Spyderco Surprised how easily my VG-10 blunted

Smaug

Smaug

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Jun 30, 2003
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I recall the recent thread in which the OP seemed a bit agitated that VG-10 has as high of a regard as it does. I even stood up for it a bit, however, after today, my regard for it has gone down a notch or two.

At the start of the day, my Centofante 3 was sharp. All I did was:

1) Pruned some bushes. Whittled through probably 20 branches less than 1/2" thick. This was mostly with the base of the blade.

2) Cut the ends off of some cord cobs against an cross-grain bamboo cutting board. Not through the cobs, just the husk and silk.

At the end of the day now, I was looking at the edge straight-on, and noticed I can see about the 3/4" of it near the tip. I checked it by running my thumbprint across it; sure enough, it's dull.

Now I know VG-10 isn't a premium steel, and that bamboo is hard, but I remember it and lesser steels like AUS-8 being better. This is about the performance I'd expect from 4116 or Swiss army knife with their 1.4110 Martensitic at Rc56. I thought I read that Spyderco's VG-10 was closer to Rc 60, or at any rate, a ton harder than bamboo.

I'm going to tune it up on the ol' Sharpmaker, but if it continues to let me down, that'll be about the last VG-10 knife I buy. (and I also know now why that guy was bemoaning VG-10)
 
That's kinda surprising. VG-10 has always performed pretty good for me. How's the edge geometry? Spyderco has a bad habit of letting some wonky edge bevels out the door. I could see it happening if the grind angle was too low.
 
Ozmose said:
That's kinda surprising. VG-10 has always performed pretty good for me. How's the edge geometry? Spyderco has a bad habit of letting some wonky edge bevels out the door. I could see it happening if the grind angle was too low.
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Looks pretty typical for most of it. (~18°) the 3/4" or so nearest the pivot is at a steeper angle than the rest. This one might've been made before factory grinding was done by robots.
 
It could be a number of things. Is it the factory edge? Maybe give it a few sharpens before you judge it...

It could be some grit or knot or something in the things you cut. Sometimes you just get some edge damage when you least expect it. Maybe you were putting some lateral pressure on one of the cuts you made etc. etc.

Long story short, I would suggest some more longer term use before you make judgements on how the edge holds up. I would be very surprised if Spyderco's VG10 doesn't hold up better than even the best AUS 8. Having said that AUS 8 should have better toughness, so edge impacts with grit or something hard might chip VG10 where AUS 8 might just get a small roll or no damage.
 
Been a while since I used vg10, but I remember liking it, with the Baskin Robbins 31 flavors of steel these days people tend to suffer from memory loss when you bring up vg10 (vg10, what's that?), but it's still a performer, I feel
 
20 12.7mm (0.5in) is quite a bit of cutting to be honest. I wouldn't expect something like S30V to stay sharp after that. There is a point that when the blades become dull, they don't feel different anymore. I seriously doubt that AUS-8 can do any better.
 
I have carried Enduras with VG-10 a lot, but not because of the steel. In my experience, VG-10 performs like a bargain steel such as 440C. But at least Spyderco does not charge premium prices for VG-10, do they?
 
I would be willing to bet that the bamboo cutting board had something to do with it. It never seemed to fail that I would have a flat spot in my edge after cutting on them. After a little bit of research I read that bamboo doesn't make the greatest cutting boards because there is a high silica count in bamboo.
 
I have the cold steel srk in San mai which is the same as VG10 right? I'm guessing I overpaid if the steel sucks.
 
There's always a possibility that some grit or grime was somehwere and it somehow got in contact with the edge and rubbed it dull.
 
When I first got my Delica, I rolled the edge cutting an apple on a cutting board. I was a bit disappointed, especially with the reputation VG-10 had. It improved with each sharpening and it's pretty good now. They use powered sharpeners at the factories on the thinnest part of the blade, so it's normal for an edge from any manufacturer to be burned when they grind the initial edge. You could have to remove 0.5mm of steel from the edge before it performs at its best. Be a lot better if they'd slow down a bit on the final sharpening.

VG-10 hasn't changed. The heat treatment may have, our expectations may have, but VG-10 hasn't changed.
 
I have had two knives with VG10 steel and was not impressed with either. The blades took a nice edge but it didn’t last at all! This was on a ladybug and a delica, both of with I sold. I picked up a bug in HAP40 steel, which has been terrific for me.
 
Smaug said:
A Centofante 3 is $88, which I do consider a premium price for a knife with VG-10 and plastic handles.
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I think $88 is towards the lower end of prices for non-Byrd Spydercos. It's not like paying $200 for a Benchmade AFO II with similar 154CM steel.

Let's do a crude calculation. Pete at Cedric & Ada got 73 rope cuts from VG-10. You cut about 20 branches less than 1/2" thick. Don't know what kind of branches or how much less than 1/2 inch. But I recently trimmed some 1/4 crepe myrtle branches. I'm guessing that each of those cuts would be about like 2 rope cuts in terms of edge wear. A 1/2 branch, at twice the diameter, would have 4 times the cross-sectional area, so that would be like at least 8 rope cuts. But the wood would be somewhat harder, so let's say 10 rope cuts. So each of 20 cuts would be worth somewhere between 2 and 10 rope cuts. Let's split the difference and say 6 rope cuts on average. So that's like a total of 120 rope cuts, which is way more than Pete got. But Pete stops when the blade won't slice paper cleanly. I assume that you went past the point of non-paper-slicing. So the equivalent of 120 rope cuts would be pretty much in line with Pete's results.

Pete got 40 to 90 Victorinox cuts, 67 to 140 cuts from 4116, and 67 cuts from Bos 420HC. Small sample sizes, quite a bit of variation. All in the same ballpark. I don't see anything surprising.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b_rNfdJnL9oyn-JoL9yUHhUmDLAP1hJ1dN_0q5G4tug/htmlview
 
Smaug said:
A Centofante 3 is $88, which I do consider a premium price for a knife with VG-10 and plastic handles.
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Most Spyderco models in VG-10 and FRN feel overpriced to me. Stock defense is that they are an American company or that those knives are made in Japan. (Of course, I think their Chinese stuff in 8Cr13Mov is a much worse value.) That's not to say that they are bad knives or anything. Heck, my Wharncliffe Dragonfly in VG-10 is an EDC MVP. It just feels a little overpriced at $70-something.

Part of that is Civivi, Sencut, Kizer, PF, etc. killing it in the budget zone. The first two, made by WE, run their 9Cr18Mov closer to 60HRC where edge retention rivals Spyderco's VG-10. Those knives cost like half as much with G-10, Micarta, or even wood handles. (Plus all the 154CM, 14C28N, N690, or analogous 10Cr15CoMov in between.) Meanwhile, the Spyderco Dragonfly in VG-10 and G-10 jumps up to $120! 😮

I feel like Spyderco gets more competitive over $100 with steels like BD1N, SPY27, S30V, etc.; but those prices have been going up too...

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VG10 "going blunt" sounds to me an issue specific to that brand/model/batch in question.
I have never had VG10 go blunt. Chip, yes, on a few knives,
VG10 in general is a good knife steel. No longer cutting edge, but still very workable.
 
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