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- Jun 16, 2003
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They retain desired properties when they get hot from high speed use - a property useless in knives used in the hand.
High cost, low toughness, difficult to finish and sharpen, and low availability are some reasons. They are not for the average knife user.
Hoss
Nope you are correct. W2 and 52100 have half the edge retention of 440C, so Z-Wear is probably at least twice as good.
Sure, 440C will be more wear resistant than 52100 if hardness geometry and sharpening are the same and we are talking slice cutting.In my experience 52100 and W2 hold an edge better than 440c. I know 440c has more Cr carbide which would contribute greater wear resistance but I believe finer grain structure, higher toughness/hardness of W2/52100 can lead to better edge retention overall?
I really enjoyed this one, as these are steels I am quite interested in, and have a few to play with.
Chuck is sending me some z-max to try. I think it’s very similar to Maxamet, so I’ll send some samples in for testing.
I have a question on wear resistance. I see double the edge retention from W2 or 52100 compared to z-wear, at typical hardness levels. Maxamet to 440c seems a bit under represented in terms of improvement at 2.2. (Iirc.) Am I talking about something different?
And if I do that you will say that it is not valid and you will find million reason for that .......? Why not other way ? Show me the proof that I m wrong ?Show us your testing and your results.
Hoss
That is good idea but no . I don t see any reason to put him on ignoreThank Spark for "Ignore."
May I add ......................It is difficult to heat treat them in , you know whatHigh cost, low toughness, difficult to finish and sharpen, and low availability are some reasons. They are not for the average knife user.
Hoss
Maybe.........but probably I spend more time outdoor then he spend in his shop making knives.....Sorry, Natlek but Hoss has probably forgotten more about knife making than you will ever know.
Did you read my post ? That Catra test data is almost of no use to us .They test edge geometry not steel .What I say is that with same geometry 440C vs HSS , when 440c will lose it s WORKNIG sharpness will get real dull very fast .With HSS that will not happen , HSS will stay in that working sharpness for loooong time .........Sorry, Natlek but Hoss has probably forgotten more about knife making than you will ever know.
Is this what Catra do ? They test different knives with different hardness , different geometry ? What use we have from data like that ? So IF 440C ..............and IF 52000 ......winner is WHO ?Sure, 440C will be more wear resistant than 52100 if hardness geometry and sharpening are the same and we are talking slice cutting.
52100 will out cut 440c at higher hardness, more acute sharpening, and with push cutting.
Hoss
Please stop making stuff up.Did you read my post ? That Catra test data is almost of no use to us .They test edge geometry not steel .What I say is that with same geometry 440C vs HSS , when 440c will lose it s WORKNIG sharpness will get real dull very fast .With HSS that will not happen , HSS will stay in that working sharpness for loooong time .........
Are we are on same page or it is my English again ?Please stop making stuff up.
The tester uses a fixed load, test speed, and stroke length. A typical test for a plain edge steel knife is 60 cuts with 50N load at 50 mm/s, which takes about 15 minutes [1]. The test is often used to compare different steels to determine the edge retention potential of each. However, the CATRA tester is not necessarily a device that compares steels; it compares knives. What I mean by that is that the edge angle, how the blade was sharpened, etc. all affect the measurement. Only if all of those variables are kept the same can steels be compared. Even then there is the possibility that with a different set of variables two steels may behave differently. In other words, a knife with a very thin finely polished edge may show Steel A is better than Steel B, but that may be reversed with a thick edge that has a coarse finish. We won’t know for sure until we do the test.
Do you ever used knife from HSS steel and which one is that ? I have maybe more then 50 of them right now and around 30 give to friends ..most of them are hunters .Some are from M series some from T series HSS steel...so I making stuff ?Please stop making stuff up.
I'm eagerly awaiting the side-by-side comparison the hunters made between 440C and high speed steel with controlled variables.Do you ever used knife from HSS steel and which one is that ? I have maybe more then 50 of them right now and around 30 give to friends ..most of them are hunters .Some are from M series some from T series HSS steel...so I making stuff ?
Controlled varibales........ that is what your father will say to me if I show how I do my test .............game which will proof nothing !I'm eagerly awaiting the side-by-side comparison the hunters made between 440C and high speed steel with controlled variables.