"Super Steels" for Knife Blades?

phillipsted said:
That term incites a lot of discussion on knife boards. Personally, I believe that as technology advances, then every new generation of steel creates some cutlery alloys that perform better for some tasks than the previous generation. These we tend to call "super steels". Kind of arbitrary, but it is what it is. You might want to hunt down the steel testing thread by Jim Ankerson on this forum - it gives you some good information about the relative performance of these alloys.

OK - for my $0.02, my favorite super steels are: CTS-20CP and CPM-S90V - although I have a real fondness for M4 as well.

TedP
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See I dont consider M4 a supersteel as its a carbon steel and can rust. in my opinion a supersteel combines the stain resistance of stainless with the edge retention of a carbon steel. all these pretty much fit my criteria, in order from best to worst, but of course this is just one man's opinion.


High End of "super steel"

S110V
S90V / CTS 20CP
M390 / CTS 204P
CPM154
CTS XHP
ELmax
ZDP 189
S35VN / CTS BD30P
S30V
154CM
GV10
BG42

low end of "super steel"

or couse heat treating comes in to play but in general this is my current idea for today's steels. Let me know if anyone agrees or disagrees with this list and my definition of what constitutes a supersteel.
 
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I like Damascus steel. Makers like Devin Thomas , Mike Norris , Todd Fischer , Chad Nichols , Mike & Audra Draper are fine examples of Damascus. No, most are not 'super steels' but I think they COULD be if done right. I'm waiting for one or all of them to combine steel like cpm110, cpm90, cpm D2, S30V or S35V and the like to get a blade with the best qualities of each metal all rolled into one. Am I asking for to much?
 
ericvar101 said:
See I dont consider M4 a supersteel as its a carbon steel and can rust. in my opinion a supersteel combines the stain resistance of stainless with the edge retention of a carbon steel. all these pretty much fit my criteria, in order from best to worst, but of course this is just one man's opinion.

Let me know if anyone agrees or disagrees with this list and my definition of what constitutes a supersteel.
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This is pretty amusing to me. I'm the exact opposite. I have a very hard time thinking of ANY stainless steel as a supersteel. I VASTLY prefer non-stainless for edge holding, and tend to look down my nose on stainless. 40 years ago that thinking might have had some merit, but not any more, I will admit. Old habits die hard. :D

I'm still looking for a steel to beat my CPM 10V at 64.5HRC. A few have come close, I will admit. I have a knife in S110V at 63 coming that might give it a run for it's money. But I might not admit it. :D
 
sodak said:
This is pretty amusing to me. I'm the exact opposite. I have a very hard time thinking of ANY stainless steel as a supersteel. I VASTLY prefer non-stainless for edge holding, and tend to look down my nose on stainless. 40 years ago that thinking might have had some merit, but not any more, I will admit. Old habits die hard. :D

I'm still looking for a steel to beat my CPM 10V at 64.5HRC. A few have come close, I will admit. I have a knife in S110V at 63 coming that might give it a run for it's money. But I might not admit it. :D
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Work from Phil Wilson in the 10V?
 
Bohler k294 will beat 10v because its 3rd generation PM steel technology but its pretty well the same composition.
 
gine said:
Bohler k294 will beat 10v because its 3rd generation PM steel technology but its pretty well the same composition.
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The 2 really are in the same class from my testing, A11 is A11. :D

The closest thing I have seen to 10V/K294 has been S110V at 65 HRC, I tested S110V at 63.5 HRC and there was still a noticeable difference, it was a lot closer at 65 HRC from what I saw, didn't run it all the way out for obvious reasons, but K294 at 64 HRC still beat it.

But almost nobody will see S110V at 65 anyway. :D

That said cutting rope with K294 is like cutting with a hacksaw it's so aggresive. :D
 
A super steel is a PM alloy. Pretty simple.
 
Ankerson said:
The 2 really are in the same class from my testing, A11 is A11. :D

The closest thing I have seen to 10V/K294 has been S110V at 65 HRC, I tested S110V at 63.5 HRC and there was still a noticeable difference, it was a lot closer at 65 HRC from what I saw, didn't run it all the way out for obvious reasons, but K294 at 64 HRC still beat it.

But almost nobody will see S110V at 65 anyway. :D

That said cutting rope with K294 is like cutting with a hacksaw it's so aggresive. :D
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S110v @65 must have been from phil? He told me that this grade @65 is quite brittle. But if its used as a light slicer I think it would be fine. I think he runs them around 63-63.5 usually.Someone must of signed a waver to get him to stretch it out to 65 h&c:)
 
A lot of premium steels listed so far.

But I would classify CPM Rex 121 as a super steel. I just wish I could get my hands on a knife with that steel in a design that I like.
 
I don't see why people keep considering a very-high alloy steel as super steel :thumbdn::foot:

REX-121 is very brittle, as so as Maxamet, 15V etc... just look at its properties and anybody with some clue about metallurgy would know that its wasn't suit as knife blade steel...

This would be a good example.

[video=youtube;HCHzN68Bopw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCHzN68Bopw[/video]
 
So let me get this straight, a steel at Rc 70 likely designed for long term cutting fails at abusive tasks like being bent to the side and its not good enough to be a super steel? I guess if it can't pass the baton and pry test its not a super steel. (This space has been reserved for a smiley not suited for general discussion)
 
jstn said:
James, I have an ELMAX blade you made for me not too long ago that has gotten a lot of use. It has certainly been super in every regard, noticeably better than the ELMAX I have in my productions which was already quite good. Must be the heat treat?
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I'm very glad to hear that! Good HT is important for any steel. Credit goes to the fine folks at Peters Heat Treating for that :)

shqxk said:
REX-121 is very brittle, as so as Maxamet, 15V etc... just look at its properties and anybody with some clue about metallurgy would know that its wasn't suit as knife blade steel...
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Well, that really depends on what you want to cut with it. I like to think I have some clue about metallurgy and desirable blade properties. Matching the steel, geometry and HT to the task is paramount. Would I recommend REX-121 @ 70Rc for a bushcraft/survival knife? Of course not. For a dedicated slicer that won't be beaten and stabbed into/twisted out of trees? Sure, why not?

Considering the rather inappropriate (for that alloy and hardness) tests shown in that thread, actually I'd say that knife did pretty well.
 
shqxk said:
I don't see why people keep considering a very-high alloy steel as super steel :thumbdn::foot:

REX-121 is very brittle, as so as Maxamet, 15V etc... just look at its properties and anybody with some clue about metallurgy would know that its wasn't suit as knife blade steel...
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Two questions.

1. What characteristics would a steel need to have for you to consider it super?

2. What steels do you consider super?
 
gine said:
S110v @65 must have been from phil? He told me that this grade @65 is quite brittle. But if its used as a light slicer I think it would be fine. I think he runs them around 63-63.5 usually.Someone must of signed a waver to get him to stretch it out to 65 h&c:)
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Yeah, it's the one I use in the kitchen. :)

He keeps them in the 63 range just in case of side loading I guess, also depends on how thin they are ground behind the edge, usually in the .010" range.

No, I don't baby it at all and haven't seen any issues with it.
 
Ankerson said:
Yeah, it's the one I use in the kitchen. :)

He keeps them in the 63 range just in case of side loading I guess, also depends on how thin they are ground behind the edge, usually in the .010" range.

No, I don't baby it at all and haven't seen any issues with it.
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S110v in the kitchen must go looooong time before it requires sharpening. I use vg-10 and 1084 in the kitchen and they last and last in kitchen use.

I like to keep my kitchen knives hair popping sharp, so I tend to lean towards lower carbide steels because they don't get dull enough to benefit from those

wear resistant carbides. But s110v would be fun to use specially @65:eek:
 
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OP, understand that fashion exists in the knife business just as it does in the apparel business. "Super" steel would probably be better termed "fashionable" steel.
 
^^^ Blade grinds are like models in the fashion industry "thin is in":)
 
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