Super steels anyone?

[KennyB]

I was more referring to EDC usage, for specific jobs/tasks it may be more beneficial to get a certain blade steel to match the job like you mentioned how H1 is rust proof to my knowledge, INFI is known for toughness, S110V is known for wear resistance.

For normal EDC carry though I think learning how to sharpen is a wiser choice as it opens a lot more doors to what you can carry as you no longer worry about having a blade be sharp all day long just in case you have to use it heavily. It allows something like a SAK to be a lot more serviceable to me as I find them extremely easy to dull but you can sharpen them up in no time.

When it comes to EDC though I don't really ever let a knife go dull enough to really see the benefit of high wear resistance. I typically touch up every other day or so just to keep that hair-poppingness I like on my EDC edge. Because of that I generally don't see a difference between say 1095 at 57 HRC and ELMAX at 62 HRC until it comes to cutting something very abrasive--soft 1095 will go blunt and become a "wedge" a lot quicker but between my knives in those steels I hardly ever let the wear resistance be the determining factor for which one I'll carry that day.

I do like steels like S30V and ELMAX though because they are kind of "versatile" steels that score high in performance in all categories. Toughness, wear resistance and corriosion resistance. But I don't think it makes them "super" as if one is somehow ever going to be superior to all others. I think people just started saying "super steel" because it was so catchy, I forget the word for it but you know when you make a term for something with both words starting with the same letter--our brains like that stuff for some reason.

As with all things though, the biggest reason one shouldn't think of them as "super" is because technology is always improving and it won't be long until they are obsolete. You know, people scoff at 1095, but that's actually some pretty darn good modern steel if you compare it to a lot of older technology. That's just the way it goes, today's "super steel" is going to be tomorrow's dirt cheap standard.

 

[Flaminghog2099]

Is it worth getting a spyderco dragonfly 2 in zdp 189 for 69 bucks?

 

[shunsui]

I'd splurge a little and get the ZDP189 Endura.

 

[PayneTrain]

They're the newest steels that knife-nuts use to justify purchasing "just one more knife" and then a week later, are on the hunt for another even more super steel knife.

I think this is the best definition I've found.

Today, I'm hunting Sleipner!

 

[Rennd]

PayneTrain said:
[quote name="Invective" post=13321359]They're the newest steels that knife-nuts use to justify purchasing "just one more knife" and then a week later, are on the hunt for another even more super steel knife.

I think this is the best definition I've found.



Today, I'm hunting Sleipner![/quote]

Ehh, I didn't really like sliepner. Like d2, it refuses to get very sharp.

 

[Ankerson]

It's a sales gimmick because "super steel" doesn't mean anything definitive and it changes over time. "Super steel" is a relative term because you have to have a point of comparison. It's overused in marketing and poorly defined. The term itself is a sales generating buzzword.

The steels themselves, however, may offer excellent performance for specific tasks with their particular combination of attributes. There is no perfect steel for everything. So calling S110V or any other steel a super steel doesn't make sense when it's not ideal for every task. It might be a "super rope cutting" steel or a "super corrosion resistant" steel or "super high impact resistant" steel, but we need to be more specific instead of simply throwing labels around. If you aren't being specific then the term is vague and nothing more than a buzzword to drive sales.

I don't think people are being that vague really....

Using S110V as an example, it's rare due to cost and difficulty of producing the steel itself.

Then someone has to work with it producing knives with the increased equipment wear and tear.

Nobody has ever said it would be a great steel to make choppers out of as far as I know..

But for knives that are ment to cut things, hunting knives, skinning knives, cutting abrasive materials etc the increased wear resistance and edge retention over all steels from S90V down is achieved by the increased alloy content and higher RC hardness range.

For a blade that is ment to cut things that is stainless it might be the best steel that is available for that purpose.

It's in the same general class as CPM 10V(A11), K390, S125V and CPM 15V.

But even Crucible stated that CPM 10V and CPM S110V are better suited for knife blades than steels like REX 121 and that REX 121 would have about the same performance as CPM 10V even with the increased alloy content.

So no, there really isn't one all around best steel for everything, but we can narrow it down to different uses and then things get a little clearer.

 

[ToxicBot11]

The definition of Super Steel is Maxamet..

 

[Comeuppance]

I'm pretty sure "super steel" is not an actual industry term, and really is just a term arbitrarily used in conversation and hype. I've seen 154CM called a "super steel", and you can't really argue with it because it's not something objectively defined. Perhaps the person thought 154CM was a super steel because it represented the ideal balance of characteristics for that specific individual.

My personal classification for super steels involves high wear and impact resistance. So, primarily, particle metallurgy steels like Z-wear, CPM-110V, M390, 3V, and many others. However, some people will value different aspects more than others, so there is no definitive or practical single answer to the question other than "you decide."

 

[Ankerson]

The definition of Super Steel is Maxamet..

I doubt it...... And it will suffer the same issues that REX 121 does....

The alloy content is too high for knife blades.... Unless it's a thick grind with thick edge geometry. Thin them out and it just won't hold up.....

I tried to tell some people that before and they didn't listen, but in the end they found what I said to be true for REX 121 and will find the same for Maxamet.

Now for what the steel was designed for it's good....

Possible applications for this alloy could include:
Hobs
Punches
Form tools
Taps
End mills
Milling cutters
Thread roll dies
Indexable inserts
Broaches

 

[Wanimator]

Aus-8 used to be considered a supersteel. It's basically the "top end" stuff.

 

[Ankerson]

Aus-8 used to be considered a supersteel. It's basically the "top end" stuff.

It's all progression as different steels have been adapted for knife use.

440C was one also, then 154CM/ATS-34 was another one.

 

[Rapt_up]

When it comes to EDC though I don't really ever let a knife go dull enough to really see the benefit of high wear resistance. I typically touch up every other day or so just to keep that hair-poppingness I like on my EDC edge. Because of that I generally don't see a difference between say 1095 at 57 HRC and ELMAX at 62 HRC until it comes to cutting something very abrasive--soft 1095 will go blunt and become a "wedge" a lot quicker but between my knives in those steels I hardly ever let the wear resistance be the determining factor for which one I'll carry that day.

I do like steels like S30V and ELMAX though because they are kind of "versatile" steels that score high in performance in all categories. Toughness, wear resistance and corriosion resistance. But I don't think it makes them "super" as if one is somehow ever going to be superior to all others. I think people just started saying "super steel" because it was so catchy, I forget the word for it but you know when you make a term for something with both words starting with the same letter--our brains like that stuff for some reason.

As with all things though, the biggest reason one shouldn't think of them as "super" is because technology is always improving and it won't be long until they are obsolete. You know, people scoff at 1095, but that's actually some pretty darn good modern steel if you compare it to a lot of older technology. That's just the way it goes, today's "super steel" is going to be tomorrow's dirt cheap standard.

See for me my expectation is exactly the opposite, I want my EDC to hold up for at least a week, maybe weeks before needing a touchup, my "work knives" can be softer and get sharpened regularly when they get used because I use them only occasionally so edge retention matters less there. My EDC gets used constantly (for cutting tasks only) and even something like S30V would need to be touched up every night and frankly I don't have that kind of time to spare. Its great to have a knife that you can cut up boxes with daily without having to sharpen it every time.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Im carrying my s90v Millie today. Is that steel now obsolete? Im kidding of course, its just crazy how some people move in to the hot steel AND consider an older one as insufficient.

I do like uber steels and have a collecting bug but must concede that many of the steels now overlooked by some such as D2, S30v, 440c are still very good knife steels. 154CM's PM version is still underappreciated IMO.

 

[PayneTrain]

Ehh, I didn't really like sliepner. Like d2, it refuses to get very sharp.

After saying that I actually took the time to look up Sleipner. It's chemically pretty similar to D2, and therefore old news. So yeah, screw Sleipner.

 

[Gator97]

...Ehh, I didn't really like sliepner. Like d2, it refuses to get very sharp.

I'd have to disagree. Either botched HT on that D2, or incorrect sharpening technique.
I've had various D2 knives, including Japanese kitchen knives ~64HRC, they sharpened just fine,hair splitting sharp and hold very good edge. Compared to high vanadium alloys D2 is very easy to sharpen.

After saying that I actually took the time to look up Sleipner. It's chemically pretty similar to D2, and therefore old news. So yeah, screw Sleipner.

How are they similar? Sleipner vs. D2 composition comparison shows that Sleipner has a little over half the carbon D2 does, same for Cr, more then twice the molly.

 

[PayneTrain]

How are they similar?

I guess I was more noticing the common elements than the amounts used. I was comparing those two to others with much different compositions, so they did seem relatively similar (my graph was way more cluttered). But now that you make me look at it closer it seems even less "super", by today's standards anyway. Low carbon and not a whole lot of alloying elements, seems boring. Needs more letters.