Stones or Sharpmaker?

R

RigRunner

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
3
First Post - Glad to find this site and all of the valuable information. Anyway, I have several knives that need sharpening.....(Benchmade striker 154CM, Cold Steel MH Carbon V, several Case CV pocket knives, Knives of Alaska LT Hunter D-2 and a few other cheapies). I am planning to get a couple of custom fixed blades in the near future.

I currently have the Lansky Professional Croc sharpener and getting less than satisfying results. I would like to move to stones, but see alot of great reviews for the the Sharpmaker.

If you were starting a sharpening system from scratch, what would you recommend?

Stones?.....if so, can you provide recommendations for mfg and surfaces for all a complete sharpening system. I would also need to get a strop and compund.

or

the Sharpmaker?

I really like the thought of using stones.....more traditional and "hands own" which I enjoy. I have several cheapo knives to practice on.

A quality set of stones is more important to me than the cost, however a $600 Shapton #30000 stone is too deep for my pockets!

Thanks for your suggestions and I look forward to learning alot from the forum.
 
Sharpmaker works good on knives that have fairly decent edges on them to start with. The stones that come with the Sharpmaker are fine grit. If you have an edge that is rather ragged it will take forever to fix it.
Stones comes in all sizes and grits. I would reccomend DMT diamond stones to start or some of the Northon combo stones. With stones you can do any angle you choose, the Sharpmaker is 15 or 20 deg. per side. Diamond stones are easy to care for and the Sharpmaker stones are also so. Just don't drop them on concrete. You can probably pickup several good bench stones for the price of one of the other types of sharpening systems.
 
Welcome RigRunner. Norton crystolon in 2X8" coarse and fine,Norton India 2X8" in med. and fine.Then a ceramic 2X8"in X-fine and a 3"X16" leather strop is all you need.Then pratice.These will last several life times and you'll learn how to obtain a very good cutting edge.DM
 
Thanks for the quick responses. I have several knives that have been neglected over the years and probably need the stones to get back to a working edge.

The Norton stones seem to be a good bit cheaper than the DMT. I suppose the daimond stones increase the cost, but do they sharpen any better or faster to justify the increase in cost?

I am pretty sure I want to give stones/strops a try, so keep the suggestions coming on what stones/strops you use in your shaprneing system to obtain the best edge.

Thanks,
 
If you'd opt for the Sharpmaker, find a good deal on the 204D diamond rods. You really need them in order to make the Sharpie a complete package. I fixed someone's really, really dull antique kitchen knife with it - took me half an hour including the diamond rods but it's scary sharp now and the edge looks the part, too. Altogether, I'm content with the Sharpie but do get those 204D's. :thumbup:
 
So you have the Lansky rod system with 2 angles? This one.

If so, it's a heck of a lot like the sharpmaker, though I have to admit I've never used either. The sharpmaker has lower angles (20 and 15) than the Lansky (20 and 25), so that's a difference. The Sharpmaker seems more versatile since you can use it sorta like bench stones, and sharpen hooks, and scissors.

If you want a "stroke straight down" guided system, I think the sharpmaker is one of the best I've seen.

So that's the real question: Do you want a system like this that predetermines the angles for you, or do you want to learn to freehand sharpen with stones? I think that's what this all boils down to.

Brian.
 
The Norton stones are far more budget minded than DMT and sharpen very close to as quick.You could purchase both the Norton stones previously mentioned which are 2 grit each for the cost of one DMT single grit stone.About 50$.The one ceramic stone will run that as well.The leather strop from your local saddle shop or the leather factory will be cheap.DM
 
The sharpmaker is what I have and it like most stroke down systems is easier to get the angle right with. I do wonder if there is value in using regular stones on some kind of down stroking angle jig. Seriously, it would be pretty easy to make a clamp to the table top angle jig for holding stones while you down stroke. I think to many, the ddown stroke is easier for controlling blade angle, but maybe this is my inexperience speaking.

I don't know why the ultra fine a diamond stones are extras. The diamonds are a must and the ultra fine are nice. In addition, a strop would be nice. Maybe ssome compound for the strop forr speed.

If you are patient and precise, stones are cheaper and have way more options.

Edit: I think you asked why diamonds. . .I have readd that the harder super steels will eat many sttone materials or sharpen slow. Diamonds will cut these, but leave a rougher edge, so you still want to finish with ceramics or the like.
 
Yes,a CO (green) stroping compound is necessary.I've had no problems sharpening the CPM super steels on SiC or AO stones it will easily do it.Check the Mohs chart for info.DM
 
A full set of stones. You get more versatility and speed. You can get some DMT diamond stones for the coarser grits and Shapton Glass Stones for the finer grits. I've seen mirror polished edges from the Shapton 8k so you can stop there. Shapton 16k is useful for razors. I would substitute fine diamond paste for the 30k, because they give similar results.

Sharpmaker is slow at reprofiling, and pretty slow in general compared to freehand or an EdgePro system.
 
nksmfamjp said:
Edit: I think you asked why diamonds. . .I have readd that the harder super steels will eat many sttone materials or sharpen slow. Diamonds will cut these, but leave a rougher edge, so you still want to finish with ceramics or the like.
Click to expand...

I have found that it is actually the softer steels that eat diamond. They grab onto the diamond particles. The diamond stones get finer and finer over time, they don't last as long as ceramic but they still last pretty long. You're not supposed to use much pressure.

Ceramic cuts ZDP-189 just fine, even the softer aluminum oxide. The harder ceramics used in Shapton stones cut any type of steel really fast, almost like diamond except they don't come flat (needs flattening).
 
I like to use a file for heavy edge repair, then use Arkansas stones. I have a set of stones that I paid about 125 for a 4 piece set. Not saying I am the best, but they do work for me and others that I sharpen for.
 
OK, sounds like the stones are the way to go. Forgive me for being a novice, but what exactly is involved in "flattening" a ceramic stone?

I just need to choose between the Norton, DMT, Shapton, etc and then get a strop and diamond paste compund.
 
RigRunner said:
OK, sounds like the stones are the way to go. Forgive me for being a novice, but what exactly is involved in "flattening" a ceramic stone?

I just need to choose between the Norton, DMT, Shapton, etc and then get a strop and diamond paste compund.
Click to expand...

You can use a coarse DMT diamond stone to flatten your ceramic stone. There is the "pencil test" to test for flatness. The DMT stones are consistently flat so they are great for flattening other stones, and they grind really fast. But they are coarser than their grit implies, their finest 8k stone is more like a 4k ceramic stone.
 
For just learning the Sharpmaker and an X Coarse DMT stone can work good to learn the basics. Edges too thick to use on the Sharpmaker can be rebevelled quickly by leaning the DMT stone on the Sharpmaker stone. Then, practice a lot until you get very sharp, burr free tree topping or even hair whittling edges on the sharpmaker. That is how I learned. Using magnification, like my cheap $10 Radioshack 60-100x lighted microscope let you track how your edge is progressing is hugely helpful to learn as well.

After you get proficient there I recommend DMT XX Coarse, Coarse, and Fine (I actually don't use the Fine stone much except for flattening my 8000 grit waterstones) stones in the Diasharp format, and Shapton Glasstones in 1000, 2000, and 8000 grits. I also just ordered a 16000 grit Glasstone, but at 8000 grit the edge is already mirrored and whittling hair. I also use Spyderco ceramics sometimes instead of the Glasstones and I get very good results with them as well, but the Glasstones cut every steel there is while on a very tiny amount of very high hardness steels I have gotten microchipping on the ceramics. The DMT XX Coarse rebevels very fast and also flattens waterstones nicely. The DMT Coarse puts on a toothy, smooth shaving edge and removes the XX Coarse scratches. It also flattens the Shaptons nicely. The DMT Fine leaves a hair popping edge, but I usually skip it if I'm polishing the edge. It works good on final flattening of the 8000 grit stone after you use the Coarse stone to leave a finer surface on that polishing stone. The Shapton 1000 removes DMT Coarse scratches while leaving an extremely sharp, somewhat mirrored edge. If you do your job right it can even achieve hair whittling sharpness. The Shapton 2000 leaves a pretty nice mirror and great sharpness. The Shapton 8000 leaves a great mirror polish and extreme sharpness. I then finish with lapping film over glass in 1 micron, .3 micron, and .05 micron. The 1 micron lapping film is soon to be replaced by my 16000 grit Glasstone. Either way the lapping films remove any remnants of burrs and leave extreme levels of sharpness that can really impress people. Anything beyond 8000 grit is really just for fun, as it is just refining way above and beyond the hair whittling level of the 8000 grit edge.

At this point I prefer benchstones, but I still use the sharpmaker for SE knives and hawkbills. It also comes in handy for quick touch ups when I don't have time to pull out the benchstones. The sharpmaker is the tool that I first got great edges with, and between it and my microscope I really learned a lot about sharpening and how to get very sharp, burr free edges. It is a great system and when paired with a coarse stone to rebevel it is good for starting out. Heck, many of the best sharpeners out there still use it for their best edges. I prefer benchstones now due to being able to use any angle I want and the great selection in grits to use., but there is no denying that the Sharpmaker is an excellent sharpening tool.

Mike
 
RigRunner said:
OK, sounds like the stones are the way to go. Forgive me for being a novice, but what exactly is involved in "flattening" a ceramic stone?

You merely get a fine diamond stone (2X6" is fine)and a pail of water and your new ceramic stone.Go outside,lay the ceramic stone on a flat surface a board or plywood is best.Something that allows you to wedge the stone in place and have both hands free but not interfere w/ the top surface of the stone.Then put ample amounts of water on both stones and start rubbing the
diamond stone against the surface of the ceramic.Back and forth lengthwise.Stopping every 50-100 strokes to check the flatness of the ceramic stones surface.Using the water to rinse off the residue as you work.
Might use a brush to help carry the water and sweep.Stop when it feels right.Really,not much to it.This really eats away at the diamond stone.My black hard Arkansas's did as well.Should take 1-2hrs. if they need it.Position the stone to use upper body weight not just arm strength.DM
Click to expand...
 
Regarding Spyderco ceramics
cotdt said:
They also say that they come flat but it's not true. They need flattening.
Click to expand...

Hmm, while that might be true it seems like flattening them would change them. I read Sal on the Spyderco forums saying that all of their ceramics use the same grit size. Here, let me just cut and past what he said:

---from Sal----
Our diamonds are a 400 mesh (measureable). (600 on the Duckfoot)

Our gray stone is "medium". (Same material as fine but different carriers and heat treat).

Our fine stone is fine.

Our extra fine is a surface ground fine.
---end of Sal quote----

He later said that he had turned a fine into an ultra fine by using a DMT stone to lap it. Which implies that if you lap a fine, you too will turn it into ultrafine. This might also imply that lapping a medium could make it more fine, but probably not the same as fine since the carriers are different.

Strange stuff.

Brian.
 
bgentry said:
Regarding Spyderco ceramics


Hmm, while that might be true it seems like flattening them would change them. I read Sal on the Spyderco forums saying that all of their ceramics use the same grit size. Here, let me just cut and past what he said:

---from Sal----
Our diamonds are a 400 mesh (measureable). (600 on the Duckfoot)

Our gray stone is "medium". (Same material as fine but different carriers and heat treat).

Our fine stone is fine.

Our extra fine is a surface ground fine.
---end of Sal quote----

He later said that he had turned a fine into an ultra fine by using a DMT stone to lap it. Which implies that if you lap a fine, you too will turn it into ultrafine. This might also imply that lapping a medium could make it more fine, but probably not the same as fine since the carriers are different.

Strange stuff.

Brian.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. What is surface ground fine?

Carriers do indeed matter, especially if it is softer then it will leave finer scratch patterns. Does the F and UF use the same carrier?

All I know is that the Spyderco UF is technically a 5000 grit (3 micron) stone that acts like a 12000 grit stone. Weird.
 
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