Strider heat treat ?

K

kwackster

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Dec 23, 2005
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Has anyone encountered differences with Strider knives that were heat treated by Paul Bos, and the newer ones which were done by someone else ?
In edge durability, toughness, or anything else ?
Would like to know,:)
 
As far as I know they haven't changed the formula at all. Heat-treating stainless steels isn't done by guess; it's just following a formula. It doesn't matter who does it, only what formula he uses.
 
Exact same formula.

Paul moved along with Buck (I think) so while the blades are the same, no Paul Bos stamp cause he isn't officially the one heat treating them anymore, despite an identical process.
 
Even with the same formula, if it is done in furnaces that don't have as precise temperature control the heat treat will not be the same. Who does the heat treat now, and with what equipment?
 
Still done using the same formula that Paul Bos did. Only difference is no "Bos" stamp.
 
Lets take Vodka for example - same Formula, as you may say alcogol + water. So no difference you may say between "Jewel of Russia" or "Russian Standard" and some potato based liquid or mix of medical alcogol with water...

Sorry, there is so many details which is very easy to miss. Brand name usually based on excellent record maintained for years.

So to clearify this it will be nice to see what equipment used etc., but of course ultimae answer will be side by side blade test. I am not saying that anything wrong with Strider HT, my point is that statement like - "Does not matter who is doing it - it is well known formula.", do not convince me at all. This is sounds same as "Does not matter who making this knives Strider or some Chinese reproduser...". Of course it matter! And Paul Bos well known brand in HT, as well as Strider in knife design.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I've got to agree with NOZH here. Bos made a name for himself by perfecting a heat treating process that makes outstanding blades. It's usually the little things that count like constant temperatures and uniform cooling processes. To say that Strider uses the same formula just does not in and of itself guarantee the same end result.
 
Strider have there blades heat treated at Paul Bos's old location. The same formula is used as is the same equipment, it's just a different person doing the process, who incidentally knows what he is doing. There is no difference in the blades done by Bos or the ones done by the guy who's doing them now.
 
When I was first finding myself drawn to making my own knives and trying to pick the brains of other makers I always had to wonder why so many knife makers were so 'private' about their heat treat methods. I know some that don't even let their help do any of the H/T and not because they can't but because they do it behind closed doors, where no one else sees it all or at least certain steps in the process.

I think there is a difference just like there is in food prepared following a recipe. You can start a meal, and I can start the same meal at the same time using the same ingredients but somewhere along the way to finishing that meal and then tasting it something strange happens and one tastes better than the other. I can cook my grandmas squirrel pot pie recipe all the time and yet it never quite comes out like hers did. Same with her buckwheat cakes. Just not the same at all. Edible but there is a distinct difference.

Its the same for my cookies. I have this super recipe for chocolate chip cookies. When family was here visiting I made them and everyone loved them. When I went back home of course they wanted them again. So, I made them clear across the country, at a different elevation, in a different oven with different equipment, different names on the ingredient bags and guess what? They were not the same. They were good but not what everyone wanted really.

Its been said that there is no "rocket science" to heat treating steel and technically I guess thats true but I know some makers that will just smile at you and change the subject if you pry into their proprietary methods about it just the same.

STR
 
english mark said:
Strider have there blades heat treated at Paul Bos's old location. The same formula is used as is the same equipment, it's just a different person doing the process, who incidentally knows what he is doing. There is no difference in the blades done by Bos or the ones done by the guy who's doing them now.
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I thought Paul Bos moved all his equipment to new location. It will be really strange to left all your staff behind and as I remember he was closed for a while to set up everything in new place after move.

It is question for Buck forum I Guess.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
That's the info i have, i did a search on a strider forum i'm on and it comes from a good source so i take it as golden :)
 
english mark said:
That's the info i have, i did a search on a strider forum i'm on and it comes from a good source so i take it as golden :)
Click to expand...

I asked this question on Buck forum.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433426

Here is clearification for equipment question:

Phil D said:
Being the person in charge of Bucks relocation I can tell you Paul Sally and all of bucks equipment and pauls equipment made it here safely, the Strider reference is most likely in reference to a heat treat company in San Diego that paul worked at or had part ownership many moons ago I think the striders are having their knives done there. I will let Paul know and he will post in the morning
Click to expand...

So as you see, it is bit different. As I understand Strider customers are all very enthusiastic about Strider knives, for good reason I suppose, but sometimes they are overenthusiastic and sometimes looking for help from imagination. I always keep it in mind when read something like this.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
So as you see, it is bit different. As I understand Strider customers are all very enthusiastic about Strider knives, for good reason I suppose, but sometimes they are overenthusiastic and sometimes looking for help from imagination. I always keep it in mind when read something like this.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

Um no, it's what Strider told the public. I assume they know best how they heat treat their knives. No?

Do you really think Paul moved away from the Strider guys and wouldn't share EXACTLY how to continue an otherwise healthy relationship? You really think Paul was working behind closed doors when it comes to Strider?

Take apart a Canon digital camera and you will see a high percentage of Sony parts, including the LCD screens. While it isn't beneficial for either electronics giant to advertise this one way or another, many businesses rely heavily on partnerships and back-scratching.

Keep in mind that Buck surely doesn't want Bos' stamp on Striders anymore, as they've already copied some designs recently and the Strider guys (understandably) weren't impressed, considering the past partnership.

But Paul and Strider still get along, so the only logical outcome is he shows them how to continue manufacturing an identical product, minus his name for 2 reasons. He isn't personally doing the HT anymore, and he can't step on the toes of his true parent company for their ethically questionable business decisions.
 
OK guys, here is the straight scoop. When I moved up here with Buck I took all my equeptment with me. It was to much expence for strider to ship hundreds of blades up here each week, Shipping would have cost as much as heat treating. So Duane and myself went to my old commercial shop Certified Metal Craft in El Cajon and set them up with the same procedures I use, They have state of the art Vacume equeptment,and they are very serious about there work. I still do most of Duanes and Micks customsfor them. They are very close friends and part of my family. Hope this clears things up. Paul Bos.
 
Paul Bos said:
OK guys, here is the straight scoop. When I moved up here with Buck I took all my equeptment with me. It was to much expence for strider to ship hundreds of blades up here each week, Shipping would have cost as much as heat treating. So Duane and myself went to my old commercial shop Certified Metal Craft in El Cajon and set them up with the same procedures I use, They have state of the art Vacume equeptment,and they are very serious about there work. I still do most of Duanes and Micks customsfor them. They are very close friends and part of my family. Hope this clears things up. Paul Bos.
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul! :thumbup:
 
Interesting that while most would assume the HT is the "same", mick and duane still have Paul do the HT on their customs....if their in-house HT is the same, why bother? I would assume its the potential profit loss of a messed up ht on a custom vs a messed up ht on a batch of production line blades?
 
Sir: As I stated Duane and Mick are my friends, It is a personal thing that I wanted to do, Sending a small amount verses hundreds of blades. is not a big expence. After all I do cater to the Custom Knifemakers. Your opinion is yours. Paul OUT.
 
That's a valid business decision, if it's what's happening. Mr. Bos has limits to the number of blades he can personally supervise, and if he chooses to limit it a comfortable number, who am I to complain?
I don't know of any other heat treater in knife history who has been able to achieve such an excellent reputation, but it doesn't necessarily make all other knives not treated by him inferior.
Of course, they have to follow up with excellent customer service - and methods to forestall consumer discontent - which is why makers have been leaving RC hardness indents in obvious places for years.
Big picture - congratulations to Paul for his success. Buy a custom for his stamp. He's still available.
 
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