Stunguns for snakebites??

B

bcurran

Joined
Jan 31, 1999
Messages
232
Didn't know what tho think when I went to the forums store to look at the stunguns! The first Mace model is stated as being "perfect for snake bites". Is this actually a figure of speach describing the feel from the shock?
That's what I hope anyway!
 
Arrrrggg. Looks like Spark is having fun with text!

Actually snake venom attacks the muscle. If the muscle is highly contracted then it is harder for the venom to get in. The Stun Gun aids in this regard and about 100,000 volts will do it. Actually the 13-18 milliamps is what does it.

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Mike Turber
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My father was stung by a scorpion while in Africa. He had heard of using stun guns on snakebites and figured he didn't have anything to lose by trying it for scorpion stings--said it worked like a charm, reduced swelling and pain very quickly!
 
Mike, hate to disagree with you but stun guns for snake bite is complete BS. Not all snake venom reacts in the body the same way due to be different toxins, but even at that, the stun gun does not work in the way you described. In all actuality, a stun gun is only useful for increasing the patients heart rate, scaring them, making them more nervous, which increases blood flow. Which is exactly the worst thing you can do for snake bite.

First of all not all snake bite from venomous specie is a hot bite (maximum evonomation). There are different levels of envenomation from none at all to maximum.

The Sawyers Extractor is the best treatment. If you can apply the SE within 2-3 minutes you can extract up to 30 percent of the injected venom. At 30 minutes, it's about 3 percent.

Snake bite is something I have studied extensively after becoming a victim of a 'warm' copperhead bite. I have also been bitten numerous times by non-venomous snakes. All of these have been my fault.

Also, my wife is an RN and has treated many serious and non-serious snake bite victims at the hospital she works at.

Although I will get disagreement on this issue, there are no such thing as the quote '2 stepper' snakes in the U.S. Death fom snake bite is extremely rare, and critical stages from hot bites are usually not reached for several hours in healthy victims. Snake bite is nowhere near the threat as anaphylactic shock, heat stroke, and many other wilderness emergencies.

Also, never try to kill or catch a snake that has bitten someone else. This increases the chances for another victim, and in many cases the hospital does not use antivenin so snake identification is not top priority.

Cutting the bite and tourniquets are also wrong. Keeping the victim calm, keeping the bitten limb at or below heart level and try to immobilize the limb. Then proceed with calm evauation to a primary care facility. Time is a factor so don't waste time on BS myths and cures and begin first aid and evacuation immediately. If you can't find your Sawyers Extractor within the first couple of minutes, begin first aid and evacuate. Last, treat all snake bite as possible envenomation.

The hot bite victim will be in pain and swelling will occur but calm actions and reassuring the patient will go a long way in surviving. Especially since their worst nightmare has come true.

Summerland, very, very few scorpion bites are deadly and usually are the equivalent to a hard hornet sting or bullet ant sting. Granted some African specie are killers. Generally scorpions hurt like hell and swells for a while but typically not deadly. With any sting, allergic reaction is usually the deadliest affect.

If I had my choice of a Sawyers Extractor or Bee Sting kit with injectable Epinephrine for the wilderness, I would choose the bee sting kit, since anaphylactic shock cannot be cured with anything but this, and can kill in minutes.

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com



[This message has been edited by JeffRandall (edited 11 November 1999).]
 
Mike, I went over and read the piece you linked to in your message. I don't know who Bayou Bob is, but his methods are very misleading and possibly dangerous, and to be frank...he's an idiot.

The cut and suck method can actually increase envenomation thru capillaries/veins being cut, likely increases infection, and wastes valuable time.

The cold pack is useless since it does NOT deactivate snake venom and swelling will occur regardless in a hot bite. Restricting bands are only used in certain types of snake venom, with most of these being found in Australia.

My information and certifications come from hours of study and practice with A-Team field medics from the 20th SFG, the Society of Wilderness Medicine, the National Safety Council, and hours of hands on in the field with actual first aid situations.

I don't write this as an 'opinion,' since wilderness emergencies are the worst place to practice opinions. It worries me that any instructional information is given out on a forum concerning life and death medical issues unless it has been thoroughly researched and tested.

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info!
This is really a great place indeed!

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

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Mike,

You wouldn't happen to have another stun gun and a rattlesnake to send to Cougar?
wink.gif



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Howard Wallace
Khukuri FAQ

 
Hey thanks for the responses, and info! Good to see I'm not the only one with a sense of humor. On that note, hypothetically speaking, how many "zaps" would it take per bite?
 
While I have little direct experience with snake bite, I live amongst some of the deadliest snakes in the world (in a rural part of sub-tropical Australia). So I try to keep up. Jeff's posts contain some of the best snake stuff I have read. The "cut and suck" method has been discredited ,here, for a while. The "tight stretch bandage and immobilise" system seems to be the way to go.
Getting to medical assistance is absolutely critical.....antivenenes for most of our species are on hand and are going to make the difference.
Yep, Mike......we learn some great stuff, here.

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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343

 
Brian,

The elastic bandage wrap is a suggested use, as you state, for many of the Australian specie. This is due to certain types of venom traveling the lymphatic system which is located close to the skin. When using constricting bands they should be loose constriction (being able to slip 2 fingers under the bandage). With most of our snakes in the States constricting bandages are not required or suggested.

You have some nasty snakes down there as far as concentration of poison in the venom and venom types. Antivenin, in my opinion, may be used more regular there due to this.

Many people are allergic to antivenin and must be monitored for reactions when it's applied, and it's not just a one-dose-and-you're-cured type deal. That's the reason antivenin should not be used away from a primary care facility.

bcurran, as far as the number of shocks required...as many as it takes to knock them out or kill them so death will be easier than their leg turning black, swelling to 5 times it's size, lungs shutting down, all the vomiting, glassy eyes, and derranged personality. Besides, who wants to have their hike cut short by having to haul a little ol' snake bite victim to the hospital...hey maybe stun guns do have a place
smile.gif


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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
"You wouldn't happen to have another stun gun and a rattlesnake to
send to Cougar?"

Does the rattlesnake enjoy romantic candlelight dinners, quiet evenings at home by the fireplace, picnics, classical music and modern jazz? Is she 21-35, single or divorced with no children, fun-loving, creative, adventurous, looking for a good time, tired of the singles bar scene, trim figure, good sense of humor? Please send photo.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
I got some email ... apparently I misunderstood the offer ... never mind.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
I've been thinking about this ... how could a rattlesnake send email? Have I been hoaxed???

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
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