"Super" Commander

Hmmm... thanks for the post colinz

This got me worried, i feel that a larger knife then the commander needs thicker liners to stay stable under stress. (physical stress, not psychical stress...;) )

The liners on my 98/99's are about .062 (about 1.57 mm) and the liners on my SOCFK are about .050 (about 1.15 mm)
I feel that as the knife is larger the thickness should be thicker to aviod liner flex, which to me feels crappy and compromises the liner locks reliability.

I've used my commander trainer on tyre stacks, and i feel that if you don't get a good hit then it flexes too much to make me feel good.
Also done some live cutting on my cutting dummy with my 98/99's and they don't seem to flex as my trainers do.

I'm not a knifefighter and have no experience in cutting humans besides myself :eek:, but theoretically i want stiff, non-flexing knives.
I'm thinking about blades getting stuck (in clothes, flesh) etc. wouldn't want a lock to fail then.

Mr. Rearic: i bet you've got lots of more experience on this issue, please help!
Or of course anyone else :)
 
Thanx for the input...

Good thinking on the tiredummy, i realize that flesh cuts easier then rubber :)
But the human body also has it's hard stuff, and there might be clothes and other stuff [that are covering the actual flesh].

But, might it be that it [liner thickness] has no practical means? but it is much more stable with thicker liners and thus gives a more solid feeling and that creates confidence in the knife??
I don't really like guns that feels squishy or rattles either, confidence my friends, confidence in ones gear is important :)

Btw, i find is amusing that the small difference in liner/scales makes such a difference in how the knives feel!

I'll make sure to look out for that Michelin man though.. :eek:
;)

More ideas/input/feedback?
 
Anything better then ideas/opinions/feedback is of course cold hard solid facts!

Thanks Patrick :)
 
as disseminated from EKI to us, the 062 liners would have doubled the cost for that element involved in producing the new S-Comm.

"...050 is the industry standard and will effectively perform in the new Super Commander...".

the S-Comm produced with the 062 liners would have been priced out of range for most people.

hope that bit of info helps.

-pm
 
The 2000 Commander liners mike out as .050 stock.

I'll admit that I'd have been happier with .062 myself, but Ernie didn't consult me (major bummer) and it's really not a big enough deal to keep me from looking forward to the arrival of my chrome/OD Super Commander!
:D
 
I personally don't feel it's that big of an issue.

The difference we're talking about is .012 or twelve thousandths of an inch. (Beer cans measure out at .006)

Double that for two scales and you get a whopping .024 more thickness.

With .200 (or 200 thousandths) of an inch of G10, would you care to guess where most of your lateral stability is coming from?

I honestly believe we were all a little "spoiled" by the thickness of the 98 style liners. They were over engineered and thicker than they needed to be. If the Commander had originally come with a .050 liner and was today offered with a .062 liner at additional cost most of us wouldn't bother to spend the extra money for strength that is not needed.

As to feeling flex when working a Tire Man, well DAMN! Consider the medium you're striking. Tires are INCREDIBLY tough and resilient material to strike with a knife. You're putting far more stress on the knife than you ever will in an actual fight. (Unless you are attacked by the Michelin Man! :D ) Go out and buy a boneless ham sometime, do a few test cuts in that and see how the knife feels in your hand.
 
Colinz, Jonas,

I had a long post written here but am doing some serious re-thinking of the matter.

Got some more thinking to do before I post further on the subject.
:(
 
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See2

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Any of you '98 owners know if the .050 thickness of the Super Commander's liners is the same (or better!) than that of the '98 versions? Break out your micrometers, boys. :D
 
Just a bit curious...

Are the Super Commanders going to have the same linerthickness as the 2000 models (and later)? I´m in europe (mm not inches you know) and I have no good instrument to measure the liners on my knife.

If these Super Commanders are made with the same thickness then I have to wonder how "flimsy" it will feel.

My Commander (2000) has thin liners and that small but annoying flex when you take a good grip around the handle. I don´t want to see a Super Commander with even more flex due to the longer handle.

So please if someone out there has a 2000 Commander or later please tell me how thin it is compared to the .050 mentioned.

Thanks,
Colinz
 
I don´t agree with you Ken Cook.

I would pay more for thicker liners and scales because I can feel my 2000 Commander wobble when I slashcut my old couch with it. No lockfailure but it feels like the whole knife flexes. Very annoying. My Gunting doesn´t flex at all. It just changes its cuttingpath, even when I try to push it sideways.

I am afraid that the same thing will happen if I cut someone with a lot of clothes (it gets cold here during winter). Sure it might cut a little but if the person spinns or I make a misstake, the blade won´t cut properly because the knife wobbles instead of changing its path when cutting.

I hope you understand what I mean. I tried to explain the problem as good as I could. I´m no knifewielding master of any kind. These are just my impressions.

How much money are we talking about here 10 to 15 bucks per knife at the most for taking care of the liners...

It´s also very disturbing to feel a knife flex when you take a firm grip. Maybe I should use my money for the "Super Commander" and buy a highserial number ´98 Commander?

Too bad, I really would like a waved folder with a four inch blade.

/Colinz
 
Jonas:

Just a minor point which certainly has built up my confidence in my Commander (and other built for duty equipment).

Unfortunately I get plenty of opportunity to view incidents of man's inhumanity to their fellow man. I often get to see the effects of blade (and sharp object) attacks and the grizzly results.

I've read many articles regarding tech information during "knife fighting" ie. clothing, blade strength and thickness, blade shape & integrity etc...as I am sure you have also.

I would have to say that the majority of sharp object inflicted injuries that 'I' have seen have been made by kitchen type knives with a thinner flexible blade or a sharp tool object like a screwdriver (used in a slashibg rather than stabbing motion). I realize that these would be considered more of a "fixed" type blade, but by no means would you consider them to be "tools for the purpose". Personally, I would have expected these lesser manufactured blades to break or snap on impact, but you wouldn't believe the damage these knives have done. A recent Brother-on-Brother confrontation, using a 3.5" kitchen steak knife, produced devastating two arm bicep lacerations slicing tendons and mucle right down to the bone (humerous). The victim was wearing a leather jacket (summer weight), a sweatshirt and t-shirt. Obviously, their are many other impact factors to consider, but the end result was a small knife into clothing and flesh.

Based on this one incident alone, if I would have to use my knife for defensive purposes (and hopefully I will never have to), I am almost positive that the knife would retain its integrity barring any liner-lock failure. Hope this ads to the confidence in your equipment.
 
Just to advise, I have a 2000 Commander. I transition between it and the P-SARK. They are both used (when carried) on a regular basis and I have yet to experience any major problems.
 
Originally posted by pm
"...050 is the industry standard and...".
Click to expand...
Patrick, if you don't mind, what standard is that?
Does that mean .50 thick liners are the most commonly used in modern, high-end folding knives?

Out of curiosity, just compared liners (visually) on Beretta airlight folder, Kershaw BOA, REKAT SIFU, BM 710, MT SOCOM, Strider folder obviously needed no check, but anyways.
All of them have liners thicker than .50. The closest would be BOA, but that has hardened steel liners vs. titanium, plus aluminum handles, obviously adding to overall handle strength, correct?
 
Hey Gator97,

that was a quote verbatim from Derek at EKI.

Why don't you give him a call @ EKI and ask him what he told Patrick.

-Josh
 
Originally posted by JDL
Why don't you give him a call @ EKI and ask him what he told Patrick.
Click to expand...
Thanks Josh :)
I'll try to do that. Since it was a quote I alreay know what was told. I guess I should ask the same question then.
 
Hi!

Woke up to this discussion, very interesting!

Thanks for sharing your experience Raye, much appreciated.
I've seen photos of injuries and what kinds of knives that has been used, and the power of the blade is truly devastating.

But, at the same time, this is from a cut that was a "sucsess", how many times do you see/hear about similar things that has happend where the knife has failed? (broken, bent, snapped)

I read not very much about these things (crime scene investigations), but i've read/seen pic's several times that broken kitchen knives has been found at crime scenes.

The point i'm trying to make is that altough i could probably cut as well with a fillet knife, the risk of that one not lasting very long makes it to me a no-go, that's why i want [maybe] overengineered liners and a stiff, non-flexing knife.
To reduce to slightest possibility of it breaking/failing/or otherwise perform unexpected.

I've used my P-SARK/SOCFK a lot too, i feel very comfortable with'em , it's a solid performer. (as all my EKI knives seem to be)
I feel that a situation where i need to defend myself is so x-treme i want gear that i trust at least 99.99% so again, maybe it's just a confidence thing without any real practical value?

Reason i keep nagging about this now is that as the larger commander is, well, larger i think we'll have more leverage and thus more flex, and if you haven't noticed, i don't like flex :)

Again, this might be a non-issue, but i feel that it's important to have confidence in one's gear, otherwise i won't carry them.

I might be beating a dead horse here, the thickness will not change, but i'm still interested in hearing your opinions/thoughts on this issue.
Bring it on :)

And Ken, can't wait to see what you thought up :)
 
Here's my own thoughts on the subject. I've used knives for as long as I can remember, right from very cheap folders up to high end customs.

In my opinion a small amount of flex is necessary to asorb impact, especially if you do hit a hard object with it (whether it be a car door frame or someones rib). All objects will flex to some degree and this is necessary. If you overbuild it, then where is all that stress going ? Probably into the lock itself, then you have the possibility of a lock jamming up on you (not a major problem in itself) or it may even fail altogether (big problem !).

Ever seen slow motion video of a Glock during it's firing cycle ? The dust cover of the frame flexes visibly to the point you think it's melting. Yet have you ever seen this causing a problem or make people think, Hmm, better not buy a Glock, they flex !

Obviously, flexing too much is a bad thing, but a small amount of flex I don't see as a problem.

Just my own opinion !
 
Yeah, the "industry standard" remark raised my eyebrows as well.

The thinner liners work on a CQC-7 or SOCFK because the body is more narrow...on later 99 and 00 and 01 Commanders, it works well enough but, it would be nicer to go back to the "98 Formula" as everyone well knows. Once you have something, and then it changes...you long for a return.

Considering the size of the proposed "Super Commander," I would assume that the "Super" comment is not referring to the size per se, as it is not that much larger. So, the "Super" Commander should be a Super Commander.

The regular Commander's MSRP is right at $220.00, let's round it off.

So, here we have a knife that is...well over $100.00 more and even if I [personally] take into consideration the shoulder rig, etc., I have to come to the conclusion that the acceptable "flex" in a regular Commander will be increased in an even wider body...for the money. I have to pass.

If the price were slightly above that of a regular Commander since it is going to be constructed like one, and then the price was adjusted for the inclusion of the shoulder rig. I would probably get one and try it out. As it is, I cannot justify it for 1/4 inch more blade length and a larger body. That's just me.
 
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