stropping matierals

[Magnaminous_G]

As for video, I don't have a camera for that. The upside is, there are many good videos already out there (search Murray Carter sharpening).

By 'properly prepared', basically it comes down to making sure the edge is completely apexed (at an absolute minimum). Beyond that, the more refined (polished) the edge is made on the stones, the more effective the stropping will be at further refining & polishing the edge. I mentioned earlier, about 'degrees of sharp'; that's sort of what I was referring to. Stropping is usually done with very fine grit compound, or in the case of bare leather, EXTREMELY fine abrasives (silicates) in the leather. If your edge off the stones is very coarse, the strop can remove burrs, but you can't expect much beyond that in terms of polish or additional refinement (thinning) of the edge. For high polish, it needs to be approached in small steps, tight increments in grit progression. If the jump from one grit to the next is too wide (say, from 220 to 600 to 1000, if using wet/dry sandpaper), then the much smaller abrasives on the strop won't be very effective at removing the coarse scratches left behind. If, on the other hand, the grit sequence is tight (220/320/400/600/800/1200/1500/2000, then stropping with something like 6, 3 and 1 micron diamond paste) the bare strops will at least have a chance to really make the edge 'pop'. All of this assumes, of course, that the technique is solid (consistent angle maintained, good regulation of pressure throughout the process). Good technique trumps all, when sharpening. Bad technique will always produce bad results, regardless of which tools you use. Moral of the story: practice, practice, practice, as much as you can. And pay very close attention to all you do, while you're doing it. Use a good magnifier, under bright light, to frequently inspect the edge, as you work.

Can you give more detail about what you consider to be good technique, since you say, "Good technique trumps all." How will I even know if I'm using good technique or not?

 

[Jason B.]

You won't. Good technique comes with time and practice.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Can you give more detail about what you consider to be good technique, since you say, "Good technique trumps all." How will I even know if I'm using good technique or not?

You won't. Good technique comes with time and practice.

That's what it's about. Time and practice will teach you a lot, so long as you observe closely what you're doing in your sharpening, and the immediate results of that. You'll begin to notice differences in how your edge cuts. That's the time to stop and think about WHY it's different. That's also the best time to take a VERY CLOSE LOOK at your edge with the magnifier, and correlate what you see with what the edge is doing, in terms of cutting performance. Then think about what you're doing in your technique to make the edge look and perform as it does. One thing I'm ALWAYS doing, when sharpening or stropping, is to make just a few passes on the hones or strop with the blade, then immediately test the edge to see what difference I've made.

I like to use phone book paper to slice, in testing my edges. If I'm doing it right, the edge will slice cleanly & effortlessly through the paper, along the full length of the cutting edge, without snagging or skipping across the paper (that would indicate burrs, or dull/blunt edge respectively). Taking it further, if things are going REAL good, I notice improvements in how cleanly, and QUIETLY, the edge slices the paper. The smoother and finer the edge gets, the more whisper-quiet the cut becomes. There'll also be improvements in how easily the cut is first initiated, how easily it plunges into the edge of the paper (hold the knife by the very butt of the handle, with just two fingers, and see how easily the edge will slice into the paper this way). Initiate the cut at several points along the knife edge (ricasso, a couple points in the central section, then at the 'belly' of the blade, then very close to the tip), and see if all points are equally sharp. These are a few of the indicators to look for, to see how well you're doing.

Whittling hair or shaving is fun, but it's a somewhat limited 'test' of an edge. If you're only cutting a few hairs this way, it's limited to the very narrow portions of the edge that actually come into contact with the hair. And a very fragile wire edge can shave hair easily, but will quickly fail when cutting anything tougher. This is why I prefer to test the edge by slicing cleanly, with no snags or skips, through fine paper, along the full length of the edge. In 'real world' terms, I think this better demonstrates how refined the WHOLE edge really is.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

That's what it's about. Time and practice will teach you a lot, so long as you observe closely what you're doing in your sharpening, and the immediate results of that. You'll begin to notice differences in how your edge cuts. That's the time to stop and think about WHY it's different. That's also the best time to take a VERY CLOSE LOOK at your edge with the magnifier, and correlate what you see with what the edge is doing, in terms of cutting performance. Then think about what you're doing in your technique to make the edge look and perform as it does. One thing I'm ALWAYS doing, when sharpening or stropping, is to make just a few passes on the hones or strop with the blade, then immediately test the edge to see what difference I've made.

I like to use phone book paper to slice, in testing my edges. If I'm doing it right, the edge will slice cleanly & effortlessly through the paper, along the full length of the cutting edge, without snagging or skipping across the paper (that would indicate burrs, or dull/blunt edge respectively). Taking it further, if things are going REAL good, I notice improvements in how cleanly, and QUIETLY, the edge slices the paper. The smoother and finer the edge gets, the more whisper-quiet the cut becomes. There'll also be improvements in how easily the cut is first initiated, how easily it plunges into the edge of the paper (hold the knife by the very butt of the handle, with just two fingers, and see how easily the edge will slice into the paper this way). Initiate the cut at several points along the knife edge (ricasso, a couple points in the central section, then at the 'belly' of the blade, then very close to the tip), and see if all points are equally sharp. These are a few of the indicators to look for, to see how well you're doing.

Whittling hair or shaving is fun, but it's a somewhat limited 'test' of an edge. If you're only cutting a few hairs this way, it's limited to the very narrow portions of the edge that actually come into contact with the hair. And a very fragile wire edge can shave hair easily, but will quickly fail when cutting anything tougher. This is why I prefer to test the edge by slicing cleanly, with no snags or skips, through fine paper, along the full length of the edge. In 'real world' terms, I think this better demonstrates how refined the WHOLE edge really is.

Okay, I believe you, sort of. Maybe 50%. Because you keep talking about how sharp your edges are and how much experience you have, but no proof... not even a picture, or any explanation or sharing techniques that could help someone else get those results you claim. Just words. I know a guy local here who swears he regularly catches 20 pound large mouth bass at the lake but always refuses to explain how and where he does it... and never has pictures, either. But he'll say, "time and practice" like you did.

But what can you show me or teach me? Just say stuff like "time and practice" well, hell... I can say that, too.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Okay, I believe you, sort of. Maybe 50%. Because you keep talking about how sharp your edges are and how much experience you have, but no proof... not even a picture, or any explanation or sharing techniques that could help someone else get those results you claim. Just words. I know a guy local here who swears he regularly catches 20 pound large mouth bass at the lake but always refuses to explain how and where he does it... and never has pictures, either. But he'll say, "time and practice" like you did.

But what can you show me or teach me? Just say stuff like "time and practice" well, hell... I can say that, too.

Regarding 'time and patience':

Yes, anyone can say that. Those who have the patience, will focus on DOING it. It's no different from anything else in life that's a bit challenging to learn. You give it a try, take a close, critical look at the results of your efforts, then adjust as needed and keep going. There's no instant, 'magic' solution to be found in a video. The 'patience' part of it, is by far the most important. I don't worry about whether someone believes me or not, as I have nothing to prove to myself. I wouldn't waste my time making all this up, if I hadn't actually put in the time and focused on improving my work. I figured out what worked for me, and simply passed it along. If one chooses to willfully ignore it, because I haven't made a video, that's their choice. Making progress at anything comes from doing it, repeatedly, with a open mind, and learning from what you've done.

A couple of years ago, I was also a bit skeptical of some of the claimed accomplishments of members here. But all I had to do was actually make the effort to try out some of the things detailed in posts here (and there's a TON of it, if you keep reading and keep thinking). I didn't demand proof from those who had already figured it out; they're not obligated to prove anything to me or anyone else. The 'proof' comes from paying close, patient attention to your work, adjust, and then see what it does for you. Then do it again, and again, until you see you're doing it right. If you don't have the patience for it, odds are, you'll never progress as far as you'd hope to.

 

[Ben Dover]

I quite agree. One learns from one's failures, not one's successes.