Spyderco Surprised how easily my VG-10 blunted

The Centofante has a wicked thin hollow grind.
It’s not something I’d use for pruning 1/2” branches.

That said, I consider VG-10 somewhere between ”ok” and “marginal,” a step up from AUS=8, but not a leap forward. I base that on my VG-10 Delica compared to various AUS-8 and 8Cr knives I used to own.

My VG-10 Shun kitchen knives haven’t overwhelmed me with edge retention. It seems they largely keep working because of geometry (though admittedly they’re a huge step up from the crap Walmart kitchen knives are used to use).
 
Another Shepherd said:
I think $88 is towards the lower end of prices for non-Byrd Spydercos. It's not like paying $200 for a Benchmade AFO II with similar 154CM steel.

Let's do a crude calculation. Pete at Cedric & Ada got 73 rope cuts from VG-10. You cut about 20 branches less than 1/2" thick. Don't know what kind of branches or how much less than 1/2 inch. But I recently trimmed some 1/4 crepe myrtle branches. I'm guessing that each of those cuts would be about like 2 rope cuts in terms of edge wear. A 1/2 branch, at twice the diameter, would have 4 times the cross-sectional area, so that would be like at least 8 rope cuts. But the wood would be somewhat harder, so let's say 10 rope cuts. So each of 20 cuts would be worth somewhere between 2 and 10 rope cuts. Let's split the difference and say 6 rope cuts on average. So that's like a total of 120 rope cuts, which is way more than Pete got. But Pete stops when the blade won't slice paper cleanly. I assume that you went past the point of non-paper-slicing. So the equivalent of 120 rope cuts would be pretty much in line with Pete's results.

Pete got 40 to 90 Victorinox cuts, 67 to 140 cuts from 4116, and 67 cuts from Bos 420HC. Small sample sizes, quite a bit of variation. All in the same ballpark. I don't see anything surprising.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b_rNfdJnL9oyn-JoL9yUHhUmDLAP1hJ1dN_0q5G4tug/htmlview
Click to expand...
I have found 154cm to be much better than VG10.
 
One thing to add:
Price arguments aside, I think the Centofante is intended to fill a “budget gentleman’s EDC” niche in the Spyderco lineup, with a relatively light use intent.

I don’t have a conceptual problem with VG-10 in that role, and I’ll probably add a Centofante to round out my cart next time it’s needed.

Of course my opinion could change after I own and start using the knife.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DMG
I have never found VG-10 to knock my socks off in a plain edge version of the steel. It's good, but even when it was premium I appreciated it more for the stainless qualities.

I have an Endura 4 in white that was a spirit run nearly 20 years ago. Nice knife. Gets sharp. Gets dull. I keep the edge pretty well convexed to keep damage down to a minimum. I too have a couple of Shun kitchen knives that seem to do well enough. Easy to dull the VG-10 edge, but they have such a thin profile that is to be both expected and easily repaired. Plus it makes them better cutters than thick edged war clubs.

For me, the VG-10 I prefer is of the serrated edge variety. I think Spyderco does a good job of squeezing what you can out of the steel. Pairing that with a serrated edge, and you have a decent folding steak knife that will hold up to abuse well enough and be easy enough to repair when it gets dull.

If I'm going with a plain edge, there are several other steels I'll pick over VG-10. I really like Cruwear and Elmax. Magnacut is next on my list to get. However, VG-10 has become my ripper steel of choice. It works well for a work knife and the stainless properties and behavior of the steel when serrated make it fine for a self defense knife.

Beyond that, I prefer other steels.
 
I have three VG10 Spydies and surprisingly the UKPK is the one that holds it's edge best.
It's also my most used folder, cutting boxes and preparing food is daily work.
I touched up the edge maybe 5-6 times, with a simple ceramic rod and it comes back scary sharp easily...

The Delica (Saber ground) and Endela are way thicker behind the edge and I had to resharpen them more often after less usage.
 
VG-10's strength may not lie in how good of an edge it holds, it's a decent edge holder that gets CRAZY sharp without an immense amount of effort. My favorite steels tend to be in the BD1N, 14C28N, and VG-10 range, just because they are so dang easy to touch up and keep hair curling sharp. Premium steels tend to get a working edge that lasts quite a while, but I like to sharpen and prefer a CRAZY edge on my daily carry. There's no question there's better steel out there than VG-10 these days, but I have no issue with any of the mid range steels.

If you're looking for a superlative steel, you'll definitely be disappointed. This is a more balanced steel.
 
MarkN86 said:
VG-10's strength may not lie in how good of an edge it holds, it's a decent edge holder that gets CRAZY sharp without an immense amount of effort. My favorite steels tend to be in the BD1N, 14C28N, and VG-10 range, just because they are so dang easy to touch up and keep hair curling sharp. Premium steels tend to get a working edge that lasts quite a while, but I like to sharpen and prefer a CRAZY edge on my daily carry. There's no question there's better steel out there than VG-10 these days, but I have no issue with any of the mid range steels.

If you're looking for a superlative steel, you'll definitely be disappointed. This is a more balanced steel.
Click to expand...
Well, from cutting against that bamboo cutting board it is visibly rolled over at the tip; not even a working edge there, any more.

It did touch up quickly though, as you said. Probably 5 strokes on each side with the medium and fine ceramic rods on the Sharpmaker.
 
I've always found the Ontario rat's AUS 8 to be miles ahead of any vg10 I have on my sapyderco's, specifically when it comes to breaking down carboard it holds an edge much longer than vg10.
 
DMG said:
I have found 154cm to be much better than VG10.
Click to expand...
Larrin rates VG-10, 154CM, and 440C the same for edge retention, with VG-10 half a point better for toughness. I would rate them the same except that I would put 154CM a point lower than VG-10 for edge retention. But that is Benchmade 154CM. I do not have any Spyderco 154CM or Benchmade VG-10. So the heat treatments may not be comparable. The Benchmade bevel angles are slightly narrower than Spyderco, which should give a slight advantage to Benchmade.

I have quit buying Benchmade 154CM. I still get Spyderco VG-10 from time to time.
 
Smaug said:
Well, from cutting against that bamboo cutting board it is visibly rolled over at the tip; not even a working edge there, any more.

It did touch up quickly though, as you said. Probably 5 strokes on each side with the medium and fine ceramic rods on the Sharpmaker.
Click to expand...
Bamboo cutting boards are terrible on knife edges, regardless of the steel. If you are using one, I'd suggest you replace it with any good wood one,
Bamboo is not "wood" as it is a Grass, not a Tree. In order to turn it into a cutting board it requires adhesives, which in some cases may be or may turn even harder than the bamboo. Additionally, as a grass, Bamboo contains Silica which is an abrasive on steel.
Throughout Asia Bamboo is used for many things due to it's lightness, hardness and durability. But nobody uses for cutting boards.
They are the invention of a California company in the 1980s who thought they looked "Oriental" and would sell. Which they did.
 
ms3902 said:
I would be willing to bet that the bamboo cutting board had something to do with it. It never seemed to fail that I would have a flat spot in my edge after cutting on them. After a little bit of research I read that bamboo doesn't make the greatest cutting boards because there is a high silica count in bamboo.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I split pills on a wooden table that isn't bamboo and it only takes about 10 pills to begin noticeable dulling and thats D2 at 62hrc.

Edge is still perfectly sharp and functional but I think a lot of people compare a working sharp edge vs a hair popping sharp edge, assuming the latter should be the norm when it isn't.
 
Last edited:
I never liked VG10's edge retention. I remember being young before I knew how to reprofile an edge on my own and only had a basic Sharpmaker. VG got dull every single day if I used it for any extended cutting at all. And it also blunted to the point where I could no longer touch the edge up on the Sharpmaker after like a week of daily use. People torched me for criticizing the steel back then, but I still think I was right that the steel isn't that great at all. S30V was a game changer, and I have been happy with how blade steels have performed since it became the standard.
 
Smaug said:
I recall the recent thread in which the OP seemed a bit agitated that VG-10 has as high of a regard as it does. I even stood up for it a bit, however, after today, my regard for it has gone down a notch or two.

At the start of the day, my Centofante 3 was sharp. All I did was:

1) Pruned some bushes. Whittled through probably 20 branches less than 1/2" thick. This was mostly with the base of the blade.

2) Cut the ends off of some cord cobs against an cross-grain bamboo cutting board. Not through the cobs, just the husk and silk.

At the end of the day now, I was looking at the edge straight-on, and noticed I can see about the 3/4" of it near the tip. I checked it by running my thumbprint across it; sure enough, it's dull.

Now I know VG-10 isn't a premium steel, and that bamboo is hard, but I remember it and lesser steels like AUS-8 being better. This is about the performance I'd expect from 4116 or Swiss army knife with their 1.4110 Martensitic at Rc56. I thought I read that Spyderco's VG-10 was closer to Rc 60, or at any rate, a ton harder than bamboo.

I'm going to tune it up on the ol' Sharpmaker, but if it continues to let me down, that'll be about the last VG-10 knife I buy. (and I also know now why that guy was bemoaning VG-10)
Click to expand...
So are you off the VG10 bandwagon?
 
KenHash said:
Bamboo cutting boards are terrible on knife edges, regardless of the steel. If you are using one, I'd suggest you replace it with any good wood one,
Bamboo is not "wood" as it is a Grass, not a Tree. In order to turn it into a cutting board it requires adhesives, which in some cases may be or may turn even harder than the bamboo. Additionally, as a grass, Bamboo contains Silica which is an abrasive on steel.
Throughout Asia Bamboo is used for many things due to it's lightness, hardness and durability. But nobody uses for cutting boards.
They are the invention of a California company in the 1980s who thought they looked "Oriental" and would sell. Which they did.
Click to expand...
So what would you recommend specifically? I use an unknown wood cut board that I am sure has not done well for my sg2 kitchen knives than other better cutting boards though my kitchen knives seem to hold up well.
 
sharp_edge said:
So what would you recommend specifically? I use an unknown wood cut board that I am sure has not done well for my sg2 kitchen knives than other better cutting boards though my kitchen knives seem to hold up well.
Click to expand...
I personally use a Japanese Hinoki board as do many others. But any good Western wood board will do.
I also advise against plastic boards but not as adamantly as bamboo.
Just google Hinoki (Cypress) cutting boards.
 
Using a Centofante with it's super thin blade to cut branches sounds to me like the wrong tool for the job.
Comparing VG-10 to HAP-40 seems pretty extreme. Carbides galore including significant levels of Tungsten, Molybdenum, and Vanadium carbides.
Cutting tests using blades with different profiles doesn't work well. Blade geometry has way more effect on the results than the blade alloy does.

VG-10 is a tad better than 440C in edge retention. (Way better than 4116). It has Chromium carbides, but no Vanadium carbides. PM steels with vanadium carbides blow it out of the water. D2 blows it out of the water because D2 also contains Vanadium carbides, and it can be heat treated to a much higher hardness.
 
D2 also has a large amount of carbon. That much carbon by itself can push the hardness quite high. I believe that it is one of the few 1.5% carbon steels in ingot that can be use for cutlery, which in itself a feat because not even plain 1.5% carbon steel is stable enough to worth make knife. That along with like 4 other alloying elements in D2 makes it superior in cutting. Even though called "semi stainless"… no industrial application will use it or call it stainless at all.

Comparing stainless to high wear resistance steel is apple to orange pretty much. HAP-40 is basically Japanese M4 HS steel, it is not even close to be comparable.

Like some other say, OP might use the wrong tool for the job. Hollow grind is better for slicing, but dull faster because it has less material at the edge. Full flat is better for general cutting purpose. Blade geometry is as important as the steel.

About the value, I have a Fox Italy M390 knife for 100$… would it mean all of other knife and steel of lesser quality, like S35V, should only be sold at 50$ (half cutting performance)... That's really not how thing works labor cost is a thing.
 
MarkN86 said:
When I first got my Delica, I rolled the edge cutting an apple on a cutting board. I was a bit disappointed, especially with the reputation VG-10 had. It improved with each sharpening and it's pretty good now. They use powered sharpeners at the factories on the thinnest part of the blade, so it's normal for an edge from any manufacturer to be burned when they grind the initial edge. You could have to remove 0.5mm of steel from the edge before it performs at its best. Be a lot better if they'd slow down a bit on the final sharpening.

VG-10 hasn't changed. The heat treatment may have, our expectations may have, but VG-10 hasn't changed.
Click to expand...
That's useful info. Today I wrote to Spyderco in fact. Regarding my new lil' native in CruWear, that similarly on cutting apples and such seems to have a rolled edge and a little dent. Very odd I thought. Interestingly I never had that problem on my VG-10 Delica nor Dragonfly 2.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top