Super Steels: What's the point?

Sonnydaze said:
Seems to me, Jim, that maybe Pete1977 should send his s30v Military to one of the forum members here, who is adept at sharpening, and then Pete can check it out once it's returned to him. And, however it turns out, Pete could post his comparative results in a future (and interesting) thread.

The man is a fisherman who cuts a lot of rope. It would be extremely valuable for him to know how to have the sharpest and longest-lasting blade-steel available. For him, it's MUCH MORE than just a hobby.

Would be nice if one of the guys here could make him an offer.

I can't volunteer, because I'm an absolute idiot at sharpening. Just starting to get together some equipment...

Sonny
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He stated he doesn't have that S30V knife anymore.
 
Gator97 said:
I understand that, and I have nothing against real world results. However, geometry and other variables can not be used to determine steel A vs. B. In other words, all variables should be equal or very close to make the statement that steel A outperformed steel B, unless the steel can't support particular geometry. Otherwise, it's just a knife A doing better than knife B, in that particular test... I don't argue with that, there are tons of reasons why that could happen.
I argue that it is incorrect to make assumption about the steel using two vastly different knives used in one test, and I can argue that properly HTed and sharpened S30V will not dull in 2 cuts of the average rope either.




They are also newer, made with better technologies and have higher working hardness and toughness (not uniformly but still). All that helps with what you said, attaining thin edges without excessive chipping.
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Don't forget some of those steels have extremely high compression strength at high hardness (64/65 HRC), that means they can take those very thin grinds and edges. :thumbup:

A11 (K294 and 10V) come to mind here.
 
Pete,

For field maintenance, there are pocket diamond sharpeners available and should not cost hundreds of dollar. Google taidea, I just got one, if DMT is too costly. It's a bit coarse but eats steel aggresively.

You do freehand, so jig dependency should not be an issue. It might allow you to appreciate & use high end steels without the concern of touching up becoming a hassle.

Unfortunately I can't afford any super steel yet down here, to be able to test them out, quite price prohibitive. The highest I'd ever got was AUS8A (CS) and 440C (BM), but those were long time back, before I learnt much about sharpening:).

Nowadays, got to make do with 8Cr and '440C' (likely 9Cr). :(
 
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Ankerson said:
He is correct there, I have seen it personally in testing myself and more than a few times and with different steels.
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Are you talking about slicing performance or edge degradation (rolling, etc.)? Cuz I think we sorted that one out.
 
Pseudonym said:
Are you talking about slicing performance or edge degradation (rolling, etc.)? Cuz I think we sorted that one out.
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I was talking about blades that are ground thin and with thin edge geometry will perform better (Edge retention) in cutting that ones with thicker grinds and edges.

I have seen things that would blow peoples mind like N690 performing on the same level as S90V when comparing apples to oranges.
 
Ankerson said:
I was talking about blades that are ground thin and with thin edge geometry will perform better (Edge retention) in cutting that ones with thicker grinds and edges.

I have seen things that would blow peoples mind like N690 performing on the same level as S90V when comparing apples to oranges.
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Oh yeah, I was just talking about steel/edge angles, all else being equal. Like if you had 2 Militaries: one in S30V, and one in 420HC for some reason. But he did make his point that thinner knives will still outperform thicker ones even if they're not as sharp.

I just meant that a more obtuse edge should avoid rolling and whatnot more easily than an acute one. And that a better steel will support a higher performance (i.e. acute) edge longer than a lesser steel.
 
Pseudonym said:
Oh yeah, I was just talking about steel/edge angles, all else being equal. Like if you had 2 Militaries: one in S30V, and one in 420HC for some reason. But he did make his point that thinner knives will still outperform thicker ones even if they're not as sharp.

I just meant that a more obtuse edge should avoid rolling and whatnot more easily than an acute one.
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Depends on the steels and hardness, but yeah thicker edges are tougher, but one loses cutting performance (Efficiency) and edge retention.
 
Ankerson said:
Depends on the steels and hardness, but yeah thicker edges are tougher, but one loses cutting performance (Efficiency) and edge retention.
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Well for example, I thinned the crap out of my Sage 1 (down to 20-25 inclusive, which is really thin for me), and the slicing performance skyrocketed, but the edge retention went down a little (not as much as performance increased). I ended up putting a 40 degree microbevel on it to compensate.

I'm not sure how that contributes except to try to show that I'm not a complete doorknob :P
 
Pseudonym said:
Well for example, I thinned the crap out of my Sage 1 (down to 20-25 inclusive, which is really thin for me), and the slicing performance skyrocketed, but the edge retention went down a little (not as much as performance increased). I ended up putting a 40 degree microbevel on it to compensate.

I'm not sure how that contributes except to try to show that I'm not a complete doorknob :P
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That's why I said it depends on the steels and the hardness. :)

Something like ZDP-189 at 65 HRC you can do that because the hardness is high enough to support that thin edge, but it's better to have the blade thin to begin with, that's where Customs come into play here.
 
Ankerson said:
I am done beating my head against the wall in this thread.....
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Jim,

Don't take it too hard. Your test & video is valuable to me who have not used the particular steel & knife, and to compare my own experience. If it differs, then it opens a new factor to be investigated. That's the fun of learning!
 
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