Strap them into the poetry appreciation chairs...

Howard Wallace

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Red Flower and I have been busy today, working around the yard, planting flowers, and translating.

We just put up this spring couplet on the arch.

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It was written by the Qing Dynasty scholar Zheng Ban Qiao. Freely translated it reads:

Anticipating the springtime, when the flowers come and everything is different and new.

In late autumn the numerous manifestations disappear, in the move toward simplicity the bare tree stands alone.

***********************************************

We also found another plaque for in the house.

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Health Preserving Poem

The sun rises in the eastern sea and sets in the western mountains.
Unhappy it's one day, or happy it's still one day.
Don't take unnecessary pains to study an insoluble problem.
(then you'll be) comfortable in body and heart.

Who supplies your money? Don't be agitated if there is a lot of it or not much.
A little meat and lots of vegetables, three meals every day. Eating good food or poor food, enjoy the fragrance and the flavor.
Don't worry if your clothes are new or old. Either will protect you from the cold.
Frequently chat with your friends. Talk about the current situation and the past.

The whole family, the elderly and the young, support each other. There is peace when rich or poor.
Grandchild with your last name, grandchild without your name, are looked upon the same. Son and daughter are both happy.
Work hard from morning to evening. exercise well. When busy you're optimistic, when relaxed you're optimistic.
An open heart and a strong healthy body will maintain you to the heavenly years. You will not be an immortal, but better than an immortal.

I'm not sure who wrote this one. It could have been one of the ancient sages, or maybe the guy from the fortune cookie factory was moonlighting ...

Anyway, we thought it was pretty good and hung it up in the house.
 
While the second offering is understandable and I appreciate the sentiment I often find myself at a loss when it comes to an eastern viewpoint .
Often the most I can see in them is that the author has a disciplined mind .
To me it is like a mathematician describing beauty in terms of degree and order .

I think it more than an aquired taste . It may be a question of philosophy .
I hope one day to be better able to appreciate the ideas expressed .

It is a lovely archway and the tempered/stained bamboo tablets are superb . Could you show us the interior of the garden ?
 
Seems to me HW, that there is a stong correlation between the english sentiment enscribed above your arch, and the intention expressed in the plaque you hung.
I envy the internal peace that allows you to display this to the world.
Thank you for sharing this.. Makes me think:eek:
 
It just doesn't translate well. Japanese poetry, for instance, was judged less on it's surface content (although that could be quite moving), but on word choice, the fitness, the fineness of fit, the flow of the language over the tongue. Then too, since both Chinese and Japanese are image-oriented languages, rather than word-oriented linear/recursive languages like most western languages, there's a fundamental difference in thought patterns. The closest parallel I can think of in English is Milton, who, because he was blind, found his expression in the spoken quality of his language. People who can't stand Milton have never heard it read out loud.

One key semantic point often overlooked (or considered the great fault of such poetry by westerners) is the use of nature, and particularly the nature found in common rural life, as a parallel, or path into emotional states. That the same things recur in so many poems seems repetitive to western ears, but they carry a great freight of connotative meaning in the Japanese culture. To put it in perspective, do you find the kennings of Old English or Old Norse verse irksome? Or the repetitive phrases of the Greek epics where seas are always "wine-dark," and so on? No. And all these usages arose from a common cause: the need of a bard to tell the same tales again and again, without remembering more than the events and emotions. With a full bag of such adjectival phrases, a good bard could recite for hours. And the Japanese didn't have a written language until sometime in the eight century, giving them plenty of time to develop their poetry along those lines.

And finally, the oriental languages, particularly Japanese, are much more terse. As an example, it just happens that I wrote my first poetry in a number of years last night, a haiku. What can be expressed in exceedingly short phrases in Japanese is impossible to replicate in English (and I hate to think of what a German translation of, say, the Man'yoshu would sound like. :barf:

In writing haiku in English, I find myself continually fighting get rid of just one last syllable in each line. It starts to be tempting to rework the haiku as a tanka, or perhaps the older sedoka folk form. But I was using haiku precisely for its brevity, and the longer forms, while roughly twice as long, would overwhelm the primary work I intend to couple them with.

For those of you who don't believe me, I challenge you to write a single worthwhile haiku; it's one of the hardest verse forms you'll ever attempt. Seventeen syllables, divided into three lines of 5, 7, and 5 syllables, respectively. It's pretty easy to find lots of single words that take up five syllables in English, and there are even a few (more than you'd suspect) that can fill out the seven syllable line. (hint, get the two books of Jim Morrison's surviving notebooks, as he had a remarkable affinity for verse as terse (sorry for the internal rhyme...I'll be doing Anglo-Saxon Long Line if I don't watch out :foot: ). Or Morrison's favorite poet, Arthur Rimbaud, who has much of the same quality, albeit in more regular verse forms.

Incidentally, nice work. I particularly like the round plaque. I went through my collection of oriental literature, both Chinese and Japanese, trying to identify the text, but no luck; sorry.
 
Why would someone who has studied Japanese language, culture and literature in such depth write haiku in English anyway?

Here we go, off the cuff:

anata no kuchi wa
urusaiyo, ne?
shaberanai de baka !

(dont take that personally, Im just being naughty)

PS Oops! I wrote it backwards! I did 757 I just realised.

Ok, lets try again.

ganguro dai tsuki
ashi ga ame desho
o chinko tate!
 
Urban Cyborg thanks for the clarification . I think that we say close to the same thing in different ways . Your observation does come from a closer perspective than mine ever will . I respect that there are different needs and desires in the world . Defining a poem in mathematical terms and then fitting the poetry to the equation is akin to building a box in a factory and then deciding what the factory will build to fit in the box .
I appreciate complexity but not for its own sake .

It may be that coming from a simple straight forward people I do not appreciate machinations . I do not read a great deal of late . I am involved with my own offerings and find my time relegated to that and my other crafts . I find that to read too much allows those flavors to marry into my own work . It is a kind of isolationism which has its own rewards and pitfalls. I think that to understand a people you must be able to appreciate their arts . Too often we look at their industry .


I am really communicating in inelegant disrespectful terms in describing what is to the eye a peaceful welcoming entranceway . To be offered welcome and bid peace is a great honor and gift .
 
Kevin the grey said:
While the second offering is understandable and I appreciate the sentiment I often find myself at a loss when it comes to an eastern viewpoint .
Often the most I can see in them is that the author has a disciplined mind .
To me it is like a mathematician describing beauty in terms of degree and order .

I think it more than an aquired taste . It may be a question of philosophy .
I hope one day to be better able to appreciate the ideas expressed .

I suspect the failure of the poetry is in the translation. As Urban Cyborg said

Urban Cyborg said:
It just doesn't translate well. Japanese poetry, for instance, was judged less on it's surface content (although that could be quite moving), but on word choice, the fitness, the fineness of fit, the flow of the language over the tongue. Then too, since both Chinese and Japanese are image-oriented languages, rather than word-oriented linear/recursive languages like most western languages, there's a fundamental difference in thought patterns. .

He was being kind though. I think it is possible to translate, just very difficult to do well.

Each character has numerous meanings and connotations depending on other words it may be a part of, historical stories, etc. Here is a literal translation of the couplets where I have chosen one of the many possibilities of meaning for each character. If I find a little more time maybe I can flesh it out with multiple meanings for each character and give a little more depth of understanding of the possibilities. The result is like a string of faceted gems, each one presenting multiple viewpoints.

ling3 - awaiting, main point
yi4 - different
biao1 - object
xin1 - new
er4 - 2
yue4 - month
hua1 - flower

shan1 - get rid of
fan2 - numerous, manifold,
jiu4 - move towards
jian3 - simple
san1 - 3
qiu1 - autumn
shu4 - tree

Kevin the grey said:
It is a lovely archway and the tempered/stained bamboo tablets are superb . Could you show us the interior of the garden ?

The garden is still in the "simple" phase, just starting to peek into springtime. Most of it looks like the scraggly rhododendron bushes you can see beyond the arch. Here is yesterday's blossom from an asiatic pear though.

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I think we can agree you have a lovely Garden, Howard. There is much good inside your Garden, and with time, perhaps it will be able to come out into full fruition.
It would be nice to see pictures of this progress, truly.


munk
 
Can you drop the word, 'seems' ?? Don't put any word there. I like your poem very much. A shotgun does appear to shake the birds from the sky. I like it.



munk
 
munk said:
Can you drop the word, 'seems' ?? Don't put any word there. I like your poem very much. A shotgun does appear to shake the birds from the sky. I like it.
Edited ... the other change was to keep the required 7 syllables ...
 
That is wonderful!

That is grace. This is why I don't write poetry. I can write poetry sometimes when I write prose, it comes out. But whenever I sit down to try, I can't seem to do it good enough for me to believe I should keep going. I do write some every now and then, because it just comes out.

But the image of the gun somehow just shaking the birds out of the sky is great, just great. That is what great poetry does- is it. It is not just a description, however well built, of a thing in life, is offers something of the life itself, and your image does that.

Think about it; if one was from Mars and new to the planet, and did not know about guns and shotgun hunting, it looks as if some force did indeed shake the birds right out of the sky.


munk
 
Howard honestlyI think it is more than an inability to translate . It is an inability to comprehend . I watched a man write one character in a long letter . He took more time and thought in those few penstrokes than many would take over the entire letter . There ia depth that cannot be fathomed in a glance . It interests me greatly . However I must stay true to my own works . They are mostly of Irish content . While one character does travel to eastern lands the characters must stay true to form . I don,t think there were too many Kukuuri wielding Irishman ! L:O:L
 
As my literature prof wife reminds me, prose verges into poetry when the intent is full enough, and the lines brief. I'm glad you like it.

I've been trying to capture how it first feels, using a khukuri. This is getting close, but isn't there yet.

Sinuous, it strikes.
Cleaving so effortlessly
Branches ... limbs ... and doubts.
 
Zombies eat our brains.
Shotgun blasts can slow them down,
Still they rise again.

Zombie haiku for the win. I am t3h roxxor.

Modified on the advice of the editor.
 
I don't wanna sound like an art critic- I can't write good poetry- but, can you change the word, 'but' ??
It's one of those words one tries to avoid in poetry.


munk
 
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