Structured abasives.

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I just wanted to see what people's thoughts are on the various structured abrasives that are available. The only I know of are the 3 trizact microreplocated, macroreplicated (gator grit), and norax.

I haven't tried norax yet, and I don't have a huge amount of experience with the microreplicated trizact belts. I have one that I accidentally ordered instead of the gator grit, its a30 (micron I believe). So fairly fine for a belt. I just ordered more gator grit belts the other day that I'm still waiting to get shipped.

I have definitely noticed they leave a nice finish, and the gator grit in particular seem to not get as hot as normal belts. The life seems to be quite a bit longer than average if used correctly too. I'll usually take a piece of metal and resurface the belt when I notice they aren't cutting well anymore.

I would just like to hear anyone's thoughts on structured abrasive belts. Are their any other off brand structured abrasive belts out their? Anyone have any luck with other belts besides the regular traditional belts? Anyone have any tips or tricks with them? I tend to work with higher wear resistant steels when I get the chance, does anyone have any recommendations for those kinds of steels. I've heard diamond micron belts work well for it, but I would just be worried they wont last long.
 
I’ve tried trizact and I do not like them.
I do really like the Norax belts, but you do need to be aware that there are several different “grades“
The U264 belts are the best overall in my opinion, they cut really well and leave a really nice finish, the only down side is you can’t get them wet.
The U254 belts are similar to the U264, but the U254 belts are really designed for small contact wheels.
Then there’s the U936 belts, those are ceramic. (the others are aluminum oxide) but they don’t cut as well and don’t leave as nice a finish, the upsides are, though I haven’t tried any really hard super steel with the U936 yet, I would assume because they are ceramic that they would work with the really hard super steel better then the others, the other upside is that you can wet grind with them.
I think there’s a few more grades of Norax, but haven’t tried them.
That’s just my two cents.

Joseph
 
I use the Norax structure abrasive as a finishing belt same as the gators. They are B Team, the A Team are 50grit, 100 grit
 
Will say I do notice that the structured abrasive belts I've tried can have the problem of not breaking down quite like a normal ceramic belt does. When I notice for that reason I tend to keep a scrap piece of steel close by so I can use it to break off the dull abrasive.

I just take a corner, and apply it while the belt is running, with heavy pressure. Usually that does the trick. So doing this I've made then outlast any of my other belts by quite a lot. Also I read on the 3m site (I believe it was talking about the gator grit, that or the other trizact, not sure) that they work well with high pressure. Though I haven't actually tried that myself, because I don't want to burn up my blades.

Also I guess technically the cubitron belts do have structured abrasive in them, although, it's not quite in the same way as the trizact, and norax belts do. I've heard really good things about the cubitron belts, I've also heard they probably aren't worth the price though. Anyone know if it would be worth it for stuff like cpm 10v?
 
Yes, not breaking down is an issue. Especially when finishing thin hardened steel. It can burn rather fast.
The best I have tried yet in terms of that is VSM KK772J, by far. It's just great. KK712X is also good but stiffer so harder to make nice plunges with.
I regret buying especially the Deerfos one I have tried, they are really hard to break. I keep a diamond file close for that.

Trizact are second to VSMs.
 
I like the Norax U264, but the grit falls off in chunks if they get wet. I like the Trizact Gators (300, 160, 100, 65, 45, 30 in the 347 series, which is the water proof version with the white backer. The dark maroon/brownish backer (337 series) isn't waterproof and the grit comes off in chunks if they get wet like the norax. I found that a diamond crusted dressing tool used to re true/dress a bench grinding wheel works VERY well to clean out the Gators, which glaze over easily. Couple seconds and the belt is cutting like new again! It will remove abrasive though, but I have used belts down very far where the blocks aren't very tall at all! I tried the finer pattern gators and didn't really care for them many years ago. For 120 and 220 grit belts, I use the Hermes J Flex ceramic green abrasive belts now since I can clean up my plunges and grinds with the same belt and the 220 is pretty good at removing material from a hardened blade! I believe Red Label has a flexible ceramic belt up to 400, maybe 600 now, too that I want to try out.

Sun has a new SunMax belt that is a structured abrasive. I have it in M45, M30, M16 and M5. It works well and doesn't seem to glaze over, but I also run it on felt or leather platens and they are pretty fine belts. They have a diamond shaped grit pattern. I think it would work very well on rubber wheels, too. They are flexible and thin, so may not be the best choice on a steel or glass platen due to splice bump. They seem to handle getting wet from my limited use with them as well.
 
I've been using Norax belts quite a lot lately and they're pretty great in my opinion. I strongly suggest that if you want to know what's what, read the brochure for accurate information
 
I also use trizact belts and since I started refreshing them every now and then with rough diamond file I'm pretty happy with the results. And I think they provide better work/price ratio than the non structured belts that I use.

And something that is not mentioned here - Mercurit belts - its aluminum oxide 400 grit made by hermes , it looks like small pellets randomly glued on the belt. Like cork belt , but instead of corc particles covered with abrasive - solid abrasive paarticles. It generates more heat than the trizact . Works good when I refresh it with diamond file.
 
Dimitar Popov said:
I also use trizact belts and since I started refreshing them every now and then with rough diamond file I'm pretty happy with the results. And I think they provide better work/price ratio than the non structured belts that I use.

And something that is not mentioned here - Mercurit belts - its aluminum oxide 400 grit made by hermes , it looks like small pellets randomly glued on the belt. Like cork belt , but instead of corc particles covered with abrasive - solid abrasive paarticles. It generates more heat than the trizact . Works good when I refresh it with diamond file.
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I'll check those out. Idk if I had heard of those.

I just got some of the trizact with the reddish backing. the 100, and 65 micron (180, and 240 grit) I just tried out the 65. Really good results so far. I had only tried the ones with the white backing before (the 160, 65, and 45). I actually really like how these ones cut so far. I will definitely keep in mind that they aren't waterproof though.
 
FredyCro said:
I would link, but it is not allowed under new rules.
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You can write a search string to say where you can find them...
Like search Amazon for "Billy-bob's pretty good whiz-bang gadget"
 
A.McPherson said:
You can write a search string to say where you can find them...
Like search Amazon for "Billy-bob's pretty good whiz-bang gadget"
Click to expand...
I think it's obvious enough that you should google for "VSM Actirox" and it will be the first pop, there are pdf documents with exact types and grits and for what materials and types of grinding which Actirox should be used for.
 
Oh sure, I agree with most things it's pretty obvious, but sometimes you have to have very specific search terms.
 
I think proper ceramic structured abrasives are probably going to be the future of knife grinding, or finishing, or in my mind it at least has the potential to be.

Speaking of potential, I wonder what could be done to make silicon carbide belts that hold up to knife making. If they could potentially use the same kind techniques to get a SiC structured abrasive. I honestly don't know a terrible amount about the engineering that goes into making a belt like that, but I could see some huge benefits to having the harder abrasive, that are cheaper than cbn, and diamond. I doubt getting it to perform would be simple though.

Edit: it looks like some of the trizact are actually silicon carbide. I had only ever seen the aluminum oxide trizact belts. I'll look a bit more into it. Idk what grit range they are offered in.
 
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Trizact are finishing belts. (higher grits) I use trazact for finishing and Norton Blaze for removal. Abrasives are pretty simple. There's amount of coverage and how its bonded, typically "ROR" resin over resin. then there's the actual abrasives used, the way they fracture, it's a relatively science based deal as is everything we do. Yes they are SiC. Al2O3 is handle material stuff or extremly fine surface finishing (1200+). Ceramic is already the current brother FYI hah.
Blankblank said:
I think proper ceramic structured abrasives are probably going to be the future of knife grinding, or finishing, or in my mind it at least has the potential to be.

Speaking of potential, I wonder what could be done to make silicon carbide belts that hold up to knife making. If they could potentially use the same kind techniques to get a SiC structured abrasive. I honestly don't know a terrible amount about the engineering that goes into making a belt like that, but I could see some huge benefits to having the harder abrasive, that are cheaper than cbn, and diamond. I doubt getting it to perform would be simple though.

Edit: it looks like some of the trizact are actually silicon carbide. I had only ever seen the aluminum oxide trizact belts. I'll look a bit more into it. Idk what grit range they are offered in.
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They are actually very intensely engineered....just saying.
 
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Super_Alloy_Alan said:
Trizact are finishing belts. (higher grits) I use trazact for finishing and Norton Blaze for removal. Abrasives are pretty simple. There's amount of coverage and how its bonded, typically "ROR" resin over resin. then there's the actual abrasives used, the way they fracture, it's a relatively science based deal as is everything we do. Yes they are SiC. Al2O3 is handle material stuff or extremly fine surface finishing (1200+). Ceramic is already the current brother FYI hah.

They are actually very intensely engineered....just saying.
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Well when I said the thing about ceramic abrasive, I was talking about having it in a structured for like a trizact (rather than in a cubitron structured abrasive style) for potentially better results finishing hard material, like the stuff we work with.

As far as I can tell, there is only one type of the trizact belts that are sic. The rest like the popular among knife maker, gator grit are structured aluminum oxide.

I'm aware they are very intensely engineered. Which is what my comment about not know everything that goes into the engineering of these belts involves. Meaning I doubt I would have a full understanding of the testing, physics, chemistry, and general planning that it takes to create these belts.

Which I was also meant towards my idea that a ceramic alumina (trizact gator grit style) structured abrasive may not be ideal, or even possible. In a way that is either financially feasible, or physically realistic.
 
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Norax U264 is my favourite structured abrasive belt, and the 100 micron Norax is probably my most used belt. It's like a 240 grit belt with a thick cushioned backing that lasts a long time. Actual grit equivalent is more like 180.
They're easy to refresh with a light pass with a file card or wire brush. They last a long time, compared to something like a J-flex.

I liked Trizact Gators a lot, but I've had a lot of them break for no apparent reason and found them more difficult to refresh and don't feel I get my money's worth out of them like I do with Norax.

I've tried regular Trizact but don't like them at all. I had people tell me they're great and better than Norax because they last a long time. Maybe they do, it's too bad they don't cut to begin with.
 
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