stock removal-files

marekz

marekz

Joined
Jun 16, 2008
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hello: to start ill take a piece of pc ground O1. i OUTLINE IT AND CUT AS CLOSE TO THE fiquere as possible. Now if i dont have a grinderwhat files would i start to use to start the process. do i just file like a flat grind from the spine down. Ill have the edge measured to know how much to take off. ill also be needing a precision file guide right?Im thinking i need to be careful not to mess with the spine during this process. when i file down to desired width then i heat treat and temper?. then i switch to sand paper --60-150-220-400?. then aplly handle. tapering the handle down at the RICCOSO (?)seems to be a challenge since im not using a bolster.Am i way off. can you all give my some pointers. i dont want to use a grinder. i really want to start back with the most simple way to make a knife-thank you so much --mark
 
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well I'm barely qualified to address this, but in my experience for removing steel w/o power tools, it will be easier to buy a bunch of low-grit wet-dry sandpaper and work the steel down to an edge that way, rather than using a hand file. you don't want to get the edge too much thinner than a dime before you heat-treat, then you can sand it down the rest of the way with progressively higher grits, as you suggested. Not sure what you mean about "tapering" the handle at the riccasso, but you will want to use a file for those areas that require high definition, like making a clean plunge line (the drop from ricasso to the blade grind line). Hope that helps.
 
I have a progress (or the lack of it :() thread, here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5927167#post5927167, my jig is on the second page.
Your process sounds pretty good, you could try draw filing, but I found that the jig works well for getting things perfect. If you were to draw file, use a single cut file, mill files work nicely, but for standard filing, any sharp file should do the trick. Tapering might be tricky by hand, at a shallow angle, you notice small things like the flex in the file when adding more pressure. Oh and make sure that you remove all of the scratches from the previous grit before moving on. I know that that is lame to say but it bugs me trying to get scratches out and having to go back a grit.
 
You're basically on the right track. You can start with a double-cut file for the 'hogging', then switch to a single-cut to clean it up. Yes, a file guide is very handy. You can and should do at least some of your sanding before heat-treat. Some folks go all the way to 400 before HT. The pros tell us we don't want deep scratches in the steel when you quench it, they could cause cracking. Be sure to do any drilling before HT.

Keep your files clean! A file card (looks like a wire brush with very short steel bristles) costs about $2. Using it often gets the little chips of steel out of your file's teeth and prevents nasty gouges that are a real pain to sand away.

Have fun!
 
when i said riccosso i meant the indentation that is left after you file/grind. when you remove the precision file guide. i should know the proper name but i couldnt find it-sorry.
i just have a problem thinning out the belly of the blade. I can put the blade in a blade vise and angle down a cut with a file without a really lot a difficulty but then i have a blade with a edge but nothing else. im trying to fiquere out how to slowly taper up from the edge to the spine to sort of thin out the blade. when i try to do that with a file I seem to start messing with the spine and have spots that i dont hit at all. i know lots of practice and patients is needed and i am learning from books. If i just had say a 1/8 blade blank and just put a nice edge going 2mm up would that pass. what would that grind be called. thank you for your patients with this matter. thanks mark
 
marekz said:
when i said riccosso i meant the indentation that is left after you file/grind. when you remove the precision file guide.

...If i just had say a 1/8 blade blank and just put a nice edge going 2mm up would that pass.
Click to expand...

What you're talking about is usually called the "plunge."

In a word, no. Even with thin stock, you'll get a much better-cutting knife if you continue that grind up at least halfway to the spine.

What most makers do is mark the center of the edge with a scribe, and leave "about the thickness of a dime" there to help prevent warping during HT. Next, they make a 45-degree grind on both sides of the blade, down to that thickness we mentioned. That's about what you would get with a 2mm "edge". Then they leave the very edge alone, and continue working the bevel back toward the spine. After HT, they either bring the whole bevel right to the edge, or just sharpen it.

I like full flat or convex edges that go all the way to the spine, they just plain cut better with any given thickness of blade.

This is about as basic as I can explain it. Hope it helps some.
 
Is plunge line the word you are looking for? (edit:beaten to it) I am not sure what you mean about the 1/8" stock. Do you mean a single bevel or scandi grind? if so I think that you would want a shallower grind than that. 3/8"-1/2" would be good.
 
marekz said:
...then aplly handle. tapering the handle down at the PLUNGE seems to be a challenge since im not using a bolster.
Click to expand...

I presume you're talking about a full tang knife, since you want to keep it simple. This is how I assemble full-tang knives without bolsters. Use a drill press if at all possible, to keep things square.

What I do is drill the tang for my pin holes, roughly shape the tang profile, then make sure it's nice and flat. HT the blade as desired.

Then I take my handle slabs and make sure the sides that will face the tang are flat as well. Clamp one slab to the tang, making sure there's more than enough material all the way around, and use the tang as a guide to drill the holes in the slab. Put trial pins in there (no epoxy), clamp the other slab on the tang, and drill, using the first slab and tang as your guide again. This way everything lines up. Again, use trial pins to make sure the whole thing will go together. *

Now dissamble the thing, and reassemble just the handle slabs with trial pins and maybe a spot of super glue. Clamping helps. Now you can shape the very front of the handle without worrying about scuffing up your blade. Get the front done completely, including sanding or buffing to a nice smooth surface. You don't want to mess with it after it's on the blade, you WILL scratch up your blade and get frustrated. Now you're ready to epoxy the slabs on, put the pins in, let it cure overnight and shape the rest of the handle material how you like.

*Get you a copy of "How To Make Knives" by Bob Loveless. He explains this better than I, with pictures. (pics help a lot!) For now you can ignore the parts about tapered tangs and bolsters.
 
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