Stock Sheath Solution: Feedback Wanted

[DerekH]

I think this is a good idea Tanner.

As for those wanting an injection molded plastic option, a la the BK2, and now 3, you have to consider, while the injection molded plastic part, the sheath itself, probably costs very little, the tooling to make that sheath will cost a crapload, so until they reach a point where they are ready for that for that model, and have a decent enough design, they can't without dropping a ton, money that might be tied up in materials for the next run of knives, new designs, etc...

 

[GODSPEED TACTICAL]

My first thoughts on this is real simple...... sell the knife without a sheath!

That's it..... imagine if you walked into a restaurant and the waiter suggested "You gotta try our enchiladas! Best in the world!"

you say "wow that sounds great"

then then the waiter says "Just don't eat the rice and beans cause they taste like sh!t, pretty much just some crap we threw together in China.... we've only had a couple of customers that like them but they get complained about ALL of the time...... Hell there's even a guy named "Godspeed" that you probably saw outside the restaurant selling mouthwash just to get the crappy taste out of your mouth..... he also sells the best rice & beans in the world!"

You say "Yeah I think my buddy told me about that, I think I'll just take the rice & beans"

waiter: "I'm sorry we can't serve it that way you can only have the enchiladas served on the same plate with the rice & beans".....


-----------this is the point where everything either goes "weird"


A: you complain aloud about the rice & beans and a bunch of random dude's start yelling "Hey holmes.... WTF you don't like the rice & beans? Show some respect Esse!" (NOT what happened here recently, that was a beligerent customer)

B: you eat your excriment sandwich and hold your breath and wait till your outside the restaurant to go see this "Godspeed" guy.

C: you scrape the rice & beans off the plate and enjoy the best enchiladas in town! Cause you already know about "Godspeed's rice & beans".


Every once in a while there's gonna be a guy who already drank too many beers and he'll start talking smack to the waitress about the owner and then those "random dude's" start yelling.... and they have a point because this guy's literally wearing an hat made out of @ss.


I go this restaurant all the time and I've ordered every enchilada they make.... I'm even waiting on a few new ones they're gonna start making.... there's a couple of enchiladas that they don't make anymore and I'm hoping they will some day. Me and all my friends already know about the "rice & beans" issue and we've figured that the enchiladas are cheap enough that it doesn't matter..... as soon as the plate shows up we just scrape that stuff right off into a napkin and never look back.

This is a non-issue to tell the truth.......... and the only way to make it better or "more" custom would be to just serve the enchiladas a la carte! Cause there's no way they're gonna have the best "everything" in the world..... Have you seen Godspeeds rice & beans?


disclaimer: I just woke up so I'm not sure if any of this makes sense.... but I think it might be funny?


Eli


edited to add: "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

 

[Bladite]

i prefer tacos

also, i just throw the sheaths away, they're only for shipping. didn't you know that?

 

[BluesStringer]

Kabar definitely doesn't manufacture the sheaths, and I doubt they have more than cursory input on the design. Even if they do have a fair amount of input though, I'd bet that if the attached liner was their requirement to the manufacturer, Bladite hit the nail on the head with surmising it's a requirement handed down from contract purchasers like the military. If that's true, all the bitching in the world by individual customers won't have any effect on changing the design, cost-neutral or otherwise. That said, it does seem a simple omission in the manufacturing process if there are no contractual requirements for it, though, as Derek suggests, retooling any part of that process could indeed present a cost consideration. Seems to me that it isn't as simple as it might seem on first blush, and there likely is no "cost-neutral" solution to any aspect of the manufacturing process of the sheath.

I personally like that Kabar has maintained the basic sheath design for the BK&T line. It says to me that the sheath doesn't figure into the price of a knife hardly at all, which is fine with me, because if they were producing a relatively expensive Cordura, leather or Kydex sheath, the Spec Ops crowd would never be happy if it was one of the latter two, the leather crowd would never be happy if it was one of the other two, etc.

I get it when someone who gets a blade that has a grossly uneven edge grind complains strongly, or we've even seen examples of the end of a knife taking a noticeable bend 1/2" from the tip IIRC, but the sheath is such a non-issue for me that I don't understand the griping at all. Then again, me griping about other people griping about something which I feel no need to gripe about is just as much a waste of bandwidth I suppose, so carry on.

Blues

 

[texastonydobbs]

do like I did with LMIW before they went out of business .
it was my solo idea to better there product ..... Clevis pin assy.

just pin the insert ,drill hole in sheath & insert add pin assy and cost is very little per unit.
LMIW used it on all there sheathing from then on out and I was compensated with some of their gear LOL

was a gift due to I came up with a solution to fix the pin problem they had instead of using the chicago screw set up.
Sunday September 19, 2010
from LMIW:
We have made a big improvement to the attachment point between the liner and the sewn product. We were using “Chicago screws” which worked well in a laboratory setting. We found however that in the heat of battle (not live fire) we were having our fair share of problems with taking out the liner and replacing it easily in the field (to access paracord, fishing kit, snare wire or anything we wrapped on the liner as it was designed to do). We now are using a 1/4 inch clevis pin with a circle cotter. Much easier to work with cold fingers, sand conditions, or even single handed. A big thanks goes out to Texas Tony Dobbs for suggesting it with our Works Pack. We tested it and found it to be the right fit here as well. So if you’ve already got one of these beauties we’ll be glad to send you a couple - or they are very common at Grainger/Fastenal/etc (1/4 inch by 1 1/4 inch with a circle cotter).

 

[mrn8]

Yeah, I'd like to see it come unsewn, and then if you like it loose, the plastic insert isn't going to come out, anyway. If you heat it up to get a tighter fit, then you pin it or sew it in yourself. We're all big boys, I think we can handle a little creativity.

I honestly don't mind the canvas, at all. It's way better than the green Camillus one's were and holds up to enough abuse that I can wear it out while I contemplate who to order the next sheath from.

 

[C_Tanner]

Kabar definitely doesn't manufacture the sheaths, and I doubt they have more than cursory input on the design. Even if they do have a fair amount of input though, I'd bet that if the attached liner was their requirement to the manufacturer, Bladite hit the nail on the head with surmising it's a requirement handed down from contract purchasers like the military. If that's true, all the bitching in the world by individual customers won't have any effect on changing the design, cost-neutral or otherwise. That said, it does seem a simple omission in the manufacturing process if there are no contractual requirements for it, though, as Derek suggests, retooling any part of that process could indeed present a cost consideration. Seems to me that it isn't as simple as it might seem on first blush, and there likely is no "cost-neutral" solution to any aspect of the manufacturing process of the sheath.

I personally like that Kabar has maintained the basic sheath design for the BK&T line. It says to me that the sheath doesn't figure into the price of a knife hardly at all, which is fine with me, because if they were producing a relatively expensive Cordura, leather or Kydex sheath, the Spec Ops crowd would never be happy if it was one of the latter two, the leather crowd would never be happy if it was one of the other two, etc.

I get it when someone who gets a blade that has a grossly uneven edge grind complains strongly, or we've even seen examples of the end of a knife taking a noticeable bend 1/2" from the tip IIRC, but the sheath is such a non-issue for me that I don't understand the griping at all. Then again, me griping about other people griping about something which I feel no need to gripe about is just as much a waste of bandwidth I suppose, so carry on.

Blues

A) I'd say they have more than a "cursory" level of input being as thought they buy a whole bunch from whoever makes them. What are they going to say, "Screw you Kabar!" Thats their bread and butter.

B) In no way would that be a military requirment. Spec Ops and other brands that cater to the military have removable sleeves. And the military, especially ground troops tend to frown on gear that rattles and makes noise, so if that were the case they'd be molded. That, and the sheath has only one point of retention. So military is not a factor at all.

It's just a plain jane sheath.

As for the earlier post about shipping without sheaths, Moose has already said about 50 times that Kabar has said "NO, NO, NO...Not gonna happen!". So it's pointless to even venture down that path.

 

[orangish ducktape]

I have a Texas Hunt Co. sheath, and the screwed in removable liner is a HUGE difference over the stock sheath. I am also a big fan of the quick attach system, like the tweener sheaths, and I would love to see those on the stock sheaths. Maybe a color option would be nice too.

---

-orangish ducktape

“Simplicate, and add lightness”
-Colin Chapman

 

[trailbum]

Why can't you heat up the liner on a stock sheath and then form it to the knife.
I know the liner doesn't come out.
Would it melt the nylon.

 

[getridone]

pistols don't come with holsters

 

[collecter]

A sheath like the one that comes with the SRK would be ideal. Especially if the was designed to pinch the knife like a kydex sheath does so it wouldn't require the retention strap. Just like the BK2 sheath!

Molds cost money. The finer the surface finish the higher the cost. It's a chunk of money but not millions. I'm guessing per knife design it's probably $50k. Once that's done, the plastic balls to make each sheath costs pennies. They just need to sell enough of them before they see a return.

Only they know how much the BK2 sheath costs them vs the crap sheath.

If you complain load enough eventually they'll listen. Let them know your buying a Cold Steel SRK instead because their knife + sheath combo is more attractive yet it costs less. Competition is good for every industry and promotes improvement.

This is meant to be constructive and for Kabar/Becker's benefit. I gain nothing from this but maybe the guy who buys one in the future might get a better sheath.

All the best,

 

[Bladite]

it will be a cold day in hell before i buy a cold steel product over a becker

i would rather support a good sheath maker as well...

getridone: some pistols come with sheath, but most don't, and many people spend $50-300 for a good one.

so it goes.

collecter: KaBar is more than aware of the issues, does the cost benefit, and adjusts their line as they see fit, with designer input; sheaths? bottom line, probably 99% their call unless the designer is VERY adamant. most customers will not tolerate even a $15 price hike even for a better sheath. but that's my opinion.

$50k is a lot to see a return. currently, i'm going to guess they can acquire a LOT of good enough sheaths for the money in the meantime. i'm sure you're passionate about the idea, but you're going to have to contact them about it, as their participation here is minimal (for a good reason; they're busy making stuff that FLIES off the shelf)

good luck

 

[BluesStringer]

I honestly don't mind the canvas, at all. It's way better than the green Camillus one's were and holds up to enough abuse that I can wear it out while I contemplate who to order the next sheath from.

This triggered a thought about why I might not feel y'all's pain as much concerning the current sheaths. Both of my canvas-sheathed Beckers have the old green sheath, a Camillus 9 and the LE 10, which is a Camillus blank with Tooj's heat treating and Kabar's roll-stamped logo on it. As mrn8 says though, and I tend to agree, the old green ones are more poorly-made than the current black ones (I have seen and handled the black ones, just don't own any).

I didn't mean to come off as contentious about it before, and apologize if I did. All this talk about sheaths the last couple of days got me hankerin' for something new, and since the regular production-run Tweeners aren't a reality yet, I think I'm gonna get some new britches for my 9. Probably Kydex, most likely from Godspeed, but from whomever, it will surely cost more than my 9 cost me 9 or 10 years ago, which was about $50 bucks if memory serves.

I still don't know if Kabar will ever accede to the complaints registered here about their sheaths, but y'all made a good enough case that the stock sheaths (black or green) are such crap, that you convinced me I've been living with crap for too long. Guess that's not what you were going for, but you accomplished something anyway! LOL

Have a good'un.

Blues

 

[Moosez45]

Blues, that's a great post.

I have and Azwelke for my 9, and I'm completely happy with it.

I just got done fondling a Godspeed, and damn, I would have been happy with it. CrimsonFalcon will surely be tickled.

Lots of choices, and none wrong. Good luck, brother.

Moose

 

[GODSPEED TACTICAL]

Blues, that's a great post.

I have and Azwelke for my 9, and I'm completely happy with it.

I just got done fondling a Godspeed, and damn, I would have been happy with it. CrimsonFalcon will surely be tickled.

Lots of choices, and none wrong. Good luck, brother.

Moose

Thanks Moose, Did you wipe it off afterwords?




Glad to hear you like it, and it's going to a good home too.

Eli


RCTanner, I was mostly saying with that statement.......that this can't really be fixed. I get your point and appreciate the input.:thumbup:

 

[Bladite]

I still don't know if Kabar will ever accede to the complaints registered here about their sheaths, but y'all made a good enough case that the stock sheaths (black or green) are such crap, that you convinced me I've been living with crap for too long. Guess that's not what you were going for, but you accomplished something anyway! LOL

no offense, but you people don't read?

KaBar has consistently/constantly adjusted the sheaths over time. i/we keep saying this. over and over

complaints about glass filled super strong ULTRA sheaths? i mean seriously, they made some of the best ever glass filled sheaths. biggest issue? they dull knives (if not broken in). break? never. other issues? omg, sometimes they rattle. self flocking fixes that.

so they switched to plastic. no more dulling. they made them TIGHTER. haven't heard complaints since.

other sheaths? tweaks.

handles? tweaked. nobody noticed for a LONG time.

they even tweak the knives. some people noticed. eventually

BK11 sheaths? been changed TWICE since the first onces. unless you collect, or keep buying, you'd not notice.

so, in summary, they are always working on stuff. hardly static. they don't announce it. they don't apologize. they simply move on. as is just.

 

[BluesStringer]

no offense, but you people don't read?

KaBar has consistently/constantly adjusted the sheaths over time. i/we keep saying this. over and over

complaints about glass filled super strong ULTRA sheaths? i mean seriously, they made some of the best ever glass filled sheaths. biggest issue? they dull knives (if not broken in). break? never. other issues? omg, sometimes they rattle. self flocking fixes that.

so they switched to plastic. no more dulling. they made them TIGHTER. haven't heard complaints since.

other sheaths? tweaks.

handles? tweaked. nobody noticed for a LONG time.

they even tweak the knives. some people noticed. eventually

BK11 sheaths? been changed TWICE since the first onces. unless you collect, or keep buying, you'd not notice.

so, in summary, they are always working on stuff. hardly static. they don't announce it. they don't apologize. they simply move on. as is just.

Umm...I was only talking about the canvas sheaths, as was the OP if I'm not mistaken. Mainly the sewn-in liner, and that's what I was referring to when I said I didn't know if Kabar would ever accede to the complaints registered here. Only glass sheaths I've ever had was all three of my BK2s. Two still walk around in 'em, and one has a custom sheath. I have never complained about a Becker sheath at all in my life, either here or in real life. Was being tongue-in-cheek about them being crap. I SO don't care about factory-made sheaths that I don't even understand myself why I commented in either of these threads. Just bored I guess. Whatever.

Blues

 

[C_Tanner]

A sheath like the one that comes with the SRK would be ideal. Especially if the was designed to pinch the knife like a kydex sheath does so it wouldn't require the retention strap. Just like the BK2 sheath!

Molds cost money. The finer the surface finish the higher the cost. It's a chunk of money but not millions. I'm guessing per knife design it's probably $50k. Once that's done, the plastic balls to make each sheath costs pennies. They just need to sell enough of them before they see a return.

Only they know how much the BK2 sheath costs them vs the crap sheath.

If you complain load enough eventually they'll listen. Let them know your buying a Cold Steel SRK instead because their knife + sheath combo is more attractive yet it costs less. Competition is good for every industry and promotes improvement.

This is meant to be constructive and for Kabar/Becker's benefit. I gain nothing from this but maybe the guy who buys one in the future might get a better sheath.

All the best,

Thank GOD you came to my thread after Moose closed the other one. SOG? COLD STEEL? You aren't even joking are you? Now I know why your name is collecter, because it is obvious you aren't a USER. JFC dude...

"Just let them know I'm buying a Cold Steel SRK?" Why, so I can listen to them laught at me over the phone?

"If you complain load enough eventually they'll listen" You mean LONG enough? Let me be clear (Great, now I sound like Obama!) this thread isn't about complaining to Kabar about their sheaths. It's about offering one teeny tiny little mod that would allow people to form their own sheath if they so choose.

Lastly....I get they you hate the sheath. You've got this entire forum in an uproar and even inspired mysef to create a sigline in your honor. But if you are actually willing to go with subpar knife companies making knives out of steel inferior to 1095CV because of the SHEATH....You need your head examined!

But like I said....your argument proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that you ARE a collecter, not a user. And you don't seem to get that in this forum we SUPPORT Kabar and Ethan, not bitch at them.

I hope you give up this sheath quest in this forum. Because at this point, I SERIOUSLY suspect you are just trolling now and getting a kick out of it. Anyway, enjoy your Cold Steel and SOGs...


Go ahead and close this at the request of the OP. It's going nowhere now.

 

[whereismyclock]

I did a mod for my 7 sheath

I call it kill the old one and get a new

But all jokes aside they do what they were meant to do. Keep the blade out of my skin until I can afford a new one. My favorite thing about these is how they are constantly evolving. Small choil here new leather there. but in the end it's MY CHOICE if I do it or not. I like the removable mould idea, it's a simple cost effective solution. :thumbup: