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Suppose a US City Gets Nuked. . .
- Thread starter beezaur
- Start date
For me I love the preparedness stuff about food and water and of course guns etc. but,
When I look at a small nuke, or bird flu, or whatever, what I see is economic effects ranging from a recession to a very deep and lingering recession.
I think the most important and least inspiring aspect of survival is paying off your credit cards , saving a lot of money, and being prepared to lose your home or autos if you don't prepare for a layoff or losing your business.
The govt. will do whatever is necessary to get food and water to people, but it won't make your car payment or your rent.
It is easy to do the things I like such as collecting wheat grinders and wheat in nitrogen filled cans and LED lights, but the boring stuff like trying to prepare for 6 months without work is difficult.
When I look at a small nuke, or bird flu, or whatever, what I see is economic effects ranging from a recession to a very deep and lingering recession.
I think the most important and least inspiring aspect of survival is paying off your credit cards , saving a lot of money, and being prepared to lose your home or autos if you don't prepare for a layoff or losing your business.
The govt. will do whatever is necessary to get food and water to people, but it won't make your car payment or your rent.
It is easy to do the things I like such as collecting wheat grinders and wheat in nitrogen filled cans and LED lights, but the boring stuff like trying to prepare for 6 months without work is difficult.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2003
- Messages
- 717
With all due respect to whatever city gets hit, unless it is in the top 10, the country won't even miss it. If it is terrorist presumably it will be in the top ten. Still there isn't any reason for the who country to go nuts. There have been many bombs detonated on the grounds of the US. Los Vegas hotels used to pack you a lunch and welders glasses and send you out to see the fun. Cancer rates in the downwind southers states were affected, but not so much as to awaken concern amoung folks not privy to the data, for some time.
No way Iran is going to send a bomb to the US. I'm a big floppy pacifist, but I would push the button to whipe the whole middle eastern region right off the map if that happened. Even rumsfeld and cheney might turn to active service in that event. The so called crazy president they have is not the guy in charge. He is just the public face, and sure he seems wound a little tight, he is designed to take advantage of politcal fruits the US invasion of Iraq has made available. The main geo political advantages of the Iraq war and occupation have been for Iran. The US is the best partner they have ever had: Defeated their historic eneny without their having had to lift a muscle, compare that to the blood bath the experienced during the Iraq/Iran war, like a WWI without water; delivered to them their souther Iraqui ethnic brothers when they were otherwise isolated in the arab world; weakened Israels position in the region imeasurably; and driven up the value of their oil. Where do they send the card?
No way Iran is going to send a bomb to the US. I'm a big floppy pacifist, but I would push the button to whipe the whole middle eastern region right off the map if that happened. Even rumsfeld and cheney might turn to active service in that event. The so called crazy president they have is not the guy in charge. He is just the public face, and sure he seems wound a little tight, he is designed to take advantage of politcal fruits the US invasion of Iraq has made available. The main geo political advantages of the Iraq war and occupation have been for Iran. The US is the best partner they have ever had: Defeated their historic eneny without their having had to lift a muscle, compare that to the blood bath the experienced during the Iraq/Iran war, like a WWI without water; delivered to them their souther Iraqui ethnic brothers when they were otherwise isolated in the arab world; weakened Israels position in the region imeasurably; and driven up the value of their oil. Where do they send the card?
Surely it would wreck the economy and bring the country to its knees.
911 multiplied by 10, much less by a hundred times would send this country into a huge tailspin.
Besides, of course it will be in the top ten, no one is going to expend the effort to make their great statement in Wichita, Kansas.
demoteamone
BANNED
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- Feb 21, 2006
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- 260
beezaur said:And yes, I am serious.
First let me say that I don't take myself very seriously about all my preparedness gear. It is useful, and I actually do intend to rely on it should the need arise, but primarily this is a hobby. Preparing for the end of the world is fun for me, and darn it, I like the toys and enjoy practicing the skills.
But, I know this middle-aged professional who is through-and-through a political animal, to the extent of being somewhat connected at high levels. He basically thinks I'm a nutcase. If anything bad is going to happen it is going to be economical, and you will need your political connections, not your woodworking tools and 500 lbs of rice and beans. We all know the type.
Now all of a sudden he is worried that a US city will be nuked. And he's seriously worried too, not just the political issue of the month, but real, legitimate, voice-gets-soft-discussing-it concern.
Why? Why would a politically semi-connected professional, who has never been a preparedness freak of any sort, suddenly be worried about a city going away?
So it got me thinking, suppose a US city does get nuked. Let's say just a small device, like one of the two that ended World War Two, vaporizes the core of the large city nearest you. What is the situation in the aftermath? How chaotic do you think things would get? How would you deal with long term utility outages, overwhelmed authorities, and possibly having to fend for yourself?
In other words, how would you deal with it?
Scott
Prepare people to Nuclear explotion ... it would be foolish
Nuclear explosion:
1]flash
This cause flash blindness. The severity depens on proximity to the burst,directin, time of day, level of cloud base, and the weather.
2]fireball
The size of this sphere of hot gas indicates yield[size] of the devise.
3]heat
Massive heat radiation in straight line causes two of fire: primary,started directly by the radiation, and secondary, caused by the blast rupturing gas mains.
4]blast and shock
This is caused by pressure differential. The blast has bosh a positive and
negative phese, i,e a push=and pull effect.
5] radiation
There are three types:
a} Initial, very high levels, released during the first minute;mainly gamma.
b}residual, or fallout, radioactive dust emetting alpha, beta and gamma.
c}Neutron=induced activity; objects in the path of the initial radiation will themselves become radioactive.
6] treeTransient Radiation Effect on Equipmement accompanies the initial radiation and wiill temporarily make communications unworkable.
7]EMP
Electro=Magnetic Phenomena, ionisation of the air, causes wire=rangin damege to electronic equipment.
8] cloud
Note the characteristic shape, and be awere that an airburst may not produce a mushroom cloud at all.
I think that it is the politician's job not to make this happen in the first place.
About me if this happens, I will like to be the first person to go
no skills need indeed:thumbup:
silenthunterstudios
Slipjoint Addict
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- Feb 2, 2005
- Messages
- 20,039
Razorback - Knives said:
Scott, there are still a lot of unprepared morons in the area of northern Harford County. I wouldn't say I'm a moron, but I'm definitely unprepared. If a nuclear attack were to occur, I'd be up shites creek, but anything else, that cut out our power wouldn't be too bad.
If something happened in the winter:
Have a wood stove, and ample supply of dry and green wood, for food and for cooking on, also boil water on it. Have a pool, and a stream at the bottom of our property for drinking and bathing, if it was real bad, wouldn't use water from the pool for flushing indoor toilets, would either build an outhouse or do it the way God intended. Have food stores, always hunting and fishing nearby.
If something happened in summer, have outdoor grills, ample amounts of wood and charcoal for cooking. Same deal with water supply as above. Quicker access to fishing, but presumably in and EOW scenario, gas would be in pretty high demand and would be near impossible to get.
Even though a lot of the old families have moved out of my neighborhood, just found out that one of my neighbors is moving yesterday actually, everybody gets along, and would help each other out, and be able to police our community justly and effectively. Hell, for our "yearly" manhunts (every summer, someone is always either getting off the prison work gang truck, or doing a bank robbery botch and fleeing in our neck of the woods), every family is out on the front porch with a shotgun/rifle (and/or a case of beer, depending on the mood), waiting for a chance to take a shot at whatever fugitive is coming through. Thankfully for those guys, the cops have gotten them first.
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- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 713
Every time the weather man predicts snow the stores instantly run out of batteries, bread, and milk....In the deep south! If they react proportionaly to a major attack I will just wait 'till they knock themselves out runnin around and eat sheep 'till the harvest comes in.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2000
- Messages
- 1,058
demoteamone said:Prepare people to Nuclear explotion ... it would be foolish
Nuclear explosion:
1]flash
This cause flash blindness. The severity depens on proximity to the burst,directin, time of day, level of cloud base, and the weather.
2]fireball
The size of this sphere of hot gas indicates yield[size] of the devise.
3]heat
Massive heat radiation in straight line causes two of fire: primary,started directly by the radiation, and secondary, caused by the blast rupturing gas mains.
4]blast and shock
This is caused by pressure differential. The blast has bosh a positive and
negative phese, i,e a push=and pull effect.
5] radiation
There are three types:
a} Initial, very high levels, released during the first minute;mainly gamma.
b}residual, or fallout, radioactive dust emetting alpha, beta and gamma.
c}Neutron=induced activity; objects in the path of the initial radiation will themselves become radioactive.
6] treeTransient Radiation Effect on Equipmement accompanies the initial radiation and wiill temporarily make communications unworkable.
7]EMP
Electro=Magnetic Phenomena, ionisation of the air, causes wire=rangin damege to electronic equipment.
8] cloud
Note the characteristic shape, and be awere that an airburst may not produce a mushroom cloud at all.
I think that it is the politician's job not to make this happen in the first place.
About me if this happens, I will like to be the first person to go
While I agree that it would behoove us to prevent such an occurrance, it doesn't do you any good to just give up without a plan. What if you're not the 'first to go'? You'll be kicking yourself for not thinking about how you'd deal with surviving the aftermath of such an event. Though I suppose this sort of attitude leaves more forage for the rest of us.... so thanks for that at least...
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2003
- Messages
- 717
"Surely it would wreck the economy and bring the country to its knees."
Absolutely not. There was an interesting graphic in the recent Macnamara film about all the cities hit in Japan during WWII, there were something like 60 major raids (just a loose recollection) they compared the % devastation and human cassulties and for effect matched them up with equal size US cities. Of course Japan and Germany were largely wrecked but it took more than one hit on a modest sized city.
"911 multiplied by 10, much less by a hundred times would send this country into a huge tailspin."
The over-reaction that followed might, but the loss of a city of 1 million people is .3% of the population, and that would be a pretty good sized bomb to get everyone.
"Besides, of course it will be in the top ten, no one is going to expend the effort to make their great statement in Wichita, Kansas."
I would have said the same thing about the Oklahoma city bombing, but there is no accounting for taste. Clearly OBL had the World Trade center in his sights. There could, however, be some advantage to regional sites. I read somewhere that someone threatened Toronto since in much of the world people don't know the difference, but in the US frame it's not even up wind so they wouldn't necesarilly get so steamed as to run of and... invade Iraq.
I'm not saying I wouldn't miss a million people or otherwise take it seriously. But your "911 multiplied by... 100" would put you in the range of the firebombing of Dresden which is regarded as a war crime in some circle precisely because it had no impact whatsoever on the outcome of the war.
Absolutely not. There was an interesting graphic in the recent Macnamara film about all the cities hit in Japan during WWII, there were something like 60 major raids (just a loose recollection) they compared the % devastation and human cassulties and for effect matched them up with equal size US cities. Of course Japan and Germany were largely wrecked but it took more than one hit on a modest sized city.
"911 multiplied by 10, much less by a hundred times would send this country into a huge tailspin."
The over-reaction that followed might, but the loss of a city of 1 million people is .3% of the population, and that would be a pretty good sized bomb to get everyone.
"Besides, of course it will be in the top ten, no one is going to expend the effort to make their great statement in Wichita, Kansas."
I would have said the same thing about the Oklahoma city bombing, but there is no accounting for taste. Clearly OBL had the World Trade center in his sights. There could, however, be some advantage to regional sites. I read somewhere that someone threatened Toronto since in much of the world people don't know the difference, but in the US frame it's not even up wind so they wouldn't necesarilly get so steamed as to run of and... invade Iraq.
I'm not saying I wouldn't miss a million people or otherwise take it seriously. But your "911 multiplied by... 100" would put you in the range of the firebombing of Dresden which is regarded as a war crime in some circle precisely because it had no impact whatsoever on the outcome of the war.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2003
- Messages
- 717
"Note: most of the responding emergency services were local, not federal. Maybe that is why they did better than New Orleans."
If this is to suggest that local services, being closer to the problem are more effective, then I think New Orleans is the exact opposite. Clearly the quality of local response there was terrible. The feds got blamed because FEMA was a good target. In other states with competant local responders like Florida the same problems don't happen.
If this is to suggest that local services, being closer to the problem are more effective, then I think New Orleans is the exact opposite. Clearly the quality of local response there was terrible. The feds got blamed because FEMA was a good target. In other states with competant local responders like Florida the same problems don't happen.
I think that the New Orleans situation was so much different from New York's because of the leadership involved.
Mayor Giuliani's leadership and performance was outstanding.
Mayor Nagin was a dismal failure and a clear example of total imcompetence.
The same with the governors.
As for the original question....
If a nuke hit Charlotte then I would most likely die shortly afterwards from radiation, since I live just across the river in Belmont.
In any event, I would probably report to the hospital where I work and start helping folks.
Mayor Giuliani's leadership and performance was outstanding.
Mayor Nagin was a dismal failure and a clear example of total imcompetence.
The same with the governors.
As for the original question....
If a nuke hit Charlotte then I would most likely die shortly afterwards from radiation, since I live just across the river in Belmont.
In any event, I would probably report to the hospital where I work and start helping folks.
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- May 5, 2006
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- 1,968
Well I don't know about all of this stuff, however -- living in Suburbopolis (40 miles due east of Manhattan) -- I do have an opinion or two.
First, I tell you that the 911 and Katrina are not Qomparible. 911 was localized. Katrina was regional. There is simply no comparison that can be made between the two events and the physical devastation caused by each event. A comparison of emotional trauma: yes. A comparison of the physical devastation, resulting chaos, and breakdown in services: absolutely not...you cannot compare these two events.
Second, I will tell you that the manner in which the aftermath of such a (nuclear) catastrophe shakes out will be dictated by how the citizenry responds, and I have written about this before in other places...
I remember those 1960's drills, the shelters, and the preparedness planning, and the stockpiles of supplies. We drilled. We planned. We prepared. However (today) our government no longer can handle rocking the boat. As long as the Sheeple can eat their burgers, swill their gas, and afford their big screen TV's all is good. When the SHTF the government (and Sheeple) will blame the terrorists...or blame the hurricane...or blame the earthQuake...or blame the tsunami...and will make no make mention of our collective irresponsible indolence in failing to prepare for the inevitable.
This is not an argument, it is a fact. It is an objective observation grounded in reality.
The politicians fear that if they ask the American people to sacrifice 1 burger...1 ounce of gas...1 sQuare inch of TV screenage...then the people will vote them out...and they probably would. Gone are the days when the nation came together in common sacrifice for the betterment of the entire nation. I fear we have become the "I Got Mine" generation who are content to watch others (the military) sacrifice while we grow larger and larger living off the fat of the land.
If Satan's Minions light up Manhattan the result will be chaos here on The Island. The stores will empty in hours, the bridges will close or be destroyed and the result will make Katrina seem a trip to Disney World. With three (3) bridges serving over 7 million Brooklyn, Queens, and Long Island residents the citizenry -- lacking food and water -- will turn on themselves and the savagery will be biblical.
It will be horrific.
And it could have been so very different if only...the politicians had been brave and said "we are not ready! We must plan! We must prepare! We must drill!" and if the citizenry had been willing to sacrifice.
Remember this my brothers: You only have ONE LEADER and there is only ONE PERSON who can save you: this is the person who is looking back at you in the mirror every single day of your life.
When the horror comes I CitizenQ will survive, or I will die with dignity trying to survive.
Q out.
First, I tell you that the 911 and Katrina are not Qomparible. 911 was localized. Katrina was regional. There is simply no comparison that can be made between the two events and the physical devastation caused by each event. A comparison of emotional trauma: yes. A comparison of the physical devastation, resulting chaos, and breakdown in services: absolutely not...you cannot compare these two events.
Second, I will tell you that the manner in which the aftermath of such a (nuclear) catastrophe shakes out will be dictated by how the citizenry responds, and I have written about this before in other places...
I remember those 1960's drills, the shelters, and the preparedness planning, and the stockpiles of supplies. We drilled. We planned. We prepared. However (today) our government no longer can handle rocking the boat. As long as the Sheeple can eat their burgers, swill their gas, and afford their big screen TV's all is good. When the SHTF the government (and Sheeple) will blame the terrorists...or blame the hurricane...or blame the earthQuake...or blame the tsunami...and will make no make mention of our collective irresponsible indolence in failing to prepare for the inevitable.
This is not an argument, it is a fact. It is an objective observation grounded in reality.
The politicians fear that if they ask the American people to sacrifice 1 burger...1 ounce of gas...1 sQuare inch of TV screenage...then the people will vote them out...and they probably would. Gone are the days when the nation came together in common sacrifice for the betterment of the entire nation. I fear we have become the "I Got Mine" generation who are content to watch others (the military) sacrifice while we grow larger and larger living off the fat of the land.
If Satan's Minions light up Manhattan the result will be chaos here on The Island. The stores will empty in hours, the bridges will close or be destroyed and the result will make Katrina seem a trip to Disney World. With three (3) bridges serving over 7 million Brooklyn, Queens, and Long Island residents the citizenry -- lacking food and water -- will turn on themselves and the savagery will be biblical.
It will be horrific.
And it could have been so very different if only...the politicians had been brave and said "we are not ready! We must plan! We must prepare! We must drill!" and if the citizenry had been willing to sacrifice.
Remember this my brothers: You only have ONE LEADER and there is only ONE PERSON who can save you: this is the person who is looking back at you in the mirror every single day of your life.
When the horror comes I CitizenQ will survive, or I will die with dignity trying to survive.
Q out.