"Surivial knives" coating?

idaho

idaho

Joined
May 5, 2005
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955
Busse, Rat, Tops, Ontario and many many other companies coat their "surivival" large blades with rough structured paint coating.

Is that powder paint? Wet paint? Some kind of xxx-cote product?

Can anyone point me exactly to a product that will give me a this black structured matte finish?
 
Cerakote. Several of the BF guys do this professionally. I think you can find him in The Exchange services section. A BF search for "cerakote" will also bring up the folks who do it.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Cerakote. Several of the BF guys do this professionally. I think you can find him in The Exchange services section. A BF search for "cerakote" will also bring up the folks who do it.
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Are you sure?
Ontario knife stands "powder coat"
I've also heard "wrinkle/crinkle coat" - but still don't know if powder or wet paint...
 
I don't think it's cerakote, for several reasons. First and foremost, you can see lots of posts where people chemically strip the coating off Busse knives. According to google searches, Cerakote does not respond to chemical stripping. Secondly, Cerakote is highly regarded, and I think if the companies were using it, they would say so.

I believe it is a powdercoat, which is available in a textured formulation (a.k.a. hammertone/wrinkle/crinkle). It is probably an epoxy powdercoat.

http://www.blademag.com/knifemaking/how-the-pros-coat-their-knife-blades

"Black Traction Coating is the proprietary name of the finish TOPS Knives uses on its blades through the services of James Bowen. “We use an epoxy hybrid base with polyester in it,” company President Mike Fuller said. “It is electrostatically applied in its dry powder form, and it goes on the blade between three and five thousandths-inch thickness. The knives are then put into an oven and baked at a little over 400 degrees Fahrenheit for about 17 minutes, depending on the thickness of the material. It’s not an ultra-smooth finish like some coatings have, and it enables the user to hold the blade for close work if necessary.”

Also - fix your signature link to http://melontools.com/ - not https! Nice work as always
 
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pretty sure Stacy was trying to point you in the right direction for the better option... powdercoating "usually" isn't as tough as cera/gun/.. kote type systems. and it's usually thicker so it increases drag when cutting... not trying to blow his horn, but most times Stacy's opinions are worth a listen.
 
rustyrazor said:
pretty sure Stacy was trying to point you in the right direction for the better option... powdercoating "usually" isn't as tough as cera/gun/.. kote type systems. and it's usually thicker so it increases drag when cutting... not trying to blow his horn, but most times Stacy's opinions are worth a listen.
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I guess you are right. And Stacy is right. But ceracote is not available for me at reasonable price point. Where as proper powder paint, which is good enough for even "premium" factory blades, is a possibility. Mostly because we are talking about coating 100 or more blades/hawks.
 
idaho said:
I guess you are right. And Stacy is right. But ceracote is not available for me at reasonable price point. Where as proper powder paint, which is good enough for even "premium" factory blades, is a possibility. Mostly because we are talking about coating 100 or more blades/hawks.
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It's not good, it's cheap and it has a crinkle finish that hides poor steel finishing.

But the thick crinkle finish is friction that fights cutting.


Try searching out the number of threads here of folks that buy them, then strip and resand smooth.
It's a common thing.
 
12345678910 said:
It's not good, it's cheap and it has a crinkle finish that hides poor steel finishing.

But the thick crinkle finish is friction that fights cutting.
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Like me, OP doesn't make cutting knives - we make throwing knives that are constantly slamming into wood, stone, and each other. The wrinkle/texture coat is great for this, because the high spots take most of the beating.
 
rustyrazor said:
pretty sure Stacy was trying to point you in the right direction for the better option... powdercoating "usually" isn't as tough as cera/gun/.. kote type systems. and it's usually thicker so it increases drag when cutting... not trying to blow his horn, but most times Stacy's opinions are worth a listen.
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Thanks Rusty. Yes, that is what I was saying - If you want a good coating, get Cerakote done.

IIRC, There are guys here who will do it at fairly reasonable price. I'll take a look and see if I can pull some up.



OK, back again.
Shotgunner just recently retired from doing Cerakote due to health issues. Razor-Edge Knives does it. His info and the website is in the Exchange Services Offered section. He charges $30 to $50 for a normal size blade (depending on the knife size and what needs to be done).
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...harpening-Regrind-Cerakote-Service-(pic-heavy!!)
 
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I just joined the forum and am trying to soak up as much information here as possible, but I do have quite a bit of experience spraying Cerakote. I have been using it on guns for years. It really is tough when you consider that it is a bake on finish, unless you use the high-heat stuff on suppressors. It is also a great finish for doing patterns. I have done several dozen complete guns and have yet to be disappointed. Maybe I'll use it on a knife after my grinder, metal, and belts get her in a week. I would imagine that it could be done pretty cheaply if you are doing quite a few blades at a time due to the most time is consumed setting up and mixing the hardener. Once the blades are degreased, alox blasted, and the paint is mixed, the spray would only take a minute or two per blade. You then have to bake them, but that is going on in the background while doing other things.
 
I have to speak from some basic level of experience here. I used a knife Razor Edge furnished for a passaround with his cerakote treatment. It's not anywhere like what you'd find from a good DLC coating from Ionbond but it's better than what you'd see from benchmade or cold steel on their black coated knives.

If your mind is set on coating a blade and Ionbond isn't an option, then cerakoting from Razor Edge isn't a bad choice. It was really finely done. No bumps or drips or anything, but it wore off pretty quickly and scratched easier. Personally I'd opt to sand the blade to a fine grit than to pay for an outsourced cerakote treatment, but that's just me. Maybe bead or sand blasting.

If you can get ahold of Ionbond and you use steel that can withstand an hour or two of time in a 500 degree F oven without negative effects, then I'd opt for a real DLC treatment.
 
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Again, we're talking about throwing knives that sell for ~$25 each in OP's case (see his website in his signature). Cerakote may seem 'reasonably priced' in the context of a $150 or $300 cutting knife, but it is simply out of the question here. No one is disputing the superiority or quality of Cerakote or better finishes.
 
He was asking in reference to survival knives, so I answered that way. For $25 throwers, I would spray paint with Rustoleum epoxy appliance paint. A can should do a dozen or more knives. It is pretty tough stuff, but for throwers, any finish will get worn and chipped.
 
It is for tactical hawks actually, but they still sell for less than 120$. So cerakote for 60$ is out of question.

Thanks for help. I got sample paint, base and filler from molcoatings - polyester filled wet paint, used for 'step area' on trucks, tanks and so on.
More rough than needed yet still very interesting. In worst case i will use it for handle coating in sceletonized neck knives.
 
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