Straight razor stropping compound?

[Razoredge1998]

I've been looking at a few sites and reading up on some stuff, as I'm pretty new to sharpening and straight razor usage. I recently ordered a 10k grit stone for honing my edge, but decided to look into stropping compounds as opposed to plain leather. I came across 0.1 micron compounds which are comparable to 160k grit. I'm not exactly sure if I could/should go straight from my whetstone to stropping at that grit, or if I should set up a few strops with lower grit/higher micron compounds and work up. I want the cleanest and sharpest edge I can possibly get, but that gap seems too big a jump right from the stone just looking at grit numbers. At first I thought of I could find something closer to a 50k grit, but went down a rabbit hole and got myself confused. It seems like every company has very different statistics for their pastes and compounds. Any recommendations or suggestions are welcome.

 

[gadgetgeek]

The big question is your budget, both cash and time. What you don't want is to over-do anything, since that will start giving you false results and confusing shaves. Get good at one thing at a time, 10K and bare leather will be a good starter, but there is a long rabbit hole of strop compounds which will make it harder to hone your razor if over-used. So a couple baseline things to keep in mind:
Hones need to be pretty flat (not factory flat, flatter than that, the flatter the better) lapping hones takes life off them, even if it's a couple thou of an inch at a time, so be mindful of that, but hone wear will impact how a razor reacts, less critical if you have one razor, more so if you have a few of differing sizes.
Compound grit level is a minor factor, grit consistency is the major one. If you have a 1 micron grit that is rated at it's average, it will act very different to one that is 1 micron max, or 99% 1 micron. To a large degree you get what you pay for. Once a strop has a compound on it, that's what it is, there is no changing. Razor compound is not wood chisel compound (yeah, I've stropped my razors on lee valley green, but I would not expect the same performance as a razor maker's green crOx powder.) And there is "Okay" and there is "Good" when it comes to shaves.

Razors are all about the bevel, strops impact the edge and the leading part of the bevel, creating a convex over time, this can be good or bad, but it slowly eliminates your baseline and adds variables. Wanting best and sharpest is natural, but until your blade handling skills get up there, and your beard prep is really good, you are just asking for trouble to push too far too fast. Take time, grow into it, it's a lot of skills to learn all at once, There is a reason that back when Barber-Surgeons were a trade we knew shit all about medicine, running a razor well is huge skillset, and even if you keep the face as a constant, you are dealing with a lot of variables at every shave that have to be learned so they can be adjusted for.

 

[Razoredge1998]

I actually just got started, and I'm realizing my blade handling is pretty decent thus far. I inherited a couple really dull straight razors that were left in a drawer for decades from grandparents, and I've restored the edges working on 1k 5k and 8k stones, and I've been stropping with plain synthetic leather. I'm able to get a decent shave with it, but not the best. My prep isn't that good, but I'm working towards getting everything for that.

Right now I'm on a shoestring, as I'm going through schooling this year for cosmetology (planning for a triplicate trade certification in cosmetology, esthetics, and barbering). I'm not getting the best quality and I'm well aware that my stones likely won't last all that long because they're definitely not the best. Currently I'm able to get an edge on my razor that will cut the hair on my arm with next to pressure, but not plink through suspended hair. I'm hoping the 10k will provide me a better honed edge than the 8k, but mainly looking at advice for the future.

I've been mainly learning through YouTube to get to this point, but once I have the budget, I think maybe a 0.5 max and a 0.1 99%/ max diamond emulsion on stationary leather opposed to suspended leather would be best for me. Right now I'm just working to get the essentials at baseline. I'm planning to save for a 12k naniwa stone, but looking at the different stropping compounds made me think that it might be a more affordable way to get to that point with lower startup costs, as I have access to enough synthetic leather to make a few different strops for different grits.

I know getting my skin prep and shaving technique better will serve me well. I've just got a nagging feeling that my blade could be a lot better.

 

[gadgetgeek]

It's tempting to blame the blade, but you should be able to get a shaving edge off clean leather and an 8k norton waterstone. Not the best ever, but a good, clean shave, better than most cartidges.
Now when I say that blades and stones wear, I should preface that for most people the learning curve puts a lot of wear at the beginning, and for guys who spend a lot, they can wear a lot out. But with just a couple similar razors, any reasonable waterstone (norton, naniwa, chosera) will last decades, just not be a hand-me-down to the next generation.

Make sure that you are really getting that bevel set at the 5k level. Basically, because the edge is so fine, a very fine stone cannot cut away enough steel to get a good apex, and it will start to burnish out a "feathered edge" what knife guys often call a wire edge, which feels super sharp for a pass or two, but quickly breaks away and dulls fast. Remember that these old steels are very small or no carbide, and so they do sort of "flow" a lot more than we think about with knives at higher angles and courser grits. Look up Pyramid honing pattern, or method, and see if that changes your results.
Save for the 12k, that's worth doing, but it's not going to do the same thing that the diamonds will. To be fair, I think you would be just as well served by high quality chrome oxide if you can get it at a good price, since you still have a lot of skill curve to go through, and with older carbon steel razors, the diamonds will not be hitting their full potential. You want stuff right now that you are willing to experiment with and learn from, not anything so expensive as to be precious and not used. Compound will change your edge, but it does so with a cost and diminishing results over time, but again, it doesn't do the same thing a stone does.

Also, keep in mind (and I know you will know this as soon as you read it) one person's hair is not the same as another's. Hanging hair tests are kinda pointless unless you compare to yourself. They can be consciously or unconsciously gamed, and some hair just will not free-hang cut. If it feels good to you, if it is a valid comparison for you, use it, otherwise, what someone else says can be easily and quickly ignored.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

G gadgetgeek

I know I'm in the wrong forum......but, as a Maker (knives, not razors),
Hopefully I'm not butting in on the OP?

I wanna keep making improvements.

I make edc, butcher, camp, and general Bad Ass blades. Clean and classic, almost boring.....I'm told they are some of the best, sharpest, and highest performing.


I hand grind my bevels on various bench stones, after my belt grinder.
After a buddy asked me to sharpen his k390 steel knife, I went out and bought the finest Aroma diamond bench plate..... That steel was a pain, and it was super dull, no edge. Took me literally days of working on it. I scratched the shit out of it, but actually got it pretty sharp, Finally.

My personal final finishing program was to end with a Gossman sharpening steel.
Idk if you know what those are, but I really like it.
It's supposed just a bit more aggressive than a strop.

So, my conclusion is where do I go from here?
I tied using my belt. Both hanging, and against a board.... I don't think I get good results. I tried cardboard, nothing good too.

Recently I tried stropping on wood, and I noticed improvements.
*My knives are already convex, so I think the hard, flatness of the wood helps me?
Now I'd like a good, basic all around compound?

I use very hard, high alloy steels.
I probably need diamonds?

Idk Anything about which grits, I'd like to only get one. I'm not interested in progression. I don't think. I'm hoping I don't have to.
Again, I'm "just" making knives..... Hahs. Thanks again for any direction, or help

 

[garry3]

I've been looking at a few sites and reading up on some stuff, as I'm pretty new to sharpening and straight razor usage. I recently ordered a 10k grit stone for honing my edge, but decided to look into stropping compounds as opposed to plain leather. I came across 0.1 micron compounds which are comparable to 160k grit. I'm not exactly sure if I could/should go straight from my whetstone to stropping at that grit, or if I should set up a few strops with lower grit/higher micron compounds and work up. I want the cleanest and sharpest edge I can possibly get, but that gap seems too big a jump right from the stone just looking at grit numbers. At first I thought of I could find something closer to a 50k grit, but went down a rabbit hole and got myself confused. It seems like every company has very different statistics for their pastes and compounds. Any recommendations or suggestions are welcome.

You will need to go through a progression.

There are those that use loaded balsa wood strop progressions charged with diamond spray, and lapping film is also a popular alternative. These are budget friendly alternatives that produce ultra sharp edges that some love or think they need. My understanding is if you shave off of these you do need a highly refined edge because of the comfort aspect.

I'm not familiar with the products or even use them so I won't give any advice on them. Hopefully someone that is will chime in, if not google will be your friend here.

 

[gadgetgeek]

G gadgetgeek

I know I'm in the wrong forum......but, as a Maker (knives, not razors),
Hopefully I'm not butting in on the OP?

I wanna keep making improvements.

I make edc, butcher, camp, and general Bad Ass blades. Clean and classic, almost boring.....I'm told they are some of the best, sharpest, and highest performing.


I hand grind my bevels on various bench stones, after my belt grinder.
After a buddy asked me to sharpen his k390 steel knife, I went out and bought the finest Aroma diamond bench plate..... That steel was a pain, and it was super dull, no edge. Took me literally days of working on it. I scratched the shit out of it, but actually got it pretty sharp, Finally.

My personal final finishing program was to end with a Gossman sharpening steel.
Idk if you know what those are, but I really like it.
It's supposed just a bit more aggressive than a strop.

So, my conclusion is where do I go from here?
I tied using my belt. Both hanging, and against a board.... I don't think I get good results. I tried cardboard, nothing good too.

Recently I tried stropping on wood, and I noticed improvements.
*My knives are already convex, so I think the hard, flatness of the wood helps me?
Now I'd like a good, basic all around compound?

I use very hard, high alloy steels.
I probably need diamonds?

Idk Anything about which grits, I'd like to only get one. I'm not interested in progression. I don't think. I'm hoping I don't have to.
Again, I'm "just" making knives..... Hahs. Thanks again for any direction, or help

I'd say the maker's section would know a lot more. Most razor steels are a long way from K390 in most ways, so anything I know is likely to not be helpful. But there are guys there who've done the math, so I think they'd be able to help more.

 

[gadgetgeek]

You will need to go through a progression.

There are those that use loaded balsa wood strop progressions charged with diamond spray, and lapping film is also a popular alternative. These are budget friendly alternatives that produce ultra sharp edges that some love or think they need. My understanding is if you shave off of these you do need a highly refined edge because of the comfort aspect.

I'm not familiar with the products or even use them so I won't give any advice on them. Hopefully someone that is will chime in, if not google will be your friend here.

Those are some good thoughts, I think the main thing to always keep in mind is that a lot of stuff that is "cheap" early on doesn't scale well. I've used lapping films, and while they are very good for what they do, it can be a very expensive way to get things done. They are better for experiments and testing I think, but so long as someone is finding good sources and not nickle and dimeing themselves, it has value. The good thing with the films is that if you have a decent piece of glass, that's all you need for a substrate. The main thing is to have a good baseline to work from so that you can isolate variables. I've stropped on all kinds of stuff and have talked to guys who've finished edges on newspaper and cigar ash, but you need to have a repeatable starting point to know if what you are doing is improving things or just being "different"

 

[garry3]

Those are some good thoughts, I think the main thing to always keep in mind is that a lot of stuff that is "cheap" early on doesn't scale well. I've used lapping films, and while they are very good for what they do, it can be a very expensive way to get things done. They are better for experiments and testing I think, but so long as someone is finding good sources and not nickle and dimeing themselves, it has value. The good thing with the films is that if you have a decent piece of glass, that's all you need for a substrate. The main thing is to have a good baseline to work from so that you can isolate variables. I've stropped on all kinds of stuff and have talked to guys who've finished edges on newspaper and cigar ash, but you need to have a repeatable starting point to know if what you are doing is improving things or just being "different"

Films and loaded strops isn't my thing but I know a lot of new guys go for the low startup cost and it works for them with some experienced shavers even preferring those edges. It does seem to me that beginners in particular get along better with ultra sharp razors.

Do you think it's easier for a new guy to get good edges going that route?

 

[gadgetgeek]

I did a lot of things wrong when I got started and for the most part it still mostly seemed to work out (but I've been accused of being bullheaded more than once). I switched to DEs just because of time and also going to a full head-shave. I think for me it's more about knowing the value you are getting. If you are buying expensive film one sheet at a time because you only have a few bucks a week, at the end of the year you might have been able to get a decent high-grit stone. Or if you just want to play with a couple blades and want to try a lot of different things, then it's a whole other story. I also have talked to a lot of guys who had that process lead them down the garden path and made them question what their actual problems were, as it's hard to troubleshoot various techniques when you are not following the same program as everyone else. If a large group of very knowledgeable people say that a shaving edge can be had from clean leather and a norton 8k, and you cannot get a good edge, then there must be a problem, is it a bad razor, bad technique or bad shaving? Who knows, but at least if you have that as a baseline, you can work out problems. I wasted a lot of weeks with bad compound and printer paper on cardboard, along with seatbelt webbing and bad leather, when in reality I probably had a decaying edge on one razor and bad lathering/technique in general. It was a learning curve, but I can see someone in the same place getting frustrated and giving up. To be clear, I'm also not "super good" and most of what I need to work on now would be shaving technique if I was to grab my straights again, so I'm not an expert. I worked on as low a budget as I could at the time, and I can see now that some of what I thought I was saving money on, I really wasn't, but also, some of that knowledge became useful later. The main thing is that there is not just one way to do it, and if it's a hobby where funds are not a big deal, there is room to play. If however it's both a hobby and an attempt at not spending as much on razor cartridges, then the expectations need to change just a little. I've never gotten an edge as clean as a brand new Feather DE blade, but I did get several years of very passible shaves for the cost of a few packs of cartridges, and an average straight shave is still better than a cartridge trying to get one more shave in before payday. Valuing things is hard, it's better to treat straights as a hobby and just for fun.

 

[Kentobentos]

After a Jnat or coticule .5 and .25 micron CBN on hanging leather will bring the edge to light saber sharpness while maintaining the comfortable natural stone edge. Something about the droop in hanging leather work great for me as opposed to flat leather.

My philosophy is a bevel set on a 1000 should treetop hair off your arm. After that going up in grit just refines the edge. Then the stropping compounds brings keenness up a notch.

 

[gadgetgeek]

After a Jnat or coticule .5 and .25 micron CBN on hanging leather will bring the edge to light saber sharpness while maintaining the comfortable natural stone edge. Something about the droop in hanging leather work great for me as opposed to flat leather.

My philosophy is a bevel set on a 1000 should treetop hair off your arm. After that going up in grit just refines the edge. Then the stropping compounds brings keenness up a notch.

That's very likely true, but where I am, by the time you have a decent-sized natural stone, a strop and .25 cbn, well, I can put a set of shoes on my SUV, take a very long weekend camping, or add to my home deposit fund. Not to say that any of that is wrong, but I'm not doing it with a couple of long shifts worth of overtime on a week where I had nothing better to do. I may be stretching it a bit, but only for artistic licence, sure once you have it, you have it for life, but that buy-in price right now is steep, if someone doesn't have a big toy budget. One of the biggest fissures when SRP was going was guys trying to have a good enough for daily shave rig for as cheap as possible (guys who had to count cents to make their home budget work) and guys who would get the best edge money could buy. Sure most of us are not at those extremes, but it's important to know which side you are talking too, since that changes how you go about stuff. I remember more than one guy trying to get into straights to save cash, but having a "clean face" work requirement, so needing a way to shave every day. Then there were guys who could take a week to hone a razor and just shave for Friday night. My point is that its worth remembering that what is one guy's hobby is another guy's life requirement. We all do it with different things, and it's hard to see from someone else's POV, but it's important that we do, or we cannot share good info. Again, you are not wrong, but if you stack all the cards in your favor, then things better well be working right.

 

[Kentobentos]

That's very likely true, but where I am, by the time you have a decent-sized natural stone, a strop and .25 cbn, well, I can put a set of shoes on my SUV, take a very long weekend camping, or add to my home deposit fund. Not to say that any of that is wrong, but I'm not doing it with a couple of long shifts worth of overtime on a week where I had nothing better to do. I may be stretching it a bit, but only for artistic licence, sure once you have it, you have it for life, but that buy-in price right now is steep, if someone doesn't have a big toy budget. One of the biggest fissures when SRP was going was guys trying to have a good enough for daily shave rig for as cheap as possible (guys who had to count cents to make their home budget work) and guys who would get the best edge money could buy. Sure most of us are not at those extremes, but it's important to know which side you are talking too, since that changes how you go about stuff. I remember more than one guy trying to get into straights to save cash, but having a "clean face" work requirement, so needing a way to shave every day. Then there were guys who could take a week to hone a razor and just shave for Friday night. My point is that its worth remembering that what is one guy's hobby is another guy's life requirement. We all do it with different things, and it's hard to see from someone else's POV, but it's important that we do, or we cannot share good info. Again, you are not wrong, but if you stack all the cards in your favor, then things better well be working right.

Agreed as there are more than one way to skin a cat. Honing a razor is just rubbing steel on a rock in the end. OP asked about compounds, I answered.

 

[Gliden07]

I know this is an older thread but there us a guy he specializes in Straight Razors and will sharpen as a service but will also sell stones, compounds etc.... Name of the company is The Perfect Edge. The gent that owns the place is named Howard Schecter. Wealth of knowledge when it comes to sharpening things!!

 

[Mejnoon]

Been a while since I honed a razor but I used to finish on .5 micron chromium oxide - gave a smoother shaving edge than .25 micron diamond paste.