Stropping with Diamond pastes

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So I am all set up with my cased leather strops, and some good white, and green compounds. This now has me thinking, about the next steps. How many people are using diamond pastes, like Wicked Edge type stuff? They go all the way to .5 micron. Does this really make a lot of difference? Will I see that much more improvement on my edges, with this?

I ask these questions, in reference to another thread going on about factory edges. I find myself learning to stretch in between what I would call a "hard sharpening", vs. touchups. Opinions?
 
So long as you are using a properly sized compound to match your finishing stone they make a huge difference.

For example if you jump from a 1k stone to some .5 micron CBN (30,000 grit), no difference except for effective burr removal. But if you jump from a 1k stone to some 9 micron CBN (about 2000grit) then you will see a big improvement. All these things are relevant , and properly selecting your compound for your progression is a important.
 
So I am all set up with my cased leather strops, and some good white, and green compounds. This now has me thinking, about the next steps. How many people are using diamond pastes, like Wicked Edge type stuff? They go all the way to .5 micron. Does this really make a lot of difference? Will I see that much more improvement on my edges, with this?

I ask these questions, in reference to another thread going on about factory edges. I find myself learning to stretch in between what I would call a "hard sharpening", vs. touchups. Opinions?

From what I found, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between diamond and AlumOx on common steels. I'll go ahead and say that (IMHO) on carbon steel or stainless up to 154cm or Sandvic flavors, the AlumOx works better, and for fine polishing the chromium oxide is still probably a better choice. When it comes to working with compounds for stropping, the surface you are working against, and what you expect it to do are going to be very important factors - what constitutes a "touch-up"? One can get very creative with compounds.

I have gotten very good reports from one of the folks who used my Washboard homebrew AlumOx compound on s30v and ZDP189 - said it worked great. This is high purity stuff so likely at the higher end for the breed on the Moh's scale, but AlumOx nonetheless. I chalk a lot of that up to the hardness and surface characteristics of the strop.

I'd guess that when it comes down to high vanadium carbide steel, and sub-micron abrasives, you'd definitely want some diamond. I can't imagine doing a ton of touching up with loose sub-micron abrasives of any kind, but this goes back to what you might expect from it and what you're doing with your cutting tool in between.
 
So I am all set up with my cased leather strops, and some good white, and green compounds. This now has me thinking, about the next steps. How many people are using diamond pastes, like Wicked Edge type stuff? They go all the way to .5 micron. Does this really make a lot of difference? Will I see that much more improvement on my edges, with this?

I ask these questions, in reference to another thread going on about factory edges. I find myself learning to stretch in between what I would call a "hard sharpening", vs. touchups. Opinions?

The term 'touch up' implies that one will use a method often, not waiting until the blade gets dull and needs 'sharpening.'
When a strop is used in this fashion, it will make a world of difference. I only put my EDCs on stones 3-4 times a year, but will regularly maintain them with stropping, either on CrO2 or on a bare strop, depending upon how the knife has been used. This gets done EVERY day. If you let it go longer, and the edge degrades, you will no longer be 'touching up' the edge. You'll need to 'sharpen' it.

If it's been used hard, I'll strop with the chromium oxide, giving perhaps 20-30 passes per side, then finishing with 5-10 passes on a bare strop. Takes less than a minute or two. Never more. Please remember to wipe the blade off when finished with the compounded strop before continuing on the bare one so as not to cross-contaminate.


Stitchawl
 
I have some additional questions regarding diamond products:

I found some 2 micron diamond spray and thought I might give it a try. It should be here any day.
I am currently using white compound that came with the Surgi Sharp leather belt. Not sure where it falls in microns ( I'd like to know) but it works just fine for burr removal.

I'm not sure what to do with the spray.
Should I apply it on the smooth side of the leather belt?
Do I have to let it dry before use?
How often will I have to apply it?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks for the post L2bravo,
I hope we learn something.
 
I have some additional questions regarding diamond products:
I found some 2 micron diamond spray and thought I might give it a try. It should be here any day.
I am currently using white compound that came with the Surgi sharp leather belt. Not sure where it falls in microns ( I'd like to know) but it works just fine for burr removal.
I'm not sure what to do with the spray.
Should I apply it on the smooth side of the leather belt?
Do I have to let it dry before use?
How often will I have to apply it?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks for the post L2bravo,
I hope we learn something.
sprays should be applied on the smooth side always
 
Well unfortunately theres very little (if any) diamond (polycrystalline or otherwise) in that spray...

With that being said I cant say much about the particle size distribution of that product. But I can say that it is most likely Aluminum Oxide.
Sorry :(
 
Well it was only a few bucks so I'll give it a try and see if there is any noticeable improvement over the white compound I am using.
What brand would you suggest? The abrasive in this is said to be metal bond synthetic monocrystalline diamonds.
 
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Either Hand American Products , or that produced by Mr Kenneth Schwartz.

With a known Concentration , Particle Size Distribution these are the only two companies I would buy abrasives from.

FWIW the product produced by Ken will be available through Bark River Knife and Tool soon.
 
Its supposed to be good , I believe that DMT is Clays Supplier for those so the QC should be good. I haven't used them though.
 
Its supposed to be good , I believe that DMT is Clays Supplier for those so the QC should be good. I haven't used them though.

So I wonder if they are the same compound? DMT seems to be a pretty decent company for sure.
 
I have some additional questions regarding diamond products:

I found some 2 micron diamond spray and thought I might give it a try. It should be here any day.
I am currently using white compound that came with the Surgi Sharp leather belt. Not sure where it falls in microns ( I'd like to know) but it works just fine for burr removal.

Here is some info I found on the net regarding this (2 Micron Little Stropper SMD Premium Diamond Slurry Spray 2oz) compound that you've found. Apparently it's produced in several different micron sizes, and you've ordered the 2 micron size bottle. Let us know how you like it.

The 2 micron and 1 micron sprays are made from the finest metal-bond synthetic monocrystalline diamonds (SMD) available. Our exclusive formulation takes advantage of the deeper scratch patterns that the blocky-structured SMD crystals provide. Our three "finisher" sprays, the .50 micron, .25 micron and .125 micron formulations, use a polycrystalline diamond that leaves the smoothest edge possible. Our exclusive water-soluble lubricant solution ensures that the diamonds are working evenly on your edge and that worn metal isn't piling up on your strop. All bottles are two ounces.

I haven't been able to locate any site that specifies the amount of diamond in this spray. On the other hand, it really doesn't take a lot of diamond dust to get the job done. You only need a lot if you want bragging rights... Any company that tries to sell a diamond spray without diamonds in it wont stay in business very long. Industrial diamond is pretty cheap so there is no point in risking start-up costs for a business selling the stuff NOT to put enough it to work properly. In fact, you can order your own diamond dust by the kilogram in any micron size you'd want for between $125-$200 USD FOB. A kilo of .5mic polycrystalline diamond dust will last the average knife sharpener several lifetimes... Mix a teaspoon full into a shoe cream tin and you have a supply to last the next ten years!

Try it out (putting it on the smooth side of the leather) and see how it performs for you. If after a few minutes you can see black marks on the strop, you know it's working. It's a simple enough test.

Perhaps the poster who tells us that there is "very little (if any) diamond (polycrystalline or otherwise) in that spray..." can tell us where he came up with this information.


Stitchawl
 
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DMT is an excellent company! Been around 35 years or so, and always enjoyed a great reputation for products, sales, and service.
They were one of the first to produce a diamond V-sharpener, marketed for kitchen use, small ultra-lightweight sharpeners for backpackers, larger interrupted pattern bench stones, etc., etc. Personally, I love their plastic Aligner clamp as it's a great take-along device when used with a sheet of wet/dry sandpaper, and highly versatile when used with bench stones. Anything DMT sells will perform the way they say it will.


Stitchawl
 
Over a decade ago the company I work for got into reconditioning some of our helical cutters. We used diamond paste from an industrial outfit by the name of Braemar, I still have a little bit - the product is very good even if their customer service isn't. Picked up a range of diamond grit. Industrial suppliers of this stuff for finishing would not be in business for long if they didn't have good QC. As Stitch says, industrial diamond isn't that expensive - you're paying for the grading and shipping (and markup).
 
..................... As Stitch says, industrial diamond isn't that expensive - you're paying for the grading and shipping (and markup).

One of the first things a student working on an MBA learns is that 'advertising' can make or break sales. Having a good name for a product is the key to marketing. Sexy, exotic, adventurous, and magical l will always outsell drab, local, mundane, and ordinary. A local jeweler here is advertising rings and pendants made with slices of genuine meteorite! He sells out as soon as he makes them, and he charges an arm and a leg for them. Hey! It's genuine meteorite! And people never stop to think that the meteorite he's using is exactly the same as a chunk of iron ore out of the bottom of a furnace in Pittsburgh. How many would he sell if he advertised it as "ordinary iron ore slag?"

When a very reputable knife sharpening supply dealer (who's compound products are some of the very best available and at good prices) decided to sell glass butcher/meatpacker's steels, he didn't offer 'glass butcher steels.' Instead, he advertised "Borosilicate Glass Butcher Steels!" And priced them at about $70 each. Most folks had never heard of borosilicate glass, and knowing that this company did produce excellent products, figured these must be pretty damn good! And they are! Borosilicate glass is perfect for use in the kitchen before cutting up meat or veggies, used exactly like any metal 'steel.' But.....

.... Borosilicate glass is dirt cheap. It's cheaper than the glass used for your kitchen drinking glasses. It's cheaper than window glass. And most likely, each and every one of us already has some in their house! You can buy a borosilicate glass pie plate, meatloaf pan, measuring cup, etc., etc., in every neighborhood supermarket, Dollar Shop, home center, department store, in just about every country in the world. You know borosilicate glass by its common name....'Pyrex.' Look at the bottom of the glass baking dishes in your kitchen. Then touch up your edges on the rim of the dish... and save $70. I had a local chemical supply shop make a borosilicate glass rod for me shaped like a regular steel. (Most laboratory glassware is made of borosilicate glass.) Took two days and cost about $5. Maybe it was $8... It was many years ago. I wrapped a handle around one end, and have been using it in my kitchen for years.

Hey, if you're rich and don't mind wasting money, go for the $70 glass rod instead of the $5 one. It won't work better, but you get bragging rights.
If you don't mind spending $60 on a small bottle of diamond compound because it has 7 karats of diamond rather than the $10 bottle with only 4 karats, go for it. You might be able to save 2-3 strokes on your stropping for that $50. But you do get bragging rights. We've already discussed spending the extra money for Siberian Snow Leopard leather rather than cowhide...

As long as the grit size is uniform, and the shape is the correct one for the job, (i.e mono vs poly) the diamond spray/paste/powder is going to work. Then it's a matter of how much you are willing to spend for roughly the same stuff. (Note that I said 'roughly.' The difference might be a few extra stropping strokes.) $60 or $10. With the glass rods, $70 or $5. And the glass is exactly the same... $65 more for the exotic name. But you do get bragging rights.




Stitchawl
 
My post has nothing to do with the name on the bottle. The fact of the matter is that neither Poly or Mono slurrys or emulsions make a bright white compound. Aluminium Oxide on the other hand does.

For example , here we have a Poly Slurry , with a known carat weight and particle size distribution , this bottle is pure diamond , with no other abrasives added in.



Notice the color? Dark grey / Almost Black.

Fwiw the little stropper website is gone , and the websites they sold through over on B&B are gone. So it looks like yes they did go out of business. Just pawning off the last of his stock via fleabay no doubt.

This is the first of 3 posts on a blog that outline what we are talking about. And is an excellent read for anyone who is looking into stropping compounds.
http://precisesharpening.blogspot.ca/2010/12/part-1-comparison-of-three-quarter.html
 
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Also I would strongly recommend against blending up your own Diamond Dust , if you don't understand how particle agglomeration works then it most certainly wont work for its intended purpose..
 
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