the knives of my youth.

Will most people ever need a tactical knife? I sure hope not. Should you own one (or more)? In my opinion, if you like the way they look, they will perform as well as other types of knives for the tasks you will put them through, so why not? If you do not like the way they look, then why bother? They will not do anything for you that other styles of knives won't.


Edited because I left out a word and added a letter where it did not belong.
 
Rob,

Good reply! You finally answered my question. You're right, my Herron would have flown back to the nest if asked to do those chores. The reason I excluded the military and LEOs is because it is obvious why they would carry a "tactical" knife, but they are definitely not the only market. There are many, many civilians buying these "tactical" knives and I just wanted to know what other tasks (beyond the ones I mentioned) were being performed with a knife of this construction.
 
Keith,

I'm still laughing at your "brats putting up a fight" remark. That was funny. I think I'll save my money and not buy a tactical knife. That way I'll have more money for brats. Still laughing.......
 
Well, I'm a Chiropractor so unless I want to go beyond my scope of practice and perform back surgery, I'd probably never use a knife at work for a tactical reason. But currently, I rotate a Strider folder (really big and heavy, but I like the design) and a Ken Onion custom in the office to open packages and mail. One of my weekend activities is taking adventure hikes and I'll carry a Hartsfield or Chuck Stapel "tactical" knife on my belt and one of the folders in my pocket. Why carry a knives on a hike? maybe I'll be attacked by a mountain lion, but I can't remember seeing any in the San Gabriel mountains near LA. I like the security I guess. At home, I'm the cook, and I enjoy cutting meat and vegetables with a Hartsfield tactical cleaver. For smaller food items, I will use a Bob Lum Chinese folder because it is sharp, has a flat grind and can do some pretty fine cutting. Last week, we had some very high winds that blew a lot of tree branches down. I think it is seasonal because the same thing happened last year. Though not a "custom" I used a Mad Dog ATAK to chop up the thicker branches.

I do train in martial arts, and I first developed an interest in knives, particularly fighting and tactical knives because of martial arts, but I've never been in a knife fight, with the acception of training, and I hope I never have to get into one. I like the tacticals because I like the way they look and the design elements. They are usually without the bells and whistles, with g-10, or dark micarta, or cord wrapped, or no-wrap handles, and I like that. For the the folders it's much of the same. Though I will often still cringe a bit, I am more willing to use the tacticals because I won't feel as bad if I marr a satin or blasted finish than if I marr a highly polished finish. We all know the amount of work and skill it takes to put a high-grade finish on a knife. Why ruin the workmanship? Part of me loves MOP, the warmth of wood, and ivory, but to me those handle material don't belong on a using tactical knife, though there are probab;y some people that think otherwise.

Anyways, that's what I use my tactical knives for. The appeal for me is still the design of the blade, the ruggedness of the handle materials, the cutting ability of the knife. Oh, the sheath for a straight knife is also important to me. Though I like leather, kydex and nylon is what I prefer. I have yet to see a high-polish blade survive unmarred in a kydex sheath. Hope this helps.
 
Originally posted by TAH
Please exclude military personnel, LEOs, and professional knife fighters from this post.
Click to expand...

What is a professional knife fighter? That sounds kinda dangerous.

I mean, there are professional boxers... pro wrestlers ... pro martial arts practicioners, pro kick boxers...

~~~~~~~~~~
Tactical knives may be hard to define, but to me they are adequate for a variety of needs, from self defense to heavy duty use outdoors. Combat knives are similar in scope of use, but have a military flavor (black coating or other muted coating for better covertness, no flash, otherwise they are about the same as a good tactical fixed blade in my book, off the top of my head).

A well designed tactical folder is, IMHO:
* something you can carry comfortably, and daily (pocket clip, sized right i.e. not too big)
* has a secure grip (thrusting, slashing... this means an index finger "guard" to me among other things)
* has a comfortable grip for utility work
* blade grind that is at least very good, and may be excellent for self defense
* a blade grind that is also useful for utility chores (rules out chisel grinds and tanto's IMO)
* made from handle materials and steel that you deem adequate (subjective)


A well designed tactical fixed blade, again IMHO, something that is:
* something you can carry comfortably outdoors in a good sheath
* has a secure grip (thrusting, slashing)
* blade grind that is at least good, and may be excellent for self defense
* a blade grind that is also useful for utility chores in the wilderness (see Simonich above)
* made from handle materials and steel that you deem adequate

Many people equate "tactical" with "self defense". I can understand that. Dictionary defines "tactic" as being "an expedient for achieving a goal; a maneuver". So I end up with a broader definition in my own mind than just "self defense".

Many fixed blades are purpose-designed, and wouldn't really qualify as "tactical", but may be good utility knives. A good example is the drop point hunter or the semi-skinner hunting knife.

There are folders/fixed blades that are skewed towards self defense, and therefore make less-than-friendly utility blades (radical recurves, chisel grinds, tanto tips, big awkward double guards, handles not adequate for chopping, etc)

There are utility folders/fixed blades that are not adequate defense blades (less than rugged locks, no "guard" for index finger, insecure grip, etc)

Tactical blades kind of find middle ground between pure utility and pure defense. Sorta.
 
RW, I stand corrected!:D

The trip we were on and the horseshoe cutting thing were in the now defunct American Survival Guide magazine. Also in Volume 10 of Hoods Woods videos.
 
I can't think of reason not to carry tactical style folders. When it comes to customs, very few tacticals are really ugly with the flat black blades. That sounds more like Benchmade or Microtech than actual customs. Terzoula is the only custom maker I know who makes alot of black blades, and his are actually quite good looking. Tacticals are very good looking to me. I like G-10 and micarta, especially when one can see the layers of G-10. Carbon fiber is my absolute favorite handle material and I think that it looks great. Tacticals are also very sturdy and can be bought in any size. My small De Villiers, Lum, and TNT make fine gents knives eventhough they are tactically styled. I love a great lock, one hand opening, and the overall quality of a great handmade. Frankly, I think tacticals, especially smaller ones, just make great pocket knives.
 
I equate tactical with modern.
These are modern knives made with modern materials.
New lock designs, G-10 & Carbon Fiber, Titanium and alpha numeric steels, chemical blade coatings and more :D
The knife is man's oldest tool and 'Tactical' is the latest evolution of the 'Do It All Knife'.
 
Okay, here's my dilema. For the functions that have been described as 'Tactical' these would qualify as great tactical knives.

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but from the aesthetic description of a 'tactical' knife they would not qualify while these would.

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Frankly, I'm far more likely to take one the first group in the wilderness than any of the second group. So, will the real tactical knife please stand up?
 
rdanderer,

I was being facetious about the professional knife fighter. I guess I should have said amateur knife fighter. I don't think there is another NFL (Nife Fighting League). Can you image the injury list?
 
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