Stock removal VS. Forging

johnwaynesandw

johnwaynesandw

Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
2,753
I would like to get some info on making a knife. I have been thinking about making a knife for years, but now I think I am ready.I really like the idea of forging a blade myself. From what I understand the molecules align more uniformed when forged. Is this a correct statement? Are there any advantages to forging vs stock removal or vise versa? I am sure there is more of an art to forging vs. stock removal, but I could be wrong. Any advise or info is greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
John
 
You'll read a lot of good and bad information on forging vs. stock removal. I'll say that I don't agree with the statement that forging aligns the molecules, since there really aren't molecules to align, just stacks of atoms. In certain applications, parts will gain from being forged, but I think blades are such simple shapes it's not an issue, unless you're going very primitive and making steel from scratch. Then yes, forging is the only way to go.

Pros of forging:
Material shape - you can use anything you can find, from bar stock to round rods to square bars, ball bearings, etc.
Material Frugality - less steel is wasted when forging.
Versatility - you can shape the knife however you want, but stock removal limits you to what you can fit inside the bar.

Pros of stock removal:

Material choice - there are many of the newer steels, and some old ones as well, that are extremely difficult to forge. These are probably out of reach for 99% of smiths in terms of forging to shape.

Chance of mistakes - this one may just be me, but it has alway seemed that a stock removal maker has few chances to mess up the steel than someone forging, given the same steel. This is completely skill dependent, but feces occurs.

Equipment - all you really need is a file, hacksaw, and some steel to start stock removal. Heat treatement can be done by a heat treating service, to your specifications.
 
Hi John,

There is zero difference in a forged blade and one made using stock removal. If this is a first time experience purchase yourself a section of 1080 1084 flat stock and give it a try.

There are zero molecules in carbon steel, steel is made up of atoms of iron mixed with atoms of carbon. All steel is forged during its processing at the steel mill. So in effect all our blades are forged.

Good luck, Fred
 
Ive been reading tons on this as I started forging my stuff a little while ago, well should say started learning to forge stuff a little while ago. Learning to forge a nice knife will probably take much longer then stock removal (IMHO). Plus with forging you have the ability to screw up your steel pretty easily if you dont do some research before hand. As Fred already mentioned the benefits from forging are already present in modern steel from the factory, back in the day forging was a whole different matter as far as quality goes. Our stuff nowadays is about as good as your gonna get from the factory.

That being said I am gonna keep learning how to forge blades.
 
Did you read the "stickies" at the top of this page? The information could be tremenously useful. Frank
 
I believe forging gives you more versatility over stock removal, Although no physical benefit is gained through forging, in terms of the actual steel.
Edge retention, brittleness, corrosion resistance, all depends on the smith's skill.
But if you were able to make an EXACT replica of a forged blade with stock removal,
You would get the same knife.
Forging takes longer to master, I believe.
After your fourth or fifth stock removal blade, you start to get into a pattern.
I haven't had personal experience with forging, so I can't speak for it.
 
No advantage to forging as far as performance goes. Forging allows for making knives outside the dimensions of a standard bar stock. Also open up more materials that can be used for blade making, like Don's large W2 rounds! Also it sure is more fun than standing at the grinder :)
 
Yes, forging is a lot of fun...........except for this time of year in the South. :D One thing that you CAN'T do via stock removal is make pattern welded steel.
 
Forging lets you use more of the steel you buy in the knife and less on the floor as powder.
 
You need pretty much the same equipment to make the blade when you forge as for stock removal. PLUS an anvil and forge and tongs and a hammer and maybe some other things to make life easier that I don't know anything about. You can do your own heat treat if you forge including the temper or you can send it out. With stock removal you can send the blade out or you can invest in a furnace and do you own heat treat. Since you use a lot of the same equipment to profile and shape a blade for stock removal as you do in cleaning up a blade in forging (files, grinder, vise, etc) it is probably easier, less expensive, and will take less time to start with stock removal and send it out for heat treatment than beginning with bladesmithing. The skills that you learn will be, pretty much, transferable is you continue on.
 
There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods... and soooooo many variables.

All true statements...

Forging is great because you have the opportunity to alter the internal structure with thermal cycling.
Forging is dangerous because you have the opportunity to alter the internal structure with thermal cycling.
Stock removal is safer because you aren't altering the internal structure of the steel.
Stock removal is risky because you aren't altering the internal structure of the steel.

You can make knives however you want to make knives, as long as you educate yourself on the intricacies involved.
 
Thank you all very much for the information and advise. I like the idea of not wasting steel. I guess the best way to learn after reading is to just get out there and try it out. It seems like every time I have bought a knife, I wished something was different about it with the exception on just a handfull. I thought it might be best to invest in some knife making tool instead of another knife.

Another question, I know this could get a wide varity of answers because there are a lot of variables. How long does it take to forge or stock removal a 4 inch blade?

Last question: when using stock removal, is it done before or after heat treating? Does it matter?

Thanks again,
John
 
Grinding before or after HT? Good luck doing it after! You do most of the work before the HT. Leave your edge about the thickness of a dime. That will help minimize warping during the HT. I usually stop grinding at the 400 grit mark and then HT. For the most part your profile and bevels should be just about done before the HT. You will wear out a lot of belts if you have to do any heavy grinding after HT.
 
johnwaynesandw said:
Last question: when using stock removal, is it done before or after heat treating? Does it matter?

Thanks again,
John
Click to expand...

"How long" has too many variables to answer.
grinding before/after heat treat depends on stock thickness, available tools, and how much of a self inflicted masochist you are. :)
most folks grind before, but if you're working with power tools and stock 1/8" or less in thickness, and are very careful not to get it too hot, you can grind bevels after the HT. (it's a LOT easier on you and your tools to do 90% of the grinding while the steel is s till relatively soft, though)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top