*** Suggestions for having a good Buying / Selling / Trading experience

Spark

Spark

HPIC - Hatas gonna Hate
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1. Make sure you spell out the terms of the deal before the purchase. Don't assume anything is covered - spell it out in detail.

2. When in doubt, pick up the phone. More problems can be solved in a 3 minute phone call than all the emails you'll send back and forth.

3. Be prompt in payment & shipping. DURRRR. Nobody likes a deadbeat or slacker. If you need additional time for whatever reason, be up front about it - but don't make the other guy chase after you.

4. Be explicit in your descriptions & detailed in your photos. A 1mm scuff that's "ho hum" to you is "OMGWTF!" to some collectors.

5. IF YOU WANT AN INSPECTION PERIOD OR RIGHT TO RETURN A PRODUCT, AGREE TO IT IN ADVANCE. CYA CYA CYA CYA CYA - it will save hard feelings all around.

6. Shipping & Insurance are good investments. That $1.25 you save in postage, packaging & packing material might cost you $700 if the knife never arrives or is damaged in transit.

7. SEARCH THE FORUMS BEFORE YOU BUY / SELL / TRADE. I cannot emphasize this enough. The Good Bad & Ugly is here for a reason - use it. The time you spend on this is less expensive getting burned on a bad deal.

8. Follow up when possible. Let the other guy know when you have gotten the knife or received payment. No one likes to be kept in the dark.

9. The deal isn't done until everyone agrees. If you've agreed on an inspection period, don't spend the money until it's over.

10. Last but not least -Ethics & Common sense are not optional. We are a thriving community because our membership has high standards for their fellows. If you do screw someone on a deal (buying or selling), being banned is nothing compared to having the postal inspectors come after you for Mail Fraud. People have a long memory about bad experiences.
 
Raymond1000 said:
Once I was looking to mail order something. The store in question wanted me to pay extra for shipping insurance.

I called the Washington State Attorney General’s office for advice. They told me, “When an offer to sell something is accepted, it becomes a contract. The definition of a contract is, ‘A payment made for goods or services received.’ If you pay them money and the goods are not received, the contract is not fulfilled and the seller is liable.”
Click to expand...


We have a tradition here that no deal is final until both parties are satisfied. Not everyone understands or subscribes to it, but everyone understands a contract.

If you send someone money for a purchase or you send them goods as a trade, they owe you the goods you agreed to in return. Period.


This has nothing to do with insurance, delivery confirmation, or signature required -- those are just postal services to reassure the sender that his interests will be protected.

Whether or not he chooses to use them, he still owes you the goods you paid or traded for. If he doesn't get his half of the deal to you, he owes you a full refund.

It doesn't matter if the goods were lost in transit, stolen from your doorstep, or fell out of a poorly packed container. Until you get yours, he owes you. Even if the loss is not his fault.

That's why he owes it to himself to buy insurance, delivery confirmation, and signature required. Considering the high dollar value of many Busse transactions, Express Mail or Registered Mail would be an even better idea. But that's not the buyer's decision to make, since secure delivery is the seller's responsibility in every case.


Except one, of course. We recently even had a member overseas who said putting insurance on a package going to his country is the same as putting a "steal me" sign on it. If for whatever reason the buyer insists on the cheapest, least securely packaged, no extra services mailing method, then you can tell him it's his problem if nothing arrives.
 
I just have a question, sir. If both traders agree to ship via USPS Priority Mail w/ DC and something gets lost who's fault is it? I truly believe that since both traders agreed on that (priority w/ DC) they are both taking a risk. Once you drop the package off at UPS/FedEx/PO whatever it is out of you hands. Thank you
 
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Esav Benyamin said:
If you send someone money for a purchase or you send them goods as a trade, they owe you the goods you agreed to in return. Period.

This has nothing to do with insurance, delivery confirmation, or signature required -- those are just postal services to reassure the sender that his interests will be protected.

Whether or not he chooses to use them, he still owes you the goods you paid or traded for. If he doesn't get his half of the deal to you, he owes you a full refund.

It doesn't matter if the goods were lost in transit, stolen from your doorstep, or fell out of a poorly packed container. Until you get yours, he owes you. Even if the loss is not his fault.

That's why he owes it to himself to buy insurance, delivery confirmation, and signature required.
Click to expand...

Yes, if two people agree to certain specific terms -- including an explicit written agreement not to hold the other responsible for loss in transit -- that takes precedence over generally accepted good procedure.
 
Thanks for posting this Esav.
It will greatly guide some sellers who insist that their responsibility ends as soon as the package leaves their hands.

A few months back, I purchased a Sage 2 on BF & the knife "disappeared" from the system after reaching my mailing hub. The seller implicately insinuated that the disappearance was somehow my fault.

After wasting hours speaking with supervisors at the post office, I decided I gave more than my fair share of the effort for recovering the package.
In the end, I was offered no resolution from the buyer.:mad:

I HAD to recover my $100 via a paypal claim.
I did however decide to send him back $50 for 50/50 loss on the transaction. I sometimes wonder if the lesson would have been clearer to him if he just absorbed 100% of the loss.

Regardless, I hope your post makes it clear to all shippers (in trades & sales) that the burden does fall on their shoulders :thumbup:
-Scooby
 
Please see the announcement above!
 
It's good that this is posted, I too was wondering why so many sellers encourage the buyer to purchase insurance when insurance covers the seller, not the buyer. I've sold many items on different exchanges and if the item's value was over $200, I always paid for insurance. I may charge the buyer in the shipping fee but often I don't. But it's up to potential buyers to read these stickys or be taken advantaged of.
 
JackHammer said:
It's good that this is posted, I too was wondering why so many sellers encourage the buyer to purchase insurance when insurance covers the seller, not the buyer. I've sold many items on different exchanges and if the item's value was over $200, I always paid for insurance. I may charge the buyer in the shipping fee but often I don't. But it's up to potential buyers to read these stickys or be taken advantaged of.
Click to expand...

if a seller is doing that, they're probably implying that they're not responsible for the item once shipped, unless it's insured. not that I agree with that, though.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
We have a tradition here that no deal is final until both parties are satisfied. Not everyone understands or subscribes to it, but everyone understands a contract.

If you send someone money for a purchase or you send them goods as a trade, they owe you the goods you agreed to in return. Period.


This has nothing to do with insurance, delivery confirmation, or signature required -- those are just postal services to reassure the sender that his interests will be protected.

Whether or not he chooses to use them, he still owes you the goods you paid or traded for. If he doesn't get his half of the deal to you, he owes you a full refund.

It doesn't matter if the goods were lost in transit, stolen from your doorstep, or fell out of a poorly packed container. Until you get yours, he owes you. Even if the loss is not his fault.

That's why he owes it to himself to buy insurance, delivery confirmation, and signature required. Considering the high dollar value of many Busse transactions, Express Mail or Registered Mail would be an even better idea. But that's not the buyer's decision to make, since secure delivery is the seller's responsibility in every case.


Except one, of course. We recently even had a member overseas who said putting insurance on a package going to his country is the same as putting a "steal me" sign on it. If for whatever reason the buyer insists on the cheapest, least securely packaged, no extra services mailing method, then you can tell him it's his problem if nothing arrives.
Click to expand...

Esav sir, you are a Wordsmith!!!:thumbup:
 
Good point to bring up. I think a simple way to to address the problem is to have insurance on the deal. It is kind of hard to blame a private seller that does there best to ship an item and the delivery service drops the ball. If the item lost is a fair dollar amount, especially in this economy, it could be hard to absorb such loss. So, to end with for the extra little bit of cash and the peace of mind that it will bring, insurance to me would not be optional.
 
What's a guide line for the timing of a refund to the buyer?

USPS insurance says you can't file a claim until 21 days after shipment.

Suppose you ship an item priority mail but a week after shipping it has not arrived but has shown some movement in the system however the buyer is going on vacation for two weeks and wants his refund now even though the package is not horribly overdue. What is the right thing to do?

Basically I'm asking at what point does the seller owe a refund to the buyer?

Thanks,

Rick
 
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I would not refund anyones money until the package is actually lost. A risk even the buyer has to take. You may refund his money and then the package shows up in 3 days. Then, who is to say you will be payed back?
 
I'd like to add something if I may.
When your are first contacted about a sale or are contacting a buyer via PM, don't use the "Quick Reply" box when responding via PM. "Quick Reply" is the big box under the message and does not quote the entire back and forth exchange. Use the "Reply To Private Message" which is seen on the right below the message.

Should a purchase or sale require a insurance claim need to be filed, all correspondence between parties is in one message to print.

Quick Reply should really be removed as a message option, if possible.
 
applying a broader definition of "no deal is final until both parties are satisfied", i feel reasonable timeframe for refund, and similar things should be worked out between both parties - an agreement where both feel "reasonable time" is a reasonable time. i guess the definition of a deal as per bf is the best, since the subtle meaning is to "work things out to satisfaction of both".

for eg., i recently did a deal for two knives, and offered to pay for insurance and/or tracking, but the seller could not get it at his post office - the usps person told him you don't get insurance for so-and-so place, nor tracking. i know this is not true, since i routinely receive usps packages which are insured and tracked. we have now decided to wait for a reasonable time of a month for the package to show up, after which both of us will decide what should be done.
 
I just had an experience with USPS that made me sit up take notice of this whole thing. My seller was great throughout the whole experience and everything worked out, but if it hadn't someone would have gotten screwed. This seller included shipping, but in the future if a seller tries to "sell" me insurance like some others do, I will be sure to link them this thread and let them know that insurance is for their purposes, not mine. If the package is lost and they didn't buy insurance they have to refund to the buyer.

I saw another thread complaining about sellers pricing items like this: $X+$X shipping + X% paypal fees + $X optional insurance. JUST INCLUDE IT ALL IN THE BOTTOM LINE!

I think this information will be very helpful in resolving disputes that arise from problems with USPS or other carriers.
 
I think insurance should be mandatory in any transaction it cover's both parties involved..... not to mention usps,ups,ect,ect dont like paying for lost items.....
 
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