Stopping the RAPE by Master Cutlery!!!!!

tntbegg

tntbegg

Joined
May 27, 2003
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I had a lovely conversation with Linda Hibben today. Part of our talk covered how to stop or impede the onslaught of intellectual property theft by companies such as Master Cutlery.

We named the dozen or so makers that we knew of personally that have experienced what Todd has so recently had a chance to enjoy. That is, having one of his knives unethically copied, without recompense or licensing. If you are a maker that has not had the pleasure of your hard earned work stolen in this fashion.....don't hold your breathe, and don't shrug it off, because it could be you next.

Linda suggested forming a coalition of makers who could work together bringing a class action law suit to stop Master Cutlery from their on going habit of stealing designs. Any ideas, thoughts, suggestions??

I have a thread in the customs forum showing an example of their latest rape.


Tanya Begg
 
I've been a lurker here for a while and I'm very new to the knife-making game. Echoing what a lot of the newbies say- I really appreciate all of the help I've gotten here; espeacially since you guys don't even know you're helping.

I'm a new to knife-making but I've been attorneying for a while and although this should not be considered legal advice, a class action will probably not work. You definitely need to do what you can to protect your intellectual property but in order to pursue a class action you need to certify a class of plaintiff's. That requires a lot of things but without getting too technical the injury to each plaintiff must be the same or very similar. Typically these cases result from an action on the part of a business or a particular product defect or policy that applied to all proposed class members in a uniform manner. General copyright infringement will not typically rise to this level. There are also a lot of jurisdictional issues that would have to be overcome but, again I don't want to put anyone to sleep.

That said, any individual maker would still be free to pursue the copyright infringement if you could prove that you created the exact design used before the company who stole it. Keep in mind that minor variations make a big difference and there's just not much that can be done about it.

Again, just my thoughts on it, I'm not providing legal advice.

-RD
 
Ronnie Dobbs said:
I've been a lurker here for a while and I'm very new to the knife-making game. Echoing what a lot of the newbies say- I really appreciate all of the help I've gotten here; espeacially since you guys don't even know you're helping.

I'm a new to knife-making but I've been attorneying for a while and although this should not be considered legal advice, a class action will probably not work. You definitely need to do what you can to protect your intellectual property but in order to pursue a class action you need to certify a class of plaintiff's. That requires a lot of things but without getting too technical the injury to each plaintiff must be the same or very similar. Typically these cases result from an action on the part of a business or a particular product defect or policy that applied to all proposed class members in a uniform manner. General copyright infringement will not typically rise to this level. There are also a lot of jurisdictional issues that would have to be overcome but, again I don't want to put anyone to sleep.

That said, any individual maker would still be free to pursue the copyright infringement if you could prove that you created the exact design used before the company who stole it. Keep in mind that minor variations make a big difference and there's just not much that can be done about it.

Again, just my thoughts on it, I'm not providing legal advice.

-RD
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Actually, you have the option of patent, copyright and a rather obscure little theory called trade dress. Although trade dress is harder to prove than the others and may not provide the automtic damages, it will stop them. Trade dress is what makes your product recognizable, like the golden arches at McDonalds, if they were not trademarked. Even with small changes that may get around patent protection, the fact that these knives look substantially like Todd's rather unique looking peices would probably be sufficient. Cost of the action would be the only drawback.
 
Yes, Welcome Ronnie. We very much appreciate your expertise. Stick around and post more.
 
Ronnie, you are right, and thank you for taking the time to post!!

We realize that design patents are worthless, and thats why we never wasted our money trying. But it is in the arena of TRADE DRESS, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND UNFAIR COMPETITION rights that I believe the makers have a fighting chance. Lucky for us, I keep very good records.....

Just because the average maker doesn't have the deep pockets to spend on litigation companies like Master Cutlery get away with theft......its unconscionable!!!!


tanya begg
 
tanya...i wish you todd and all the other makers luck if you decide to do something.....it's horrendous what they do.....and they make millions off of you guys who work hard for your money.....hope u can do something......ryan
 
Hmmmm.... just to play devil's advocate........

I'm not so sure about this. While the name Master Cutlery means nothing to me, I'm concerned about where this is going. It's hard to make a knife that doesn't resemble something that's already been done. Anyone here ever made something resembling a Loveless drop point?

Wanna be sued for it?

This month's Knife World had a full page ad for the "Genuine Fake Cutlery Company". (an April fools joke) Master sounds like something similar, but is anyone seeing them as the real deal?

I support protecting a maker's mark - representing his quality, reputation and insight, but I would not support any move to strengthen the notion of knife design as intellectual property. That's just a slippery slope I don't want to go down. The public deserves reasonable competitive choice and makers shouldn't have to worry if it's ever been done before. :thumbdn:

Rob!
 
I agree that it is hard to come up with a knife design that is not somewhat similar to something that has been done before. However, there is similar and then there are obvious rip-offs. Timing says a lot too when the thieves just happen to come out with clones as soon as a knife becomes popular.

Knock-off companies work on the assumption that the little guy can't or won't spend the time and money to challenge them.

Original knife designs need to be afforded the same protection as an original photograph, painting or sculpture. These are automatically Copyrighted the moment they are created. Further protection can be gained by registering the Copyrights. Unfortunately, knife designs don't specifically fit into any of the standard Copyright categories so we are left with design patents which are expensive, time consuming and pretty much worthless.

A precedent needs to be established to stop the knock-off companies. I applaud and support those who are taking a stand against them.
 
MisterSat................you get a cigar!!! cyberspaceily.

BTW.....cyberspaceily.... That is a word I just made up. I will copyright it, patent it, photo it, mail it to myself, trademark it, license it and anything else I have to protect it from being stolen.:D:D

Tanya Begg
 
Rob! said:
Hmmmm.... just to play devil's advocate........

I'm not so sure about this. While the name Master Cutlery means nothing to me, I'm concerned about where this is going. It's hard to make a knife that doesn't resemble something that's already been done. Anyone here ever made something resembling a Loveless drop point?

Wanna be sued for it?

This month's Knife World had a full page ad for the "Genuine Fake Cutlery Company". (an April fools joke) Master sounds like something similar, but is anyone seeing them as the real deal?

I support protecting a maker's mark - representing his quality, reputation and insight, but I would not support any move to strengthen the notion of knife design as intellectual property. That's just a slippery slope I don't want to go down. The public deserves reasonable competitive choice and makers shouldn't have to worry if it's ever been done before. :thumbdn:

Rob!
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A lot of well known knife designs get "copied" or serve as inspiration for other makers because the original maker doesn't care if they are copied as long as you don't try to pass it off as one of theirs. I think that the problem in this case is that Master Cutlery came to Todd and said "we want to use your designs....lets make some money" Todd said no, so Master Cutlery said "fine......we will use your designs anyway and make money without you" To me, this is almost like a production company making a Loveless style knife and associating Bob's name with it without his permission. This is not a case of a new maker like me being inspired by Todd and trying to make a similar knife. Nor is this a totally ludicrous claim like the ones made by the gentleman indirectly referenced in my signature line...lol.
 
Hopefully someone can answer this: would Design Patents prevent knockoffs from being sold here in the US?

If so, it would mean that we would not be able to stop the Master Cutlery's from making knock-offs, but will accord the knifemaker/company a means to legally protect their intellectual property. They can go after the importers, distributors, and even down to the retailers. Shutting down the US market may not stop them entirely, but it should hurt them in the profit margin.
 
Speaking cyberspacialy,(notice its not spelled exactly the same).Cheap knock-off company will always steal designs,make inferior products and push them on an unsuspecting public.For certain someone will ask Todd if his is a copy of that Master cutlery knife.I think our best option is to make the public aware and push banning their products. (Immitation is a form of flattery)
I'm sure somewhere a japanese Master Swordsmith is rolling in his grave at the thought of those flea market samurai swords.
 
tonyccw said:
Hopefully someone can answer this: would Design Patents prevent knockoffs from being sold here in the US?
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Not effective.
A very slight change would be all that's needed to beat a design patent. It would essentially have to be an exact copy.
I'm afraid the same thing's true about the photo copyright connection. You can't use someone else's photo, but there's nothing stopping you from setting up and taking the exact same photo of your own.

It's very difficult to to define, much less protect a style, feel or look a creative maker like Begg has generated over years of hard work.
 
Good for you for protecting your designs! do you have a link to one of the rip off knives?
"Intellectual Property is the oil of the 21st century"
-Mark Getty
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