Super steel comparison? (K294, Rex121, 10V, etc)

To add to the knowledge here (what little I have)...

I have a Farid folder in REX121. It holds an edge for longer than I care to test it, but I can't get it particularly sharp. I can slice phone book paper and shave arm hairs...but I can't really say I can even get close to tree topping or hair whittling sharpness.

I haven't tested how thin I can go before I have edge instability, but I have already worn down a diamond plate and a couple of lesser stones...Maybe at a later date I'll retry. I have a review on the forums somewhere if anyone is looking for more specifics.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1040242-Farid-K2-in-REX-121?highlight=rex121
 
I can tell you I have a special design PHIL WILSON in 10 v ,very thin edge, it doesn't edge chip cutting up muddy elk on the ground and the edge holding is super natural. Also it touches up better than anything I have seen .When you lay the diamond to it it doesn't gum up even dry.
I can do one bull skinned boned and bagged and lay it on the diamond for 8 or 10 strokes aside and turn around and do another,that simple .My previos fave was my treasured spyder mili in 90v.
the 10v easily triples that edge retention .
 
I searched a lot on the internet in general and this forum in particular data on a steel which, at least on paper, is superior to the popular M390 or S90V (I work with now), I mean the S390 stee from bohler.
C-1,64
Cr-4,8
Mo-2
V-4,8
W-10,4
Co-8

I think this steel has exceptional resistance to cutting edge properties have some doubts though resistance to chipping or breaking.
I wonder if anyone has worked with this steel or if anyone had the chance to use compared to other steels higher.
thanks
PS
anyway, I've already ordered the steel, I hope to live up to expectations and fears to be unfounded ... the steel is a powder 3rd generation, I can not believe it will be very brittle
 
elkpro1 said:
I can tell you I have a special design PHIL WILSON in 10 v ,very thin edge, it doesn't edge chip cutting up muddy elk on the ground and the edge holding is super natural. Also it touches up better than anything I have seen .When you lay the diamond to it it doesn't gum up even dry.
I can do one bull skinned boned and bagged and lay it on the diamond for 8 or 10 strokes aside and turn around and do another,that simple .My previos fave was my treasured spyder mili in 90v.
the 10v easily triples that edge retention .
Click to expand...
Another myth slain.

If a steel holds it's edge for a long time, that doesn't mean that it takes a long time to sharpen, if it's optimized for the task. It might have taken a long time to grind the knife :D....
 
sodak said:
Another myth slain.

If a steel holds it's edge for a long time, that doesn't mean that it takes a long time to sharpen, if it's optimized for the task. It might have taken a long time to grind the knife :D....
Click to expand...

You can only hope that the maker doesn't value his time much! :D
 
So nobody has any opinion (Not to say experience) with S390?
The next step was searched a lot of information and opinions about this steel. A manufacturer of knives from Russia sells blanks in S390 ... but says nothing about the steel ... more, do not understand Russian, and any attempt would be doomed to failure from the start.
But apparently are here are no opportunities for dialogue about this steel, unfortunately.
 
duras said:
So nobody has any opinion (Not to say experience) with S390?
The next step was searched a lot of information and opinions about this steel. A manufacturer of knives from Russia sells blanks in S390 ... but says nothing about the steel ... more, do not understand Russian, and any attempt would be doomed to failure from the start.
But apparently are here are no opportunities for dialogue about this steel, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I worked with S390 - Bohler, I made blades about 15 kg steel 3.5 and 4.3 mm thick.
Hardness of 67-68 HRC, difficult to work with him, but equally difficult as the K390 or S90V.
The final result on the ground, below expectations and below the K390 but over M390 at the cutting edge strength. I kept a hunting knife from S390 but otherwise all my knives are of K390 which achieve maximum performance from what I've worked so far.
His problem, in my opinion, too little carbon for all carbides which must be transformed.
It has a very good edge, aggressive, but after a boar edge seems to slip and cut not enough. If it looks sharp edge but check is not as aggressive as the room ... and it matters a lot in the field.
More difficulty in hardening (higher temperature) and equal cost K390 and M390 steel made to no longer choose the following orders from Bohler.
 
duras said:
I worked with S390 - Bohler, I made blades about 15 kg steel 3.5 and 4.3 mm thick.
Hardness of 67-68 HRC, difficult to work with him, but equally difficult as the K390 or S90V.
The final result on the ground, below expectations and below the K390 but over M390 at the cutting edge strength. I kept a hunting knife from S390 but otherwise all my knives are of K390 which achieve maximum performance from what I've worked so far.
His problem, in my opinion, too little carbon for all carbides which must be transformed.
It has a very good edge, aggressive, but after a boar edge seems to slip and cut not enough. If it looks sharp edge but check is not as aggressive as the room ... and it matters a lot in the field.
More difficulty in hardening (higher temperature) and equal cost K390 and M390 steel made to no longer choose the following orders from Bohler.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this review of S390.
Your finished blades were 67-68 Rc? That is very high! Doesn't the high cobalt reduce toughness dramatically at such hardness? Without the cobalt, I would expect it to perform like CPM-M4 but less wear-resistant than K390 anyway.
 
Work is normal hardness of the steel after returning (in the parameters recommended by the producer) hardness must be between 65 and 69 HRC depending on the modality temeperatura hardening and cooling. Tensile strength and chipping is still quite high, I could not break any blade, even though I made and used blades 3 mm thick and 14 cm long with the edge of flat, but it's true they have not been used instead ax or chisel concrete.
http://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/files/S390DE.pdf pag 7
 
duras said:
Work is normal hardness of the steel after returning (in the parameters recommended by the producer) hardness must be between 65 and 69 HRC depending on the modality temeperatura hardening and cooling. Tensile strength and chipping is still quite high, I could not break any blade, even though I made and used blades 3 mm thick and 14 cm long with the edge of flat, but it's true they have not been used instead ax or chisel concrete.
http://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/files/S390DE.pdf pag 7
Click to expand...

yes, parameters are for manufacturing products of steel, etc. at high-heat, i.e. cutting/milling other steels to be used as dies/stamps :eek: high precision work requiring maximum compressive strength. For such use, large edge-angles are used for shallow cuts and very precise application of very high forces... I guess the geometry of the knife edge was to thin for the edge-finish (coarse grit?) and application? Micro-chipping at the apex. I wonder if a high-grit finish carefully applied (as with ceramic blades) and to a thicker apex angle (e.g. micro-bevel <0.005 wide but ~45 degrees inclusive) would provide better performance...
 
Older thread but I'll give it a bump since I saw so many posts about Phil Wilson's knives. I have two of Phil's customs in m4 (64). They out cut any knife in my collection by a wide margin. I use them both at the fish cleaning table and I can easily do twice the work that I do with my s30v blades. One is ground a bit thicker for heavier work but even the thinner one has suffered zero edge damage doing hard work cutting through skin, scales and large fish bones. I would classify m4 with many of the modern "super steels".

fwiw, I also have one of Phil's fillet knives in cpm154. It may not hold its working edge quite as long as the m4 but it is an amazing steel in its own right. Most perfect balance between edge retention, toughness and ease of sharpening that I have experienced in a stainless steel. I think Phil manages to really squeeze the best out of this steel with his ht. If I were ordering a new Southfork tomorrow I would probably choose cpm154 over any other stainless steel.
 
The best I can think of is to check out Ankerson's thread:

CPM 20CV - 960 - Michael Raymond Starlit - 62 RC - .007" - .008" behind the edge

So 10V was up around 2,000 - 2,400 cuts while CPM 20CV (basically the same as M390, I think) is 960. Relatively speaking, 960 is still in the upper echelon of the knives he tested, but not too close to 10V.
 
sodak said:
The best I can think of is to check out Ankerson's thread:

CPM 20CV - 960 - Michael Raymond Starlit - 62 RC - .007" - .008" behind the edge

So 10V was up around 2,000 - 2,400 cuts while CPM 20CV (basically the same as M390, I think) is 960. Relatively speaking, 960 is still in the upper echelon of the knives he tested, but not too close to 10V.
Click to expand...
This is a custom knife with a really good heat treatment and 007" - .008" behind the edge. Mere earthlings can't afford a Michael Raymond.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Have to ask since my wallet can't test em all.
How does m390 to compare 10v?
Click to expand...
Well me from the past :D
They aren't really a direct comparison with each other. The 10v will have greater edge performance and edge toughness and a higher working hardness as well as more wear resistance to the edge due to the higher vanadium, higher carbon and lower chromium. This means more MC Type Primary Carbides made with the Vanadium which max out at 81-83rc. These are the hardest carbides

The m390 has a lower working hardness and is a little more user friendly thanks to being stainless. Also, the burr will come off easier. It's not as wear resistant, much less vanadium and operates more on chromium carbides then the harder Vanadium carbides.

CPM 10v is much better. And in the future my old friend you have found a way to get it to 67hrc by working with Brad at Peters Heat treatment. :D So 10v is just better for what you like Shawn :D:D:D
 
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