Suggestion for Yangdu - A Well Intended Rant

W

Willieboy

Joined
Jul 4, 2002
Messages
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Before I begin, please be assured that what follows is intended to help, not hurt.

I grew up in Chicago where it snows a great deal. One of the really unbelievable things I learned there is that if one shovels their front sidewalk, their legal liability is much greater if someone slips on patch of ice that was missed, than if the homeowner did not bother to shovel at all. I think the reason is that the walker, seeing a shoveled sidewalk, had an expectation of safety and the homeowner was negligent (and liable) because they failed to remove a patch of ice. Maybe an attorney can correct me if I have it wrong.

I just received a Kerambit that has what has to be the worst sheath ever created. I've read many times that these Keramit sheaths were bad, but mine is an absolute hazard. I made the mistake of picking the knife and sheath up, as a unit, as I do many, many time each week with other knives. Apparently, I unconsciously grasped the sheath and not the knife. The next thing I knew, the knife was striking my porcelain tile kitchen floor, right beside my foot. Sheaths, are intended, in part, to protect the user of a knife from the blade. Therefore, when a sheath is delivered with the knife, an injured user could claim they had the expectation of safety, but their foot was cut off when the blade fell freely from the sheath. My Kerambit sheath does not provide any reasonable degree of safety. I will be sending my Kerambit off to Leatherface as soon as the details can be worked out.

So, on to my suggestion. Yangdu, I think you would be better off to provide no sheath at all, than a dangerous sheath. Then there would be no expectation of safety on the part of the user. Or alternatively, have a safe sheath made and charge a little more. Maybe Dan Koster, Fiddleback or Leatherface would be willing to work with HI in providing quality sheaths.

Best regards,

Bill
 
Is this the same kerambit you talk about in the other post? The one where you caution folks to not swing it around your finger near a waterbed?

I've handled many knives...the user needs to become familiar with any of them. I've not had any trouble with the kerambit Yangdu sent me.

I think there are some good points in the safety thread...
 
Hi Nasty,

I am not being nasty or trying to harm anyone. I am not complaining about the Kerambit either. If I do something stupid with a knife, I deserve what I get. I don't think however, that picking up a knife off a counter is stupid. A knife falling freely from a sheath should not happen and anyone with an ounce of common sense would agree (in a courtroom, this person with an ounce of common sense would be referred to as a "reasonable man".) I am trying to make the point that I think the Kerambit sheath is unsafe for users, could result in serious injury and cause problems for Yangdu that I doubt she needs.

Bill
 
I've never had a problem with a HI sheath. I definitely think that some of them could have been improved upon. However, I quickly assessed the strengths and weaknesses of each one, and used it accordingly.

I like to get custom sheaths for my knives. I would welcome the opportunity to buy sheathless knives at a discount. I think John will attest to that...
 
I agree Williboy's view point.

A good sheath shouldn't allow the knife following out freely. Some of HI knives are quite heavy/powerful that such an incident may create some major safety damages.

HI makes great knives, but it's a pitty that of the ones I own, about 1/3 of them are too loose, 1/6 of them too tight (which I don't mind), and only about 1/2 of them OK.

I would suggest HI to improve the sheath fitness. Yangdu is very understanding and will exchange the sheath for you. But, a better (and more economical) solution is to improve the QC directly in the factory.

Just my 2 cents,
Ted
 
IMHO, the kbit sheath that HI offers functions merely as something to store the blade in and nothing more. yes you could use it to carry the knife around but expect some lucky soul to find it on the floor when it falls out :D .... i would compare it with the cardboard sheath some manufacturers send out with new knives :) :thumbup:

just my 2cents
 
I am with Jimmy on this one

I like some of the sheaths that HI does...The K-bit sheath is for "show" and not "go" as it were

if it wasnt my kids would starve now wouldnt they?? :)
 
It's a good post and a valid point IMO. Still, I can see a sheath much tighter and better fitting, and then inverting the knife unintentionally and you're right back to square one with a heavy sharp thing thundering towards your big toe. There has to be some common sense involved.

At the same time a correctly fitted sheath should come with the kukris, but remember that while it may be fitted perfectly in Nepal, heat or cold can change how it fits 12,000 miles later.

I think the knives should be like almost all of the old Shop 1 and Birghorkha knives I've held, and stay in the sheath (except for perhaps a 1/2" drop) even when completely inverted. I have just missed hitting my toes more than once, and have cut the inside of the little finger on my right hand twice because I grasped a kukri at the juncture of scabbard throat and blade, and the blade slid out and cut my hand. The scabbards that came during the heyday of the habaki bolsters were the worst offenders in this regard IMO.

I don't think there is a lot you can do about a leather sheath, but I keep a supply of leather onhand and always tweak a new kukri scabbard with a strip or two of leather in the throat if need be to tighten things up for around the house.

For carrying around outside, I don't really feel that any standard traditional scabbard (from any company) is _ideal_ no matter how well it's fitted. Nothing against any of them, but a fitted leather or kydex quick draw sheath is a lot more practical out in the woods!

Norm
 
Svashtar said:
I don't think there is a lot you can do about a leather sheath, but I keep a supply of leather onhand and always tweak a new kurki scabbard with a strip or two of leather in the throat if need be to tighten things up for around the house.


Norm
Click to expand...

In all my kuk sheaths, save one, I have had to glue a piece of leather inside the throat and I feel that provides sufficient security. I get a snug fit. Lacking that leather strip though, the kuks could fall out if the sheath were inverted. With a kuk though, given its size, it's unlikely I would inadvertently invert it. With the Kbit, however, well, nevermind, I think, for the sake of my toes, a new sheath will be necessary.

A technique used by pistoleros when adjusting the screw on a kydex holster to fit the gun is to insert the gun, invert it and try to shake it out over a soft surface like a, dare I say it, waterbed. The ldeal tightness is reached when the gun won't fall out with a good shake but can still be drawn rapidly. Seems like a knife sheath should work about the same.
 
The scabbard fit on my 20" AK was a bit tight at first, but after about 6 months of use, keeping the blade oiled, it finally broke in to a perfect fit.

l can slide it in snugly and turn it upside down and it holds well, yet the blade frees easily when drawn.
 
imho if you pick up an edged tool by anything but the handle, excepting maybe in a vertial position, never inverted or even horizontal, even with a keeper, you made a terrible mistake in safety.

a knife has a handle. that is where you access its power. never, ever assume any sheath is safe. ever. this is like treating guns as loaded and off safety. never, ever assume. thank you.

that said, the basic HI knife sheaths could use a keeper for the most part, some of them have a snap-thing. many of them are constructed better than i could make a one off. however, it wouldn't kill the sheath guys to take it up a notch. i mean this in terms of quality. safety? shrug. they're not bad. i'd prefer pocket sheaths like on scandis - most of which i'll note don't have keepers, and if you mishandled one (pun), they will cut you. like a speeding razor. say hello stitches.

this should go into the safety thread.

do not carry by a sheath where possible. do not wrap your fingers around one either on draw. ever. same with scabbards.

scabbards and sheaths, if used to carry, should be held as near vertical as possible, and checked for safety periodically, and fixed or replaced as needed. i consider them wearable items too.

be safe.

bladite
 
I have had little complaint about my khuk sheaths. I have had a couple that fitted less than tightly, but were still servicable and were quite adequate for carry.

The small knife sheaths, however, are not up to the quality of the HI knives. I have replaced all of the small knife sheaths which I have purchased.

I agree that, if money could be saved by doing so, the small knives could be offered without a sheath.

Heck, Busse does it!

Andy
 
What Bladite said. Common sense is the key but common sense is the least common of all the senses. We humans often do things without thinking about the "what if" first.:(
 
I have a lot of HI items many different types , sometimes the sheath is fine sometimes I wonder if it got mixed up with another knife. One thing though is that I always treat mine with caution as I do my other brands when I handle them.

I had Dan make a sheath for one of my karambits ( and I have had a lot of them) and it was perfect. It is the only one I carry now and then and only in Dans sheath.

The Khukuri sheaths are a different story and not the same thing as the plain leather sheaths some of the odd pieces like tha karambits come in. I have seen a few other people make an attempt to get a good working sheath for them and some (on this forum) come very close but no one has got it right yet...it's a hard one to do but that may be a good thing.
 
I'm tired and getting ready to go to bed but first I want to make a comment.

I fixed my sheaths with leather strips. I changed khukuris sheaths. Some fit better in others so exchanging is good.

The country where these wonderful tools are made is not the USA. They are superb khukuris better than anything you will find in the USA.

The sheaths are not up to the standards in the USA. They are hand made with very little material availability. And basic tools.

Be happy with the tool.
 
Yvsa said:
What Bladite said. Common sense is the key but common sense is the least common of all the senses. We humans often do things without thinking about the "what if" first.:(
Click to expand...

You're right YVSA. In hindsight, I probably failed to excercise proper caution. I have been handling knives for many, many years. I just grabbed the knife and sheath off the counter without giving it a second thought. I have never had such an ill fitting sheath and never expected the knife to go airborne. Well, I'm leaving this topic now. I am glad I have all my toes and I hope my thoughts have helped someone. As I said at the outset, I meant no harm to anyone.
 
I've gone through more then 25 seperate HI blades, and not one of the sheaths was able to hold the blade when inverted. I just assumed that this was the general way of things, and that safety had to be in mind at all times when moving them.

scratch that. There was 2, the bilton and the AK bowie. but the ak bowie had a strap, and the blade did fall freely from the sheath being held up only by the strap, edge exposed by about an inch. the bilton was a pain to take out and put back in due to the tightness.

so really there was only one...

you think a karambit is frightening to have fall out, try a 30" 5lb ang khola. freaks me out every time it starts slipping as I move it and its held horizontal. Wich is why I dont hold it horizontal very often :D

Due to the sheaths construction, the only thing that I could personally see helping significantly is the handle strap, but that only works on those models that have a gaurd. if they are made tighter, there will be the likely hood that they will be difficult to withdraw and resheath (increasing the chance of tip breakthrough), wich may be worth it for the added security.

I'm also one of the guys who uses the sheaths 99% for strorage purposes, not for extended carry and transport, so the blade security is much less of an issue for me. I'm not sure what the reality the sheath makers at the shop are dealing with, or how difficult/easy it is for them to do tighter sheaths.
 
I think if you took some time and gave a bit of thought you could probably fix this with a shim and a dab of glue.
As far as Yangdu being potentually libel goes, the powers that be could just as well come back with the old "buyer beware line" and get it thrown out if court as a frivolous law suit stating that there is no guarantee or other stipulation place on the sheath only on the blade itself........
Just my .02
 
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