Super Steels

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unky_gumbi

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Aug 28, 2009
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I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts on the state of knife steels is. Will today's super steels be tomorrows 420? Can the manufactures push thing further without pushing prices through the roof? What is the line between super steel and common good steel in your opinion.
I don't own any knives made of what I would consider a super steel, but I am more less happy with what I have except one 420 blade. I own 2 420 blades, one is crap one is great, a couple of mystery high carbon blades that work ok, one D2 blade that I love, and the knife I made from 5160 that sits right at the same performance of the D2.
 
I think that the biggest advance in knife steel has to be the reliable scientific heat treating process. I think we have pushed martesitic steel just about as far as it can go but there are other alternitives such as pure carbide, amorphous metals and coatings such as DLC and TiN
 
I think that the biggest advance in knife steel has to be the reliable scientific heat treating process. I think we have pushed martesitic steel just about as far as it can go but there are other alternatives such as pure carbide, amorphous metals and coatings such as DLC and TiN
 
Without a major breakthrough in grinding or shaping technology CPM S110V and ZDP-189 will stay the best every day use knife steel for a long time to come. We found the practical limits of current production methods when Crucible tried to make a batch of S150V (that's 15% Vanadium), and the end result was barely usable. Even if you were to try and make something with it the steel is so wear resistant it would take a ridiculous amount of time and energy to do so.
 
I'm wondering when the next MAJOR breakthrough will happen in the cutlery world. The kind where the word "revolutionary" would really be applicable as opposed to it's current overuse in descriptions where it's really not warranted.

Something that would would make steel as we know it obsolete as a knife blade material.

It'll happen. It's just a matter of 'will I see it in my lifetime?' (I'm 52, BTW):eek:

Pocket Light Saber, anyone? 4 inch "blade", maybe?:)

Jeez, I better go to bed now...
 
Well some custom makers are using Stellite - I know very little about it other than it's super hard and a bitch to work with
 
antonio_luiz said:
Well some custom makers are using Stellite - I know very little about it other than it's super hard and a bitch to work with
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You got that right, years ago i purchased a slab of stellite and took it to a local maker. He laughed set it in the window sill in his shop. He then made me a knife out of 154-cm, I was happy he was happier. He said its very hard steel and harder on his equipment/tools. It's probably still sitting in his window sill. It was very expensive back then in the 80's, who knows how much it is now. Good Luck with the stellite.
 
If better steels come out in the future there has to be an accompanying way for end users to maintain their blades unless one day there comes a knife that does not need sharpening. I think we are hitting the balance among good steels, cost and our ablilty to sharpen them.
 
Most people out there uses 420HC or softer, and they don't feel they miss anything. Victorinox is a good example. I think the "revolution" will come when they create a material (probably through nano technology) that can be cast quickly and efficiently like plastic, yet harden like steel.
 
I don't think I would ever want to see the knife that never needs to be sharpened, or that would need new sharpening methods. I find that sharpening is one of the joys of knife ownership. It would be nice to see something that will hold an edge for a long time, be reasonable to sharpen, rust resistant or proof and still be tough and resilient to damage. I think that would be the perfect steel. Kind of the holly grail of knife steel.
 
unky_gumbi said:
something that will hold an edge for a long time, be reasonable to sharpen
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So, something that's both easy and difficult to abrade?

I think the next big step is going to be net shape blade manufacturing. The steels that are really pushing the limits of workability are typically produced by powder metallurgy, but they're still sintered as ingots then cut and ground to shape. As the scales of both rapid prototyping and sintering operations continue to grow it will become cost effective to pop blades out of a mold that require almost no additional finishing before assembly.
 
Well I did say the holy grail of knife steel:)
I feel that the steels have reached their limits and any new advancements will come in the production methods used to make both knives and steel. Something that will improve the end product and lower manufacturing costs. Thing is that consumers are fickle and unless there is something "new and improved" we tend to stay with what we have.
 
I am sure better steels will come along. What I am not sure of is how much better they will be. As blade steels improve, makers start to approach the limits of physical chemistry, and the improvements become incrementally smaller. The better things get, the less one can do to make them better. Still, it will be fun to see what the metallurgists dream up next, and, I am sure that whatever it is, I will want one.
 
Steel in the H1 category is interesting and might lend to future innovation. I just recently learned about H1's inability to take a full flat grind (on a production scale). Maybe a major company will figure out a process for it. What makes it interesting is that is is differentially hardened by its work hardening process. This allows for a hard edge and a soft spine and therefore a tough knife. The edge retention is acceptable IMO and it is really easy to sharpen.

I would like to know what else can be done with work hardened steels and where they will go in the future.
 
S30V is pretty darned good steel. I don't see how much better than S30V the average knife consumer could possibly want. Then again, I've been perfectly happy with ATS-34 and 154CM for years, so I guess I'm not picky.
 
a synthetic polymer or carbon based material (see: buckyball) with the ability to be sharp like steel, tough like steel, only lighter and able to flex rather than break, without losing original shape.
 
whether ferrous alloys can improve a great amount ,i do'nt know. maybe we will see polymers able to surpasse steel [ plas-steel] perhaps a living cellular material that is placed in a nutrient bath to rebuild every evening.
 
It would be cool to see something with the corrosion resistance of H1 and the hardness of ZDP189.
And since we're dreaming, with a wonderful damascus-like pattern out of the box!
 
Did I double post? how does that happen anyway?
i think it is possible to make self sharpening knives. If you coat one side of a blade all the way to the edge with somthing like TiN then the as you cut the steel wears away, but the TiN remains, thus "self sharpening" problem is that these knives never get very sharp to start with, actually pretty dull by our standards
 
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