Straight Razors: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Dave Rishar]

Interesting stuff, Steve. Good link.

Yesterday, after more than half a year of stubbornly refusing to cut my hair, I went to a barber shop down in old town to get rid of the mop. Toward the end, the barber said, "I'm going to do your neck now. Razor okay, young'un?"

"Razor's fine," I said. "I use one on the front of my neck already. I picked up an old Zartina off of Ebay and I've been shaving with that for a little bit."

"Is that right?" she said, eyes lighting up. I guess that barbers approve of this. What followed was a lot of advice about what size to use, what brands are good, how to hone, how to strop, where to get supplies, etc. If I'd remembered a quarter of it I'd be damned handy with a straight razor right now.

So there ya go...if you're ever wondering how it works, check with the barber. (If they don't use a razor, they're not a barber. They're a stylist.)

 

[Svashtar]

I found an old time barber, been in the same place for over 30 years in east salinas. Now a bad part of town, but once very middle class. He's a great guy. Uses a 4/8 with a comb to trim the back of my hair.

Since shaving with the razor Sarge sent me I've gotten a lot better. I still take a good 10-12 minutes to do the job right, but as of yesterday I can get completely shaved, including my chin and jaw line which I never thought I would get. On the chin I end up using just the first 1" of the blade or so, except in the very middle I use the middle of the blade.

I also find I do a _much_ better job by switching off hands, using my weak left hand for the left side of the face. For some reason that angle is much easier for me and I do a better job on the left almost than the right.

I think Howards got the right idea on the strop from all the reading I've done, and personally I'm not putting any compound on the strop at all. I also have been stropping just once a week which has been working out fine.

The hardest thing for me was to learn the correct way to strop; I thought I knew but had been doing it wrong, as you always have to roll the razor over on its spine when going to the other side, never over the edge which is how everyone naturally wants to do it.

BTW, I finally cleaned my old badger brush using some of the cleaner packs that are sold on Classic shaving, and what a difference. I've had that brush 20 years and it was pretty loaded up I guess, especially as I didn't have a stand. Got a nice wood stand and refinished it, opened up the mouth a bit first as my brush is pretty wide, and then cleaned the bristles and it's like a new brush as far as how it works and feels.

Once I get work again I have my eye on a Henckels to go with the nice one that Sarge gave me. His is a 6/8, so I'm thinking of trying either a 7/8 or a lighter 5/8 and see how it handles in comparison.

Guess it sounds silly to those who view it purely as a chore, but I enjoy the hell out of the routine now. Once I get back in the work groove I'll have to do it the night before, but still it will be my time. Another good thing that came out of the forum here. :thumbup:

Norm

 

[Svashtar]

Three videos on Shaving, Honing, and stropping.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7466711741780429878

Steve

Gee, thanks Steve! I looked all over and hadn't found those. I can say watching this guy that what I learned on my own very closely matches what he does, EXCEPT, I am no way near that fast on the chin, don't cross the chin with my right hand, but switch to the left, and haven't even attempted going up against the grain. How he maintains that angle is beyond me.

My stropping matches very well on the super slow strokes. Maybe in a few years I'll get to that fast speed! I also wish they would have mentioned what kind of honing stone and lube was being used there. I'm just going to use my Dad's old Black Hard Arkansas and oil when the time comes.

Thanks again, I learned a lot watching this guy.

Norm

 

[Sylvrfalcn]

Gee whiz, you guys are liable to cuss and throw rocks at me, but I hope y'all get a kick out of this one anyway. Y'all know that I have a love of things homemade, rustic, and "old timey", stuff that really does what it's supposed to do. Well, pictured below is what I shaved with this morning. It's blade is hammer forged high carbon tool steel (file), that was fastidiously hardened and tempered, then painstakingly ground, polished, and honed to a delightfully smooth shaving edge. It's handle is from a solid block of curly maple, slotted by hand with a saw, and featuring a single peened rivet of brass rod that acts as the blade pivot. With the exception of using an electric grinder instead of a pedal cranked sandstone wheel, there is no technology in this razor that didn't exist several centuries ago.
The razor functions flawlessly, and has a look and feel to it that you just can't buy, not even on E-bay. I don't much settle for "storebought" knives anymore, so why should I settle for a storebought razor?

Sarge

 

[Svashtar]

Damn Sarge! That is really something! You know you have about a $400 or $500 razor there. That's what Thiers-Issard was charging for their own limited forged razor with the rough spine like that.


See it here and scroll down for the closeup:

http://www.classicshaving.com/catalog/item/1523551/977932.htm


You did all the work? How in the world did you do the hollow grind? Especially in the hardened steel?

Finally, do you have an electric forge, one of those paragon units, or what? Just trying to figure out what you guys are using as I have been toying with the idea of melting metal on my own.

(Question: do razor mfrs. grind the blanks _before_ hardening to make the job easier? I know for certain they drill the pivot holes before hardening.)

That is impressive as hell. How does it shave? Well, I guess you already answered that one.

BTW, last question: isn't that the one you were supposed to send on to me?

Norm

P.S. Congrats on post 3500 :thumbup:

 

[Sylvrfalcn]

Damn Sarge! That is really something! You know you have about a $400 or $500 razor there. That's what TM was charging for their own limited forged razor with the rough spine like that. You did all the work? How in the world did you do the hollow grind? Especially in the hardened steel?

(Question: do razor mfrs. grind the blanks _before_ hardening to make the job easier? I know for certain they drill the pivot holes before hardening.)

That is impressive as hell. How does it shave?

BTW, last question: isn't that the one you were supposed to send on to me?

Norm

Uh Norm? First off, it's a five dollar razor, that's about the extent of the material outlay. Got about eight hours total work in it, but that don't tally, 'cause if I weren't hammering steel, I'd just be whittlin', watering my garden, or sitting in the shade with a cold beer anyway. So it might look like an expensive razor, and danged if it don't shave just like an expensive razor, but it's just another classic example of the old "Po' Boy's" dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

Ground the blade and drilled the tang prior to hardening. You can do hollow grind on a grinding wheel, long as you've got a steady hand. Speaking of hardening/tempering, something I read about Thiers Issard prompted me to "experiment". Seems they temper their blades at 300 degrees. I was kind of skeptical as 300 degrees doesn't even really produce a noticeable color change in the steel (unless you look close in good light). I just knew the edge was going to be too hard and brittle to be any good, but figured what the heck, I can always re-temper it. No need, that paper thin edge is harder than the edge on any of my knives (around 62 RC by my estimate), but dadburn does it polish on a strop to an edge bordering on the supernatural. Besides, you don't whittle with a durn straight razor anyway. Thanks Thiers Issard, I've been looking at the "evidence" for years and years, but was too dumb to understand it. What am I talking about? How many old straight razors y'all seen with chipped edges? Now, how many old straight razors y'all seen with turned edges? Conclusion, heat treatment/temper so dadgum hard as to be plumb brittle.

How does it shave? Well, when I shaved with it yesterday morning, I couldn't tell I wasn't using my Thiers Issard or my Henckels, so it does all right I reckon.

Sarge

p.s.: in case any razor afficionados are wondering as to it's size, it's a 6/8

 

[ferguson]

Sarge, You never cease to amaze me. :thumbup:

Steve

 

[TomFetter]

Email sent on the ... oh dang, I forgot. You're not a professional knifemaker ... or razor maker ... or ... Great impersonation routine you have there.

Very pretty indeed. I love that rough, hammer-finished spine.

 

[Howard Wallace]

I'm looking forward to next time.

I enjoy the hell out of the routine now.

Sarge,

Your magnificent work

Gee whiz, you guys are liable to cuss and throw rocks at me, but I hope y'all get a kick out of this one anyway. Y'all know that I have a love of things homemade, rustic, and "old timey", stuff that really does what it's supposed to do. Well, pictured below is what I shaved with this morning. It's blade is hammer forged high carbon tool steel (file), that was fastidiously hardened and tempered, then painstakingly ground, polished, and honed to a delightfully smooth shaving edge. It's handle is from a solid block of curly maple, slotted by hand with a saw, and featuring a single peened rivet of brass rod that acts as the blade pivot. With the exception of using an electric grinder instead of a pedal cranked sandstone wheel, there is no technology in this razor that didn't exist several centuries ago.
The razor functions flawlessly, and has a look and feel to it that you just can't buy, not even on E-bay. I don't much settle for "storebought" knives anymore, so why should I settle for a storebought razor?

is it's own best argument giving the counterpoint to your earlier statements.

An HI razor? Would it be worth the kamis time and trouble? We may think so, but would they think so? Getting a perfectly symmetrical double hollow grind on a blade, with a lazer beam straight edge, is a real pain in the ass grinding by hand, been there done that. The mass production guys have marvelous grinding machines that grind both sides of the blade simultaneously, with a perfect result and a perfectly straight edge each and every time. And, due to automation, numbers produced, etc., they can keep their prices low and still show a fair profit. That's what we'd be asking the kamis to compete with. Yes, I know, mass produced doesn't have the "soul" of handmade, but let me put it another way. The world is absolutely teeming with custom knifemakers.
How many of them boys are cranking out handmade straight razors? Why not, if a market for such truly exists?

Yes, I'd like to see an HI razor, and I'd like to own one, but I felt it only fair to present the "other side of the coin". The kamis specialty is khukuris, and they make 'em better than perhaps anybody in the world could. However, I've got a brand new, shave you right out of the box, double hollow ground razor, made of cast crucible Sheffield steel, heat treated in molten lead, and made by a company that's been making razors for 122 years, that I know in my heart the kamis can't even come close to. Nossir, not even close. Are we being fair asking them to try? Especially when excellent antique razors out of Sheffield, Solingen, etc., can be had all day long for less than a case of beer? My Wade and Butcher, certified as Civil War era, and in very good to excellent condition, set me back the princely sum of sixty whole dollars, but that was just sentimentality on my part, I later picked up a really nice Wade and Butcher at a gun show for twenty. Just out of curiosity, what y'all reckon the HI razor would sell for? Would the price be competitive while still fairly compensating the kamis for their time and trouble hollow grinding razors by hand?

I don't like being a wet blanket, but anytime we set about asking the kamis to chew what we bite off for 'em, well, we need to, out of fairness to them, look at all the angles first. I knew the Rusty Sgian Dubh would turn out well, 'cause it's just a differently shaped knife and they're damned good at making knives. A razor, a folding knife, with a blade deeply hollow ground down to a paper thin and perfectly straight edge, would be somewhat of a departure for them don't you think? I'd buy one out of loyalty to HI, but I already own better razors than they have the means to make, and cheaper than they could afford to sell 'em, so loyalty is all it would be. Bottom line, I don't see this as a portion of the market that it would be profitable for HI to exploit, as opposed to the sgian dubhs, which, if made in an unmarked version, would be incredibly competitive and marketable. Just need to tap into that particular market and watch the knives fly off the shelves. Cool factor aside, the kamis got to feed their families. If they went to the time and trouble to crank out some handmade straight razors, it'd be mostly just 'cause we asked 'em to, so put me down as respectfully opposed.

I love it when guys don't make me go to the trouble of arguing!

 

[Sylvrfalcn]

Labor pains don't interest me Howard, show me the baby and we'll talk.

Sarge

edited to add: Dadgum that dadburn blankety blank hand forged razor, I'm as whiskerless as a cue ball!! Oh well, if Black Bart could pull off the clean shaven look, I reckon it won't hurt me. Besides, I'm headed home lickety split, and none of the women folk in my family cared much for my whiskers, said they made me look like an old ruffian. Broke down and got a haircut too. Twenty six years of regulation haircuts develops a certain "habit pattern". I'm now about as unintimidating as a 6'2" 220 lb half arsed pirate could be. All the better to slip in amongst the "sheep" and pick me out a plump one. ;-)

 

[Howard Wallace]

Three videos on Shaving, Honing, and stropping.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7466711741780429878

Good videos. Excelent demos of stropping and honing. On the shaving I suspect everyone has to learn their own way. I don't shave against the grain like he does.

Also, he skips the most challenging part by wearing a moustache. I find that I can do a lot of my upper lip by moving the skin under the razor. Also, I get to make lots of funny faces.

I was impressed by his ability to talk through the shave.

On Sunday I was shaving when I heard my daughter coming downstairs. I was idly wondering if she was going to barge in on me when I sliced my cheek. I think it's my best slice yet. Lots of blood. It looks cool though. If anyone asks I can say I got into a little khukuri duel.

Guru razor teaches mindfulness. He never sleeps, and never forgets to remind you when the mind drifts. How hard do many people search to find a guru like that?

 

[45-70]

... All the better to slip in amongst the "sheep" and pick me out a plump one. ;-)

Still no goats in the goat locker?

 

[Svashtar]

Guru razor teaches mindfulness. He never sleeps, and never forgets to remind you when the mind drifts. How hard do many people search to find a guru like that?

Exactly what I have found in my limited experience! I think those type of things are good for you and sharpen the mind. There are only a couple of other things I have found like that: using a buffer at 3600 RPM with a sharp object in your hand and trying to polish a tricky area, and flying, which for me requires total 100% concentration. Maybe you get more casual about it as you gain experience, but I'm not there yet. Daydream for one second and you are in trouble, maybe just a nick, and maybe something a bit worse. Like I said, good for you.

As to Sarge's creation, I have become convinced that Sarge is one of those rare individuals who was never told he couldn't make something, so he just goes ahead and does it. If I saw a piratical looking fellow driving out of Texas with a car whittled out of curly maple with a hand-forged engine getting 100 miles to the gallon I wouldn't have to guess who it was.

Norm

Norm

 

[Sylvrfalcn]

Straight razors are snooty rascals, they shave good, but whittling a toothpick or peeling an apple is beneath their dignity. So, this evening I cranked out a companion for my razor, using the same forged steel and curly maple "recipe" to try and capture the same rustic "flavor". Turned out okay. The 3 1/2" blade is reminiscent of a good puukko, handy size and sharp as blue blazes. Whittled the handle kind of fancy, still don't have a lathe, but still have a soft spot for them turned handles. Might cut my thumb with this one, but better my thumb than my face. Dadgum Howard, it plumb hurt me to read about your misadventure. Hope your "khukuri wound" heals quick and clean.

Sarge

 

[Ad Astra]

On Sunday I was shaving when I heard my daughter coming downstairs. I was idly wondering if she was going to barge in on me when I sliced my cheek. I think it's my best slice yet. Lots of blood. It looks cool though. If anyone asks I can say I got into a little khukuri duel.

That does it. I am *never* _ever_ going to shave with a straight razor. :foot: Even to have a scar like G.I. Joe. No.

Before it was "just not happening" but Howard's mishap has raised the ante to "would rather wrestle a cheetah."

Stop for a minute, guys. What if you DROP that thing? You pursue your new, hazardous hobby in the BATHROOM, for crissake. Never mind saving face. More than that is at risk. Please reconsider the Mach 3, all of you, ah, braver-than-me men.


Mike

 

[Sylvrfalcn]

That does it. I am *never* _ever_ going to shave with a straight razor. :foot: Even to have a scar like G.I. Joe. No.

Before it was "just not happening" but Howard's mishap has raised the ante to "would rather wrestle a cheetah."

Stop for a minute, guys. What if you DROP that thing? You pursue your new, hazardous hobby in the BATHROOM, for crissake. Never mind saving face. More than that is at risk. Please reconsider the Mach 3, all of you, ah, braver-than-me men.


Mike

Mike, I haven't given myself so much as a bad nick in the last seven or eight years shaving with a straight razor. As with anything else, YMMV.

Sarge

 

[Ad Astra]

But that's you. I'm hazard-prone.

And I'll agree "my mileage may vary" - I'd lose the tip of my nose at the least. I always find inventive ways to get injured.

Lighting smoke for the shavers (not kiddin').



Mike

 

[Svashtar]

<snip>

So, this evening I cranked out a companion for my razor, using the same forged steel and curly maple "recipe" to try and capture the same rustic "flavor". Turned out okay. The 3 1/2" blade is reminiscent of a good puukko, handy size and sharp as blue blazes. Whittled the handle kind of fancy, still don't have a lathe, but still have a soft spot for them turned handles.

Sarge

Sarge, now you got me. I have seen this style on several of the knives you made for the Ram sale, and assumed that they were either old pieces of turned material that you had recycled for the knife handles, or that you had turned them yourself. These big rings are all hand carved? I didn't think it was possible but now I'm even more impressed.

Norm

 

[Howard Wallace]

That does it. I am *never* _ever_ going to shave with a straight razor. :foot: Even to have a scar like G.I. Joe. No.

Before it was "just not happening" but Howard's mishap has raised the ante to "would rather wrestle a cheetah."

Stop for a minute, guys. What if you DROP that thing? You pursue your new, hazardous hobby in the BATHROOM, for crissake. Never mind saving face. More than that is at risk. Please reconsider the Mach 3, all of you, ah, braver-than-me men.

Ahhhh geeze ... think of the trouble the guys go to to get their Heidelberg deuling scars. This is much easier.

As to dropping it, I wear a towel.

PS - great shave this morning. No cuts, except the open wound from Sunday did get stirred up a little.

 

[Svashtar]

Ahhhh geeze ... think of the trouble the guys go to to get their Heidelberg deuling scars. This is much easier.

As to dropping it, I wear a towel.

PS - great shave this morning. No cuts, except the open wound from Sunday did get stirred up a little.

And the cool thing is that if you're attacked while shaving you have a weapon already to hand! Of course you'll probably have to rehone it afterwards depending upon clothing / bone strikes, etc., etc.

Norm