straight answers on expensive knives for bushcraft?

[Evolute]

i don't think that there's anything wrong with those knives because if it came down to it, the best knife you have is the one you have on you. personally though, i would prefer a custom from one of the makers on this forum. they are great to work with and, in most cases, a lot cheaper than reeves or busse. i've only had the privilege of ordering from john (stomper on here) and i can honestly say that talking with the maker can be a big selling point. there's something very comforting and personal to know that you can call or email and quickly get a response. not to mention that there are so many makers in this sub-forum and, hey, we're sorta like family and families help each other out. i have a becker necker, but my main go-to blades will always be custom from now on. not that there's anything wrong with reeves or busse. it's just my personal preference.

Again, it's worth pointing out that you can call up Jerry Busse and talk with the maker, and get a quick response.

Also, he and I have talked about poetry, college, love, running a business, etc. He's helped me with knife purchases I might not have been otherwise able to afford. He's eaten with me, laughed with me, given me a warm hug, shown me secret prototypes, and drawn a real treasure map for me.

I can't speak about Chris Reeve, but I can about Jerry Busse; don't assume these makers are less accessible or less family than John, Brian, Richard, or the other makers that hang around here.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

If you carry an axe or machete, a $12 Mora will be better or just as good as any other knife for bushcraft.

G

It is worth it to me to carry a knife that can hold its edge after being battoned through some fatwood and be razor sharp.

However, you make a good point, if you use a Mora in a way that is proper for a Mora (not heavy battoning, sharpen often, and so on) you will be fine.

I don't find myself in a position to carry an Axe often - so one blade is what I need.



With that said, I think the intention of Busse's and other knives mentioned by the OP have different purposes for their design than bushcrafting, and thus do not work well for those applications.

TF

 

[RescueRiley]

I have 10 dollar bushcraft knives..up to about $150 dollar bushcraft knives. fwiw the $10 ones seem to be what I use the most.

 

[SteveK]

Learn and practice your bushcraft knife skills with a Mora. Moras are perfectly good knives, very inexpensive, useful for most tasks, and easy to sharpen. Neither your heart nor your pocketbook will be broken if you lose it. Otherwise, it's fun to own really nice knives, as nearly everybody on this forum will agree.

Users: I have used and like the Fallkniven F1 and any of several Bark River knives as a fixed-blade task knives; the time-honored Buck 110 or the CRK large sebenza (cleaning and maintenance of the CRK is stupid easy); and a small axe or hatchet for chopping chores.

But chopping is a different skill set altogether, whether it's with a knife or an axe. All edged-tool work requires situational awareness, and chopping requires even more because you can really damage yourself, then they'll call you "Gimpy" the rest of your life.

 

[j williams]

Use what works for you no matter the cost or brand or maker.

You can use anything with a sharpened edge and get good results. There is no wrong choice. Wheather its a Mora, or a Skookum, or a Busse. Its all in your personal flavor. Kinda like a handgun. Use what fits you, and what YOU are comfy with. Im sure there are guys who can use a battle mistress better then some guys can use a Ray Mears blade. It doesnt matter what is on your hip. Period. If you have the skills to make it work, then you are good to go. I get tired of people saying blade X is the best because they have good results with it. :jerkit: If that were the case we wouldnt have so many flavors to choose from. Obviously Busses are differant from JKs, just like pepsi is differant then coke. Some prefer coke, some prefer pepsi. Just because someone says Busse isnt a bushcraft blade dont mean Dick. It might be your bushcraft blade, and you might just use the hell out of it. It never ends. As long as there are blades out there you will second guess your choices on tools. Part of the game we play. Just make your decisions for yourself. If you like it, give er a whirl. I for one dislike scandis with a passion. I just cant get into them. Ive tried. Ive owned quite a few. Just not my bag baby.... What I prefer is just that. What I prefer. :thumbup:

Now, stop worryin bout tools, and go outside.

 

[fujita yuji]

There are several things I do not understand exists even within the so-called
bushcraft blades.
For example elaborate decoration on handle or pattern welded steel enhancing it's
contrast by etching.
Such blades looks like they refuse to work.

Anyway, I'm not interested in such things that I'll never handle them in person, not to
mention for obtaining them.

Besides that, I'd love to use a fine piece of work.
I know to make a good thing, it takes some cost.

 

[cjpgeyer]

I have several customs as well as a few Bussekin blades. The Busse family knives I've used as camp knives work well. I would recommend looking at the Busse SAR5, Busse Basic 5, Swamprat Bog Dog, Scrapyard Scrapper5 CG, Scrapyard Mudpuppy LE, Scrapyard Scrapmuk. I have tried many Busses, but these really stand out to me. The basic handles and the mudder grips really make a difference.
I do not reprofile my knives. I just strop mine until the hair jumps off my arm. The Basics with the orig. asymmetric edge cut wood with the least effort of any knife I have used (just be careful...a hot knife through butter has nothing on my Basic 5 ).
The really great thing is we have so many good choices of production/custom makers, you are bound to find something you not only like, but works well for you.
If you really want to give some Bussekins a spin, go over to the Busse forum and see if there are any Hogs in your area, or maybe a GTG or chop in near you.
I had a CR Shadow III; gave it away. Nice knife, really sharp. The handle just did not do it for me.

 

[Rick Marchand]

There are tonnes of budget friendly knives out there than can handle just about any task you throw at them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a $10 knife as your edc as long as it can do what you need it to do.

Rick

 

[banana-clip]

I agree that the thinner knives like Mora make great bushcraft knives and are my favorite knives.

The Busse kin are great knives, but most are too thick for bushcraft except for chopping wood and batoning wood. They make great camp knives. I always have either my SOD, DFLE or CGFBM with me for chopping tasks and my Mora for smaller tasks. I wouldn't have a problem batoning my Mora for smaller wood.

 

[sodak]

I found it interesting that sodak referred to the companies and knife styles that he did as fads. From my perspective, RAT and Ranger knives are simple and durable designs. Maybe from the perspective of this Wilderness Survival forum they are fads, but they seem like tried and true simple designs.

I probably should have been more thorough in my explanation. There's nothing wrong with their designs, but their popularity definitely skyrockets up then down. This forum has always been diverse in the past, but it seems to definitely be taking on a "consensus" nature in the last year or so. I would rather hear the good and bad about designs, steels, heat treat, etc., than not. The debates have tended to get emotional, driving conversation to either a: agreeing totally, b: flame wars, or c: killing a thread with one contrary comment (I've unfortunately done that once or twice). I wish we could see more good, reasoned debate, more back and forth with people agreeing to disagree, but not worrying about it.

FWIW, I totally agree with J Williams - use what you like. If it works for you, then it's good. I think the whole "bushcraft" term is nonsense anyway. My favorite bushcraft knife is either a Vic Huntsman or Farmer. The rest is just gravy - for me. If you like Moras, Kepharts, et. al., more power to you. They all cut! If I meet you on the trail, I'll be happy that you had the forsight to adequately prepare yourself, no matter what your choice is.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I don't know much about bushcraft, but i occasionally see certain higher end brands of knives getting mentioned as tough, or useful for outdoor use.

. . . .

what i don't see much is a mention of chris reeve fixed blades such as shadow III, or another brand, busse.

am i wrong? are they used often and i just missed the posts?

do these actually make good bushcraft knives or it more hype than anything?

. . . .

so, whats your experience with chris reeve and busse? do they deliver?

Don't have experience with Chris Reeve, but I do with Busse.

First, I think the main reason you don't see them much in this forum is because people tend to go for the more "traditional" styled knives. So a lot of it is just looks.

Now if you look at the cost of Busse (when the knives are offered by Busse, not the secondary market) and Bark River, you'll find that similarly sized knives are fairly close in price.

Performance-wise, some of the prejudice against Busse is due to insisting on using the factory edge, the rest is a dose of closed-mindedness.
The factory edges come toothy which, given the chosen use for most of their knives -- combat type duties -- a toothy edge makes sense. It will cut through webbing and such things very quickly, without necessitating serrations. They are, however, not too great for wood. All it takes to make them good for wood is to run a fine stone over the edge followed by a soft Arkansas stone or stropping to polish the edge.

The closed-mindedness comes in a few forms. First is the idea that Busses are "sharpened prybars". Now, Busse does do some limited runs of knives, such as an Active Duty that was something like .320" thick. But those are produced on more or less a novelty basis. Let's tackle this prejudice first. We'll go with the flagship knife, the CGFBM -- Combat Grade Fusion Battle Mistress.

Let's compare it to the Bark River Aurora -- considered by many (including me) to be the perfect "bushcraft" knife:

Very different knives Obviously prejudiced against the FBM. . .or is it?
OK, the Aurora is a convex grind knife, .150" at the spine. The CGFBM, .250" thick at the spine, and flat ground to a 20 degree secondary bevel.
Ah, but the width of the blades. The Aurora is .990" from edge to the spine, the CGFBM 2" from edge to the LOW spot on the scallop. The Aurora is .150" thick at .990", the FBM is roughly .180" thick at .990" from the edge. Not such a difference, eh? In fact, with a smoothed edge, the FBM slices quite well.

Then look at, say, the Hellrazor and Skinny ASH -- both with ~ 6" blades, .187 thick. The RC6 is nearly the same size, but we keep hearing about how great the RC4 is, right? The RC4 is .187" thick, with a flat grind to a 20 degree secondary bevel. The HR and SASH, are longer, but .187" with a flat grind to a 20 degree secondary bevel. Both the RAT blades and Busses are coated. If the RC4 is a good woodcrafter (and also the RC6), then how are the HR and SASH not?

As Rotte mentioned I have a BAD (Boney Active Duty), that I think is very good at Bushcraft (Chopper likes it, too):

1/8" thick, flat ground, tapers distally from scales to point. Nearly identical in blade profile to the RAT RC3. Great slicer, and although it's not rated by Busse for prying doors, it drills, pries and cuts up wood with impunity.

I remember when Swamp Rat had just come out. They had their SR101 (Swamp Rat's proprietary steel) versions of the Busse Basic series (BattleRat, Camp Tramp, Bandicoot, Howling Rat). Everyone on the Swamp Rat was going ga-ga over how great they were in the woods.

So once we get past our "it has to be traditional looking to be good in the woods" prejudice, (a prejudice I was guilty of for a long time) we find Busses are quite fine in the woods.


People may not like the prices, but then that makes me ask why Himalayan Imports blades aren't more popular than they are in WS&S. . .

 

[kgd]

It's been interesting to watch the fads come and go. For a while it was Nessmuks, and also Ranger knives, then Kepharts and Mora/Scandi ground knives. Rat cutlery is getting a lot of attention lately, but I'm sure it will be replaced in a couple of years with something else.

Busse makes very good knives, well suited for the outdoors. I don't find them any thicker than a lot of other brands that are currently popular. Chris Reeves makes good knives also. The fads are cyclical, and the turnover here is pretty high, keep that in mind.

I found it interesting that sodak referred to the companies and knife styles that he did as fads. From my perspective, RAT and Ranger knives are simple and durable designs. Maybe from the perspective of this Wilderness Survival forum they are fads, but they seem like tried and true simple designs.

I'd say both of these statements are correct. First and foremost this is a site about blades and the reality is the survival skills is secondary to that. A quick survey of thread # in a week will confirm that and I'm not trying to be judgemental about it.

We all love knives and most of us have many of them. Fashions and styles do go around, and because we love knives, somebody posts something and talks about its merits and it catches on. A bunch of people start buying and using that knives and it generates momentum for a little while.

I think its fair to say that this process, or fashion, isn't a trivial exercise of what looks good. The fashionable flavours of the month all have good attributes to bushcraft, but as others keep pointing out, there are a wide variety of shapes, styles and sizes that work very well for bushcraft like chores.

As for knife aesthetics - its important to me, because I like knives as functional art tools. There is a point where performance and cost are correlated, but soon after that point it all starts to fall on aesthetic attributes. In the end, I find it hard to fall in love with an ugly knife.

 

[dawsonbob]

Get 'em all, get 'em all, the long and the short and the small. See what works for you. Okay, few of us can afford to do that, although it would be a hell of a lot of fun.

While I drool over a lot of the customs on this board, I actually end up favoring Moras, Condors and Beckers because you get a lot of knife for the money. Like some others, I'm exceedingly poor, and can't afford the high ticket oh-my-gosh-gee-whiz-it's-a... whatever... knives. Fortunately, being poor, or on a limited budget, doesn't mean that you can't get a good bushcraft knife. Look at the type of knife you need, then buy what you can afford. When all is said and done the wood you're working with doesn't know the name of your knife, or what it cost.

 

[Fubarski]

An archaeologist would tell you that all bushcrafting can be done with bone tools, stone tools, bronze tools, etc. Anything "better", like a higher end knife, is just gravy.

How much and what kind of gravy do you want?

 

[hollowdweller]

That's true but most of their models are larger/thicker. I'd think the BAD (Boney Active Duty for those who don't speak Busse) would be a decent bushcraft knife but I've not handled one.

Boney Active Duty is a really nice blade but even though the blade is thinner the grind is inferior for fine cutting compared to anything Bark River or Fallkniven makes.

Also there is sort of a choil notch on the thing, not one you can put your finger in but I guess one to make grinding the last bit of edge easier at the factory which when you are power cutting with the thing that can cause the part of the curve where the edge ends to stick into the wood.

It's a very ergonmic knife IMO and would be a really great knife for field dressing game due to the sharp point and edge that wouldn't roll or chip when hitting bone, but inferior to a Bark River, Fallkniven or even a mora as far as cutting efficiency.

 

[Rotte]

An archaeologist would tell you that all bushcrafting can be done with bone tools, stone tools, bronze tools, etc. Anything "better", like a higher end knife, is just gravy.

I've often had the same thought: homo sapiens has been around for 200,000 years, steel for 1000 years, and O-1 for less than 100 years.

 

[Rotte]

It's a very ergonmic knife IMO and would be a really great knife for field dressing game due to the sharp point and edge that wouldn't roll or chip when hitting bone, but inferior to a Bark River, Fallkniven or even a mora as far as cutting efficiency.

I'll disagree with that statement. The BAD starts thin, is a full flat grind that ends in a secondary bevel (mine is slightly convexed after free-hand sharpening). It cuts very well. If anything, I'd say it role is more limited to fine cutting. The ergos are pretty good, but in a reverse grip the handle has a tendency to dig into my palm.

I also don't like the choil. But you can't have everything.

 

[Masteroffajitas]

Nevermind.

 

[hollowdweller]

I'll disagree with that statement. The BAD starts thin, is a full flat grind that ends in a secondary bevel (mine is slightly convexed after free-hand sharpening). It cuts very well. If anything, I'd say it role is more limited to fine cutting. The ergos are pretty good, but in a reverse grip the handle has a tendency to dig into my palm.

I also don't like the choil. But you can't have everything.

Yours must have a thinner grind than mine. When I put mine up against my Bark Rivers or say the Koster Bushcraft, Skookum or my Nessmuks, it is at the bottom.

Mine is a better slicer than the Bark Rivers or Fallkniven because the BAD has a thinner blade but not a more efficient cutter.

 

[udtjim]

I have just started using this small Busse and am getting a review together to post soon comparing it to several other Bushcraft type knives.