Stupid Stove Top Story.

Originally posted by beoram


So were you trying to 'anneal' them? If I understand the process, it isn't really softening them so much as it is making them less brittle--is that right, or I am thinking of something else?

B.
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Ben the tangs should be dead soft on a khukuri or any other rat tail tanged knife.
Annealing them is indeed softening them and making them less brittle both.
The only time this problem comes up has been around Dassien when the kamis get in a hurry to get enough production to last Uncle Bill through the holidays.
Water gets splashed on a hot tang and it's instant disaster just waiting to happen.:(
 
Dave: As far as Mapp setups go, I've seen one that may fit the bill. I don't know the manufacturer, but a company makes single, double, and triple headed torches to be used in association with Mapp for sweating large ( >2" ) copper by yourself. I remember discussing the novelty of the item with one of the guys at a local plumbing supply house. I'm certain the triple headed torch would supply the necessary BTU's to get a rat tail tang warmed up if you want to go that route.

I still think Yvsa's advice the best, however. Let the welder crank up his "rosebud" tip and the tang will be like butta.......Sorry, I'm Vaklempt....Welding always does that to me:rolleyes:

-Craig
 
Don't feel bad Dave, I tried it myself not half a year ago, so I could reshape a full tang to take a shorter set of slabs. Didn't turn out for me either.
 
Originally posted by Yvsa


Ben the tangs should be dead soft on a khukuri or any other rat tail tanged knife.
Annealing them is indeed softening them and making them less brittle both.
The only time this problem comes up has been around Dassien when the kamis get in a hurry to get enough production to last Uncle Bill through the holidays.
Water gets splashed on a hot tang and it's instant disaster just waiting to happen.:(
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Just curious, why should the tangs be so soft on a rat tail tang? I can see that they should be flexible and not brittle, but what does softness lend?

thanks, B.
 
The tang is by far the weakest link. It tapers down to about an 1/8th inch and if it's hard it is destined to break sooner or later. If it's soft it won't break and it'll also absorb some shock.
 
Originally posted by Bill Martino
The tang is by far the weakest link. It tapers down to about an 1/8th inch and if it's hard it is destined to break sooner or later. If it's soft it won't break and it'll also absorb some shock.
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There's your answer Ben.
I personally feel that the rat tail tang is the best design ever concieved for a knife or any other tool handle. When properly done they're just as strong as a full tang and with much less vibration,IMO!!!!
It also saves on precious steel, although that's not really a concern anymore.
And the rtt enables a peice of wood or other material to surround the steel or iron covering it entirely while leaving beautiful burled wood grain intact!!!!:cool:
I haven't ever had a knife or any other tool made from good malleable iron and then edged with good high carbon steel, but I could really get into some real research if one was available to me.
I have some theories about such an instrument, but no way to prove them and not really enough edumacation to properly test such a thing, but I think a lot could be learned from just using such a knife.:)
It's interesting to ponder over anyway, at least to me.:D
 
Interesting notion, Bro. Borrow a welding machine next time we have a get together in Catoosa and we'll make one.
 
Yvsa,

How about a Japanese high carbon steel edge clad in wrought iron? Presumably the tang is wrought iron too. Rockwell 63. Granted these are kitchen knives, not log splitters. See Tosagata Hocho on the web page below. The santoku looks to to be the stoutest.

http://www.justknives101.com/Japanese_Imports/japanese_imports.html

I also posted a different link to similar knives on Jim F's recent "Care of Horn Handles" thread.

I was seriously looking at buying such a kitchen knife before I found out about HI khuks, since my most frequent knife use is cooking. But I have a set of pretty good Solingen kitchen knives that do what kitchen knives should do, although maybe not as well as the Japanese ones. I had nothing that could come anywhere near to doing what a khukuri can do, so I went for the khuk instead.

Absolutely no regrets, I might add.

And yes, I have insomnia today.
 
Hey SamuraiDave, couple of things to consider- 1)Is the blade(not the khuk blade,the one with the broken tip) plain ole high carbon steel,or is it some new high fallutin stainless? Many stainless alloys won't soften significantly at the temps you've been acheiving 2)Even if you reach critical temp with carbon steel, if you let it cool in ambient air the steel will be normalized and not annealed. It will definitely be tougher than it was, and softer, but it isn't annealed. To properly anneal it it most be brought to just above the point of non-magnetic, held for a bit, and allowed to cool VERY slowly in a hot box, old ashes, vermiculite, or some other good insulator. Just some stuff to ponder, wish you success with your endeavor and adios- stevomiller
 
I decided not to mess with the tang (still as hard as my files), and put some 1/4" oak slabs on the sucker with 2-ton epoxy and 1/8" steel pins. The tip is now ground to a chisel point thanks to my diamond sharpener.

The oak was $.98 for around 2' at the local hardware store. (They have some neat stuff in the furniture section.) I had the epoxy on hand.

Yeah, it is ugly but I dont mind it as a user. The steel should hold an edge, and if it gets destroyed, oh well.
 
Originally posted by firkin
Yvsa,

How about a Japanese high carbon steel edge clad in wrought iron? Presumably the tang is wrought iron too. Rockwell 63. Granted these are kitchen knives, not log splitters. See Tosagata Hocho on the web page below. The santoku looks to to be the stoutest.

http://www.justknives101.com/Japanese_Imports/japanese_imports.html

I also posted a different link to similar knives on Jim F's recent "Care of Horn Handles" thread.
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Firkin I have long admired the Japanese cooking knive's. But most of them have been more than I wanted to spend. The ones on another link, perhaps the other one you posted, had some prices that aren't too bad although the knives themselves aren't pretty.
Yet in my opinion pretty is is as pretty does.
If they function as they should then looks are just that, looks.
It appears that I can get a whole set for less than a couple a hundred while some of the others I've looked at the same amount would maybe have covered 1 1/2 knives, perhaps 2 or 2 1/2 if they were small.:)
I have 3 years left that I can dedicate *some* income to knives, after that I'm going to have to slow way, way down but I will by then have a pretty nice collection, aready do for that matter.:D
I went way out a while back on some sharpening equipement when I found out tha Shopsmith was having a sale.
I got a couple of Spydeco bench stones, a Spydy pocket stone with two different sides and a couple or three water stones in varying grits and then a real nice 12" Washita set with 3 stones in it, so I'm set on that for the rest of my life.:)

Good show Dawi. Users that one can beat around are always tops in being an old favorite it seems.
I still have an old cheap Spanish blade that had a real cheap molded hard plastic handle on it that boke off one day when I was cuttin something really stiff and putting a lot of pressure on the handle.
Thing is, is that the blade, even with its really short tang is a wonderful little piece of steel.
It will take an edge and hold it almost as well as a piece of power hacksaw blade properly ground without burning it will and is almost as hard to sharpen its so hard.
One of these days it will be turned into a good karda for a good using khukuri.:)
What's really wonderful about the little thing is that I only paid $2.50 for it several years ago for a toolbox knife.:D
It has more than exceeded my expectations with its steel quality!!!!
 
Yvsa,

After I got some waterstones, I dug out a sorta cheap thin stainless chef's knife that for years was my only kitchen knife except for a series of really cheap parers. After grinding down the intregal tang and puting some belly back in it on my oregon stone, I took the waterstones to it.

Now I use it for almost all cooking chores. It's so much thinner and lighter than the most of Henkles stuff I have (fortunately, I got most of them on sale). Really outslices and out dices them.

Also got a couple of chinese cleavers at an asian store for 10-15 bucks. Ones real thick and pretty soft (hmm, I now know it wants a convex edge!), one's thin and surprisingly hard for the money. I've yet to get out a couple of knicks that got in the thin ones edge somehow.

I'd sell most of Henkles the stuff if I thought I could get anything for it, and buy a two or three affordable carbon steel japanese knives.

And yes, prices on some of the japanese stuff goes to infinity and beyond. Though, I've heard of pretty amazing prices there for a single piece of fruit.
 
Firkin,

It sounds like you are a major kitchen cooker. Right now I dont have any particular "kitchen knives" but I make what I have work. Mainly my JKM, big enough to be bad yet small enough to be agile.

If you want to, get a JKM or a Kumar Karda and see how they stack up edge wise in the kitchen against some of your other knives. I can even see a 12" AK being used as one of those rocking vegetable slicers.

I think it would be a cool comparison.
 
Hmmm, actually I've been considering the Khukuri Kitchen Cleaver. I,m thinking of something 10 to 12 inches long, almost all belly around 3 to 3 1/2 deep so you could keep the curve for chopping on a flat surface without hitting the butt. Think of a Ganga Ram Special compressed lenthwise but retaining all the belly. But I've little clue how to balance it except that I think some wacky fullering would be needed.
 
Another model?
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maybe, but not in the near future, I'm afraid.

I'm sure I'd have to have a couple goes in balsa before I went to real wood. And I've truely no idea how to get the balance right from handling a wood model. Other than a handsome appearance, the magic balance for that effortless chopping power is what makes it worthwhile to consider. How to combine that balance with a thinner than usual edge and a thick spine so you can also precisely place the blade and strike it through by striking the spine with the hand may be well beyond my abilities.

I'll let you know if I start buying balsa, though.
 
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