Supersteels. Do we really need 'em?

chumaman said:
Powder metallurgy
Powder Metal Steel
Powder steels can be incredibly hard which allow them to take a really sharp edge and due to that hardness hold on to it, which means longer times between re-sharpening and more use for you.

Powder steel is formed by mixing very finely ground powders of the various metals required for the mix, compressing them into shape and then heating them to make them bond together. It allows for a near perfect mixure of all the different elements to ensure the end result is as good as current technologies will allow.

This is not the kind of steel made by old blacksmiths sprinkling metal powders around, this is specialist chemistry done under extremely strict conditions in "the lab" to produce the most "perfect" mixture of steel possible in modern times and technologies.

There are different mixes of powdered steel available some more stain resistant than others. For knife making they are all exceptional steels.
Click to expand...

I understand that the process is far more complex than what I stated. I just view super steels as a marketing strategy. Basically S35VN is an upgraded version of S30V, 154CM is an upgraded version of 440c, etc. I realize those aren’t exactly super steels but a few examples any way.
 
TheEdge01 said:
I understand that the process is far more complex than what I stated. I just view super steels as a marketing strategy. Basically S35VN is an upgraded version of S30V, 154CM is an upgraded version of 440c, etc. I realize those aren’t exactly super steels but a few examples any way.
Click to expand...
if there wasn't demand for it, they wouldn't do it.
 
Mo2 said:
if there wasn't demand for it, they wouldn't do it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, they know folks are out for bigger and better products hence the super steels. Labeling it Super Steel is more appealing to the consumer than. Kind of like linking an item to the military or law enforcement (M&P) gives folks a warm fuzzy feeling and instills a sense of confidence in their purchase.
 
TheEdge01 said:
Absolutely, they know folks are out for bigger and better products hence the super steels. Labeling it Super Steel is more appealing to the consumer than. Kind of like linking an item to the military or law enforcement (M&P) gives folks a warm fuzzy feeling and instills a sense of confidence in their purchase.
Click to expand...
I'm just glad I can obtain super steel through mass production knives rather than seeking out a custom maker to make me one at triple the price or more. the advantage with the custom makers has, is the ability to control the heat treatment of that specific blade, ie if you want an optimal ht they can provide that (assuming they have a profile for that steel, or outsourcing to some to do the ht).

but yea, after endless soft steel I started to seek out super steel for edge retention for my daily tasks. less sharpening makes me happy. I use my knives more often than most do.
 
Mo2 said:
I'm just glad I can obtain super steel through mass production knives rather than seeking out a custom maker to make me one at triple the price or more. the advantage with the custom makers has, is the ability to control the heat treatment of that specific blade, ie if you want an optimal ht they can provide that (assuming they have a profile for that steel, or outsourcing to some to do the ht).

but yea, after endless soft steel I started to seek out super steel for edge retention for my daily tasks. less sharpening makes me happy. I use my knives more often than most do.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, high quality production knives are a blessing. Don’t get me wrong I like super steels, and extreme edge retention has its benefits.
 
I've never seen the designation "super" steel outside of this forum. Lots of high alloy newer steels coming out all the time, it's good to have choices. I enjoy trying them and seeing if any fit my needs.

I see a lot of misconceptions in this thread, e.g., hard to sharpen. Some of my best knives with "super" steels are absolutely the easiest to sharpen, from "drag across your wrist dull" to razor sharp in 5 minutes or less. I love them because at the hardness they are at, burring is minimal to not noticeable.

I find it amusing when heat treat is brought up. Any steel with a sub-par heat treat is going to perform like crap. A high alloy "super" steel that's optimized for it's design with a good heat treat can give you orders of magnitude more performance, not just 10% more. Check out Ankerson's testing thread for the numbers.

And yes, I still enjoy O1 or 52100 in my garage or hiking in the woods. I don't feel the need to have to choose, it's ok to like both. I still think Victorinox makes the best knives for the money, hands down.
 
I just upgraded my kitchen knife from a victorinox to a takamura migaki with a R2 core. Guess I'm about to have a real life experience of the pros/cons of a supersteel. My main gripe with the vic was the frequence of sharpening so this will be interesting..

Love how thin this knife is behind the edge.
 
353 said:
I just upgraded my kitchen knife from a victorinox to a takamura migaki with a R2 core. Guess I'm about to have a real life experience of the pros/cons of a supersteel. My main gripe with the vic was the frequence of sharpening so this will be interesting..

Love how thin this knife is behind the edge.
Click to expand...
Look http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=R2,,CPM 35VN,,Elmax&ni=549,,6089,,667&hrn=1&gm=0
Can you already on this basis to reach a conclusion?
I hope you'll just cut vegetables and gently o_O
 
353,
How do you like the Takamura Migaki? I am interested in buying one myself. I have heard the make excellent kitchen cutlery. If i remember correctly they are extremely thin at the edge.
 
I have a victorinox “hiker” and several Leatherman’s that see daily usage. So too do my millies in s110v, cruwear, s90v, CT’s-204p.
 
I don’t know what it is about m390 (and its american cousins) but I find them among the easiest steels to sharpen. For the longest time 154cm was my favourite steel but somehow m390 is even easier to sharpen than that! Somehow it is easier to sharpen than Elmax which has alloying elements in the same proportion as m390 except each one is abit less. (I have always thought of Elmax as m390’s little brother when comparing their composition) Zknives.com’s steel ap speculates that it is due to the fact that m390 seems to never form a stubborn burr.

I think Bohler somehow stumbled upon a miracle recipie. M390 has quickly become my new favourite steel when it comes to smaller edc knives or folders.
 
Lapedog,

That is interesting. You seem to be very knowledgeable about steel compositions. Have you had any experience with M4? I have heard mixed reviews. I know some sprint runs were made with the Griptilians and the Spyderco Gayle Bradley uses it. Thanks.
 
dirc said:
bring this one back from the dead...

I'm also a fan of not blowing hundreds of $ on some new fangled super steel. I get it, but I just have too strong a value component built into my thought process.

Recent reading has brought me to a few great contenders for value steel for a knife (in my case, I like high toughness also, but 3v is much too expensive)

So, it's down to :
sleipner
14c28n
vg10 (used to cost more, but it's down in price these days)
154cm (same thing...)

in all of these steels you can get a quality knife for under $100
of course, heat treat is important so I dislike going to complete no-name-chinese makers... but these days they have really good QC

of these, the 'newer' ones are sleip and 14c28n both are fairly highly regarded but it's difficult to find toughness values


so, which would you choose as your EDC/multi-use/outdoor type?

(ah sorry I forgot to include the 'generic' low cost Chinese steels, like 9cr18mov or even 7cr17)
Click to expand...

Not sure if anyone actually tried answering your question. If they did, I guess I missed it.

To me, of the options you list, I will take vg10 every day and twice on Sunday, followed by 154cm.

But I guess I'm a "supersteel guy" as I favor M390/CTS 204P, S110V and Elmax. Each has its advantages. But frankly, IMO S30V might be the best bang for the buck. And I love CPM 3V and it is not too expensive to me for what you get, but it also is not quite stainless so it has its limitations.

Good luck.
 
While I do enjoy the edge retention of S30V, S90V, CPM3V, there is something about 12C27N and its ability to be quickly touched up that I love. I agree that VG10, 154CM are great steels as they hold a decent edge and sharpen well.
 
The Virginian said:
Not sure if anyone actually tried answering your question. If they did, I guess I missed it.

To me, of the options you list, I will take vg10 every day and twice on Sunday, followed by 154cm.

But I guess I'm a "supersteel guy" as I favor M390/CTS 204P, S110V and Elmax. Each has its advantages. But frankly, IMO S30V might be the best bang for the buck. And I love CPM 3V and it is not too expensive to me for what you get, but it also is not quite stainless so it has its limitations.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
I don’t even know what sleipner is. For economy, 14c28 used to be by far the cheapest, but it’s price is rising while vg-10 is dropping a little. 154cm seems like it would have the same problems as 440c(large carbide size). Chinese makers could import steels like 14c28 or vg10 but the cost of doing so would likely result in the maker just stamping this mark on one of their steels like 8cr13. There wouldn’t be anyone to stop him or even to slap his wrist.
 
Siety338 said:
While I do enjoy the edge retention of S30V, S90V, CPM3V, there is something about 12C27N and its ability to be quickly touched up that I love. I agree that VG10, 154CM are great steels as they hold a decent edge and sharpen well.
Click to expand...

If you really think about it, all well made knives and their blade steels are awesome. Any of them is a gift when it’s needed. The last 4 you mention are used a lot in large knives. Some really expensive ones too. I’ve got a bowie in 12c27.
 
I agree that all bladesteel is awesome for their specific intended use whether it be its edge retention, ease of sharpening, rust prevention, etc.
 
Siety338 said:
Yonose,

What happens to be your preferred steel of choice for an EDC folder?
Click to expand...

Jeez, I can’t say I prefer just 1, but I rotate CT’s-204p, s110v, cruwear, s90v, 154cm, s30v. Keychain’s are hap40 and aogami blue.
Edit: I always have a sak hiker which is like 420hc or 1.4116 Idk for sure
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top