Sugar Creek Issues

G

gshamr

Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
178
I recently bought a Sugar Creek big knife kiln for the bargain price of $497.25 plus $140.00 shipping from IN to WA. I have a couple of questions and I also want to make this a public service announcement for anyone shopping for knife ovens in the future.

I bought the 24" manual model with the pyrometer and infinite switch. I couldn't spend a penny more and was irresponsible to spend this much right now, so I wouldn't have paid extra for an automatic control to be added. On the other hand, it doesn't list that option on their website and I didn't know it was an option. I guess you have to ask them about it.

I've done two large blades so far and the kiln heated up quickly enough on a 240 outlet I had installed. I would guess it took about 45-50 min to heat to 1750 deg. The first issue I had is with the infinite switch. I thought it would have a dial with different temp settings, such as a kitchen oven. The dial has low, numbers 1-6 then high. I put it on high and when i got to 1750 I scaled back a bit. With a little practice I could stop the temp for about 3 seconds, then it would very slowly start reducing. I would get to 1745 and tweak it up and it would stop and very slowly climb to 1755 before I would repeat the process. I have no problem spending 30 min doing this during a soak because I spend that much time trying to fix a grinding error. However, if there is a trick to get it to stay, someone let me know. I found a previous post where Don Hanson indicated a similar experience and he spent another $200 and got a auto controller from Sugar Creek.

The second issue I have is that the door doesn't stay open. It has a spring attached to help pull it closed and a sort of handle to open it. I didn't think anything of it and pulled out one blade on my own while holding the door open with the other hand. On a very large, machete size blade, I had my son hold open the door so I could use two pairs of tongs to avoid dropping it. None of this is a problem but I found a previous response from AcridSaint where he indicated the door on his SC small kiln stays open. Can someone else with a SC 24" kiln confirm whether their door stays open. THere is no device on mine to allow it to do so.

I emailed Sue at SC just now with these same questions and inquired about the current price of the the auto controller. I have to say they have been very prompt and friendly with all my questions.

Oh, the only other thing to note is that they no longer have to truck freight it. They have a way of packing it that UPS will accept. I came home to find it in front of my door. I live in a gated condo communtiy. It is packed very robustly with a lot of harded foam holding it in. There is a previous thread with photos and mine came exactly the same way.

Thanks for any replies.
Gerry Hamrick
 
gshamr said:
The second issue I have is that the door doesn't stay open. It has a spring attached to help pull it closed and a sort of handle to open it. I didn't think anything of it and pulled out one blade on my own while holding the door open with the other hand. On a very large, machete size blade, I had my son hold open the door so I could use two pairs of tongs to avoid dropping it. None of this is a problem but I found a previous response from AcridSaint where he indicated the door on his SC small kiln stays open. Can someone else with a SC 24" kiln confirm whether their door stays open. There is no device on mine to allow it to do so.


Thanks for any replies.
Gerry Hamrick
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Gerry,

I have a 24" Sugar Creek and my door stays open or closed with no problem. Did you open the door all the way? You have to open it 180 degrees from the closed position and then the spring will hold it there. In other words the door is held closed at the bottom of rotation, and open at the top of rotation when it is on top of the door frame area.

If you need a visual, e-mail me from my profile and I can send you a couple of pictures of mine holding the door open by itself.

Mike
 
Thanks, Mike!

Boy do I feel dumb. I thought the spring was just to hold it closed. I jut tried it and when you open the door all the way straight up, the spring changes angles and holds it open. That problem is solved.

BTW-For anyone buying one of these, don't let go of the open door and let it slam close. I slipped and did this when I first unpacked and examined the kiln and a small chunk of the firebrick fell out. It's pretty soft.
 
I am sure if you're a technically savvy, you could wire up your own digital controller using a PID from AUBRENS (spelling error?) a SSR and some other stuff. A lot of the guys on here could tell you how to do it specifically. (Stacy) Bladsmth is the guy I can think of right away !
 
Thanks, Pohan. I might do that in the future instead of paying for an auto control. Sugar Creek just quoted me $240 plus shipping and handling.

---------
Here is their response on the temp control with my manual model:

"Let us know if you get too much variance in temp. I know even the computers can float around in a 6 degree range."
Thank you
Sue
------------
I did two D-2 blade today and got to where it would go up to 1852 deg and then down to 1841 or 1842. I checked on it about every 5 min and can live with that variance for the low number of knives I make. I had to adjust about 1/16" at a time until I found the sweet spot. I hope this helps somebody in the future. I appear to be the only one who had any troubles with it.

Gerry
 
Gerry - I'm glad you figured out the problem with the door. I would like to make it clear though that I do not own a SC kiln, my good friend and mentor Alan Folts has one that I have heat treated many knives in and that is where I have based most of my experience. Wayne Whitley also had the 24" one that you purchased and I never heard him say he had any trouble with it. I think that you'll end up with years of happy heat treating with your oven.

As to the switch, there is no way to dial it in well that I know of. I have used several of these infinite switch ovens and they just don't hold a temp range like a controller can. The best advice that I can offer you is to heat treat many more items at once or simply get a large chunk of steel to go with your heat treating. When you fill it up, it will take much longer at the top end and your temperature swings will be much slower.

I bought a controller from Auber for my oven build (which I will finish sometime), if you don't need programming then you can wire the oven for quite a bit less than the $240 from SC. I also recommended Auber to Mike Fitzgerald to replace a broken controller on an ancient Paragon, thus far he hasn't reported any trouble with it and I've used the oven that he installed it on. As far as I know, that was the first PID he ever installed, not terribly complicated you just have to spend the time making sure you understand how the circuit is supposed to work.

All of that being said, I don't know what it will do to any support you might get from Sc if you put in your own controller.
 
Thanks for the info. I may add the controller on my own in the future and I'll bet it would void the SC warranty. On the other hand, these are fairly simple devices and the only thing likely to go wrong is a burned out element.. Right now I've got several blades to finish and need to stop spending money so I can change my timing belt.

The manual control is not that big of a deal for me. I tempered 3x today and that is more of an inconvenice than the heat treating..
 
i have the 24'' sc kiln, and have fell in love with it. cant believe i went so long with out one. as for the door issue, mine does stay open, and havent ever had any problems with it at all.

if anyone can answer a question i have, when heat treating, i use a piece of cast iron to heat my oil, and i have been wondering if the oil that is on it can create any problems while in the oven when it burns off ? i didnt know if the soot that it leaves could build up on electrical components inside and throw off the accuracy. maybe its nothing to worry about, any thoughts ?
 
atakach said:
i have the 24'' sc kiln, and have fell in love with it. cant believe i went so long with out one. as for the door issue, mine does stay open, and havent ever had any problems with it at all.

if anyone can answer a question i have, when heat treating, i use a piece of cast iron to heat my oil, and i have been wondering if the oil that is on it can create any problems while in the oven when it burns off ? i didnt know if the soot that it leaves could build up on electrical components inside and throw off the accuracy. maybe its nothing to worry about, any thoughts ?
Click to expand...

You're using a piece of cast iron to heat your quench oil? *confused* How does the piece of cast iron end up in the kiln?

I squirt WD-40 on my blades before i seal them up in the stainless steel foil and the most that happens is that it smells of oil a bit. No big deal, I just open up the garage a crack.
 
Leu - he heats the metal and then drops it in the oil to heat the oil. I don't think I'd want to do that but I don't know if it will hurt anything.
 
AcridSaint said:
Leu - he heats the metal and then drops it in the oil to heat the oil. I don't think I'd want to do that but I don't know if it will hurt anything.
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exactly, i mean there not dripping....well not usually:foot:, but even when wiped off the surface holds oil, and i didnt know if the guts could be harmed by the soot. i know its a bit primitave, but with a meat thermometer it gets the job done, until i hook up a heating element in the new quench tank.

the inside of the kiln isnt really even dirty inside, i guess i was just curious, shouldnt matter anyway, as i hope to have the new quench tank done within the week.

thanks
 
atakach said:
exactly, i mean there not dripping....well not usually:foot:, but even when wiped off the surface holds oil, and i didnt know if the guts could be harmed by the soot. i know its a bit primitave, but with a meat thermometer it gets the job done, until i hook up a heating element in the new quench tank.

the inside of the kiln isnt really even dirty inside, i guess i was just curious, shouldnt matter anyway, as i hope to have the new quench tank done within the week.

thanks
Click to expand...

So you're telling me you use your kiln to heat the piece of cast iron then throw it into your quench oil?

Why not just heat your piece of cast iron with a propane torch?

Maybe it's just late and I don't understand anything !!! :confused::confused:
 
gshamr said:
Do you squirt WD-40 on them because it takes the place of paper and eats up oxygen?
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Exactly ! Well sorta kinda. Since I heat treat A2, in my experience, after opening the foil packet (Without it being cooled enough to handle by hand) i'd get a lot of parts of the steel where it was steel color and other parts where it was rainbow patterned. This really irritated me as when you try to buff in those areas, you still see a ghostly pattern (unless you buff real real deep).

These days I just surface grind the flats after I heat treat the blade and don't really worry about that so much anymore. But from habit, I still put WD-40 all over the blade and when I cut the foil packet open, the oxygen attacks the WD-40 instead of the blade. Kinda weird. !

The better you make that seal in your foil packet I mean sealing it real real good on every crimp, you could have a blade that virtually comes out the same exact color as when you put it in the foil packet (provided that you don't cut it open till all the visible red heat is gone). When the red heat is gone, any chance of decarb goes away completely and then you know the foil packet did it's job, especially in the last few minutes/seconds after you take it out of the kiln.

Since I don't plate quench, I like to open them up almost when they are blazing hot hot hot ! :eek:
 
gshamr said:
Do you squirt WD-40 on them because it takes the place of paper and eats up oxygen?
Click to expand...

I don't really worry about oxygen when the blade is in the kiln at 1800 degrees.

Having paper inside can actually cause the foil packet to expand ! Another reason i don't use paper no mo !
 
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