Suburban Survival

PrimitiveMan said:
Liberals keep trying to take guns away and don't own any, so, just go take what you want!

This has a two fold effect. You get to eat and they finally understand why the second amendment is so important.

Kind of a win-win, ya know?
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LOL! Don't count on it! :D I live in a Liberal house, but anyone who attempts to take what they want without asking will be greeted by a number of firearms pointed in their direction :mad: (three brothers)...

I don't consider self-defense a political issue. Just a basic human right. :thumbup:

EDITED to add smileys...
 
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Ya better have a LOOOOOOOng extension cord,

The delaware river gets mighty wide as you travel south. LOL

A boat isn't a bad idea, but I am sure the coast guard will have things sufficiently locked down
 
I'm confused - Atlantic City is an island, but last I checked, NJ wasn't an island. And while it has a high population density, last time I drove through, it had some low density areas. even trails and utility rights of way that were hikeable.

So I'm at a total loss here. Apparently if you live in NJ, which is a state sized island city (?) you have no choice but to bug in.

Boats *are* a good option- and they are a good option because you can bug out early as a "weekend trip" and see how things go. Assuming the emrgency is a pandemic flu- which seems to be the only possible disaster scenario for some reason (?)- the Coasties may try to limit what comes into port (or marina) but I don't see them having the manpower to successfully lock down people getting ON the boats (and leaving the marina or not, as the case may be)
 
It would seem that they would be far too tough to eat. Of course, there is Helen Hunt and some others. :D
 
if you had the time to dig the pit, most outhouses where I'm from were about 8-10feet deep with a foot of gravel on the bottom, I think. the water soaks into the ground, and the solids rot down. better option would be to use weeping tiles as a septic field, pretty common up here, and you could install it pretty easy with no one thinking much of it.
 
Now, to take the topic seriously- we have several different types of disasters. And several different types of survival.

One thing to note is that if we *are* talking about Absecon, or Brigantine or whatever Island, even- you are 5-15 minutes paddling from the mainland in calm weather. This brings up the "what do you need to bug out" question- There are people who -no BS, this is real- won't bug out with less than a fully stuffed f350 and trailer, loaded to 500 pounds over max with ....stuff. And they don't even have kids!!!!!

Bugging out versus buggin-in is a huge decision on a long term emergency, but less so on a short term emergency like a nasty hurricane that makes it up to MD somehow or something.

You need to look at food storage and preparation, water, defense, and ways to get out if you need to. Rememer that a car, sevylor inflatable rowboat, a bike, these are all ways to carry you and your stuff.

i'm not advocating buggin out as the primary option, but it can be a needed option. There's no way, no how, I'd stay in an urban area when services were going down for weeks, for example.

Now, you did title this "surburban survival", so let's say that there is some square blokc in NJ that isn't urban and can be defined as suburban (can someone tell me what state the pine barrens are part of now that they've seceded from NJ?) so in that block of surburbia, you have different thnigs to look at- a naighborhood watch group would be fine as a core to build a survival group around. You don't even necessarily have to mention it, just have a few extra things laying around in case. You can have a garden, fish ponds, even rain barrels. Possibly a food cellar.
 
NJ is an island because to get out, you MUST cross a bridge.

I was thinking of more of a scenario where they were locking things down. If everyone is trying to leave at the same time, you are going nowhere. If they close off the bridges they will likely enact the Marine police and coast guard to shut down the docks/ports.

Keep this in mind folks, NJ has 8.6 MILLION people in it. By comparison, Wyoming has 650,000.

If something major were to happen, your choice of "bugging out" would be a pipe dream.
 
I think for most people in most scenarios bugging in is the more realistic option. Even assuming you get to your ideal remote spot, how mwny people is it likely to be able to support and for how long? There are going to be LOTS of people looking to get out of Dodge, all with varying states of preparation and varying states of mind.

I'd rather take my chances with a months worth of food and water at my well defended home. If I still need to (and am still able to) bug out after that, at least the initial fireworks will be over!

Thoughts on this are appreciated.
 
PrimitiveMan said:
NJ is an island because to get out, you MUST cross a bridge.
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Flat out wrong. Period. Dot.

Sure, most of the major roads, going anywhere (but why would you be trying to go to philly, or DE, or....), but you can walk right across to NY (the state, which has 20 million people, so you better stay hooooome!!!!) anywhere along the line.

Seriously, "Why do you want to cross a &^*#@ bridge? What, you going to PHILLY during a distaster? Go to upstate NY, cross at the state parks, maroon!" - actual commentary from a NJ native while I'm discussing this at my house. She has a way with words.

PrimitiveMan said:
I was thinking of more of a scenario where they were locking things down. If everyone is trying to leave at the same time, you are going nowhere. If they close off the bridges they will likely enact the Marine police and coast guard to shut down the docks/ports.
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1: that's locking down a LOT of boats, and I mean, a LOT of boats. we don't have the ARMY to lock down the population, the coast guard sure doesn't have the manpower to lock down small craft especially if they are trying to secure the national borders.

2: If everyone is trying to leave at the same time- which is NOT necessarily the case- you go a different way. Fortunately, NJ is not an Island.


PrimitiveMan said:
Keep this in mind folks, NJ has 8.6 MILLION people in it. By comparison, Wyoming has 650,000.

If something major were to happen, your choice of "bugging out" would be a pipe dream.
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Look at a population map- those people are not spread evenly like butter on your bread, there. this random number is not more than a distraction. There's countryside, barrens, mountains, swaps- there's places with few people in EVERY state. You don't have to move to Wyoming to have room to bug out (there's a serious logical break in the thought that you bring up, maybe the idea of bugging out is poorly understood)

As I say- there are situations to bug in, and situations to bug out. Suggesting staying locked up in your house no matter what happens just because your state has a population? Weird, but we all need a methodology.

For the OP- it does matter where he is and what paths he has. Not all disasters are the 1918 flu.
 
Koyote, with all due respect, you need to look at a map.

No, the population is not spread like butter, there are MAJOR pockets, in the North AND South, including Ghetto areas of Camden, Atlantic City, Trenton and several near NYC. The only major highways are 295, the NJ turnpike and the Garden State Parkway, none of which run up the western side of the state near the NY border.

NJ has become VERY densely populated. The ONLY area that is really condusive to bugging out is the pine barrens. Batsto, Wharton State forest and the area around Fort Dix (which might be a bad place to bug out to depending on the sitch)

I went to Valley forge today for the gun show, It took me over 2 hours to get back at 2:30 in the afternoon. That's a NORMAL Saturday. Can you imagine what would happen during a crisis?

I would NOT want to cross a bridge! I would certainly plan on bugging in, but if you HAD to bug out, you tell me where someone who lives in NJ 20 miles south of philly can WALK across a border!

You would have to drive several hours North, on local roads, PAST the Delaware water gap, up to the very tip, then maybe, JUST MAYBE you would be able to cross with the other several million trying to leave at the same spot.

It might not be a "true" island, but it is one seriously isolated peninsula.
 
MVF said:
I think for most people in most scenarios bugging in is the more realistic option. Even assuming you get to your ideal remote spot, how mwny people is it likely to be able to support and for how long? There are going to be LOTS of people looking to get out of Dodge, all with varying states of preparation and varying states of mind.
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There's nothing wrong with planning to stay put in the right situation- and nothing wrong with planning to bug out in the right situation. People do tend to think of bugging out in a very.... 12th century military- or perhaps "french" sort of way. Move from city to mothership-uberfortress and park forever. (or, move you troops into the maginot line and park your butt)

Bugging out means moving around- there's no specific rule or law of nature that says you have to be bugging out to somewhere, let alone a fortress stocked for x number of people for y days at z calories.

I've run into people who refuse to even consider bugging out unless they own improved land out in the Great Wilderness. SO what happens when the chemical spill means they have to leave their town/region/ward/whatever for an indefinite period of time, and do so fairly quickly? The answer is "Rely on the government to handle the evacuation and FEMA camp." If that's the answer, then... well, fine. It's not my answer if I can do something better for myself and my family.

Bugging out is something that you do, even if you live in NYC, want to plan for. There's no gaurantee that everyone will try and leave, all at once. There's no gaurantee they won't, either. I can, fairly assuredly, promise that the vast majority f the people will have no knowledge of most of the alternative routes.

With bugging in, your plans should start with bugout minimums- if you have a space blanket you can use it in your bedroom as easily as the woods. Same with the pocket SW, the HT radio, even the light packable foods and water purifier. (Oh, i'd add in a few large bulk foods first and foremost if starting from scratch- super cheap canned chili and greenbeans and whatever I could eat cold if I had to.)
 
Bugging In, city style, flu lock down.

Non perishable foods 1 month.
Water 1month.
Heat 1 month. It is the fall/winter. If you have a fuel oil system, obtain oil earlier than normal.
Alternate heating method.
Lots of cash, in case power goes out, or worse case for bribing purposes.
Medications, over the counter and prescription. Cough/cold, anti-fever (tylenol/generic; motrin/generic), anti-diarrheals, pepto-bismol (a must), aspirin (a must), regular AZO if you have females or elderly, vitamins Multi especially, and vitamin C.

Multi-band radio, learn how to use and what channels are useful prior to lock down.
Batteries, rechargeable and normal. Rechargers,normal and solar (if possible).
Empty seperate fuel and water canisters, with seperate siphons available.

Other items to keep your sanity in a home lock down, games, books, etc.

Trading stock...extra food/batteries/otc meds are easy for this, Rot-gut too.

Maps or knowledge of where food is warehoused, medicine, city water storage facilities is also handy.
 
Oil of oregano (pure form from the mediteranean)will killl the virus and all other germs.It also kills anthrax.I could go on but look it up.Sorry fda.....
 
My late aunt Alice was 9 when the 1918 flu became widespread and started killing people. My grandfather moved her out of the city for about 6 months (boondocks of Wisconsin) until the situation started looking better. [She lived to be 89.]

I'm in the middle of Left Angeles so unless I likewise departed town, I think I'd be screwed. Two words to remember in the event of civil unrest in a place like Los Smogeles: Beta C-Mag.

DancesWithKnives
 
Basic survival,It's not rocket science.Anything can happen,natural disaster,economic collapse,civil war,martial law,disease,spend a little every week on supplies and soon enough you're prepared for anything.
Food,water,a way to boil and purify water and a way to protect your supplies.
A 50 pound bag of rice is around 20.00 bucks. Canned food is very cheap right now.When you NEED this stuff it won't be available and if it is it won't be cheap.
You should have at least a years supply of food,some to eat, some for barter.
Ammo and firearms for protection and barter, Cash, a large bolted down safe,flashlights,batteries,tools,lanterns and candles,first aid,medicine,extra glasses,contacts or whatever you need.
A semi auto rifle like an AR15,FAL,M1A or AK is a big advantage over a pistol in a gunfight,but a pistol is small enough to always have on you,you need both. As you want advise say Glock 17 and AR 15 will work have low recoil and women and children can handle them.A shotgun is nice as well,so are .22 pistols and rifles.
Cowards run in packs,you don't want just a pistol when facing groups of armed men.
Having your supplies will give you some peace of mind.
Growing up in South Florida I see people panic every hurricane season.Home depot and all the supermarkets with bare shelves,generators going for outrageous prices.
Not me,I sit back and enjoy the show.I'm prepared.
 
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