Survey - The classic hollow handled survival knife

[Cougar Allen]

Have you tried cutting aluminum with those saw teeth on the back? Have you compared it to cutting with the edge?

When the search function gets fixed you'll be able to find an informative discussion of saw teeth on knives -- I think the thread title is "Stupid Ideas." We concluded they're not entirely stupid and they do have a more or less rational purpose -- but it's not cutting aluminum; it's notching sticks for lashing.

If paracord wrap is too thick try mason's cord (available at hardware stores). I like to wrap in continuous half hitches so the knots form a spiral pattern and then I paint it black with poster paint (mason's cord doesn't come in black ... anyway the paint glues it on, too).

I've never had a knife rust while I was using it. It's only when I put one away for a few weeks or more that it rusts. I think it's one of those things like "a watched pot never boils" -- a knife you're using never rusts. Of course I understand the difference between rust and patina....

-Cougar Allen :{)

 

[MNH]

Snickersnee,

I'm not sure whether you think the knike belongs under my coat or not from your post.

My CR is an Aviator, which is about the smallest knife in the series. I know alot more about winter coats than I do about air conditioners, and every one I own that I would wear into the woods in the winter is long enough cover to 1/2way between my waist and my knees. Big, lose, lots of room inside with several layers under it.

That is at least the way most people do it up in "The Great North Woods".

 

[Snickersnee]

Cougar, you've hit on something I've wondered about for a long time. Why in the Sam Hell do things tend to stay in more or less good shape while a human is actualy using them, and then start to fall apart with disuse? It's weird. Maintainence and such explains it partialy, but not in all situations. It's almost like our life-energy sustains them or something. Really odd.

MNH, the under-the-coat trick is a great idea! I'm 100% behind it! I can hide my Project 1 under my jacket no problem, though that's just for concealment. The point is, the cold weather thing isn't a big problem if you know how to deal with it.

I figured out why the knife doesn't heat up too much when you're wearing it; Odds are your body will shield it from direct sun a good part of the time, and the horizontal postion presents a slim profile to the sun's rays. Ambient temperature just isn't enough to heat it up unduly on it's own. And the sheath itself, wether kydex or leather, is a poor conductor of heat. I always figured that the heat thing wouldn't be a problem, the knife was designed by a guy who had a knife fail to meet his expectations whilst in a desert.

You know, I think I'm gonna do a write-up on the Project 1 in the reviews forums in the next couple days.

After almost five hours inside a silver car with dark grey interior with the Florida sun beating down on it, the Project was not too hot to handle. A little warm, but not uncomfortable. Since I had already determined that direct sun is what heats it up, I put it up on the seat so it would be in a hot part of the car, but not exposed to the direct sunlight. The knife's in the freezer right now.

 

[Les Robertson]

Cougar,

First, let me state that in my opinion, serrated blades are a waste.

As for not being able to cut aluminum, I direct your attention to the back edge of the Robert Parrish Hollow Handle Survival knife. When did you test this knife?

As for other serrations being used for "notching" why wouldnt the primary edge be able to do that?

The best serrations I ever saw on a knife were on the Parrish. The second best can be found on a Swiss Army Knife. The only production knife I carried at all times in the field. The Champion fit great in the pockets on the front of nylon sheaths.

The idea about the Mason cord is a good one.

------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

 

[Les Robertson]

Snickers,

Yes, all steel will rust. My point is that most people do not want their blades to rust, discolor or scratch. The primary purpose behind the A-2 Reeve knives being Kal-Guarded is as a rust prevention measure. So that is my point.

As for putting a knife in a car, it's not the same. Now if you were to sit in that car and use the knife, that might be a different story.

Dont bother with the Freezer, it only gets down to 10 degrees. This will not replicate -30.

You sound as if your the casual outdoorsman. You get to leave everything at the camp site.

Try putting on 100 pound ruck sack and wearing your Reeve under your shirt. You might find this to be a little uncomfortable after the first few minutes.

Snickers, your experience is at best limited to your nearby surroundings. This gives you only a one sided opinion. As I stated before as long as the knife fits your needs that is all that matters.

By the way, your not an A**Hole. Your just a person with limited experience (through no fault of your own) who strongly stands by his narrow in focus opinions.

That is ok, most of us perceive the world around us from this point of view. I would challange you to go to Death Valley for a day or up to Alaska or Canada in winter and try using the knife. It will definetly open your eyes as to what works and what doesnt under harsh conditions.

While I didnt consider myself lucky at the time to be operating in these climates. In retrospect it did give me a view of using knives that I would have been able to have gained anywhere else.



------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

 

[Jeff Clark]

Has anyone personally had trouble with a knife they were carrying getting too hot? It would seem like you would have to be standing or sitting in fierce direct sun with your body turned to expose the knife for a long period of time.

Snickersnee is not located in an area that would give you the worst solar heating effects. He is in a humid area at a low altitude (sure sounds like sea level). The solar radiation will be attenuated by both the thickness of the atmosphere and the water content of the air. The air will hold more heat because of the humidity and your body won't be able to cool itself via sweat evaporation, but the absolute surface temperature of objects won't rival higher and dryer climates. I've been in high deserts like the Mojave in California and up at 10,000 feet in the Rockies and haven't been burned by a knife handle. Metal on your hat gets real hot, and your canteen gets warm, but smaller belt items usually get some shade. I would expect the problem to come from marching in a very straight line across a desert in the middle of the day. You generally try and avoid marching in the direct noon-day sun in the desert. It cooks your brain.

 

[RUDY]

Mr. Robertson,
I try not to and don't think I ever have made the claim of one knife being the best. Mainly, becasue I don't have the experience to. I also try not to off to much info on stuff I haven't actually tested. I don't think the Reeve is the best but I would be willing to bet that it would meet my needs if not surpass them. If I ever do get around to testing it I may change my mind.

Your being an Infantryman and so uncapable of being to pamper your blades was what I was referring to. I myself live a fairly casual lifestlye and so can pamper my blades.

Mr. Stamp,
Putting the paracord on my blade is not really something I would do to improve its comfort. I would just wear gloves to do that. Mainly I would put the cord on as something to use in a survival situation (someth9ing that is laughable considering my lifestlye but it gives me something to do). I don't really like to have to modify my blades either but unless I have all my blades custom made it will probably be something I will have to continue to do and even if I did have them custom made some of my requirements still probably couldn't be met by the maker.

thanks and take care
collin

 

[Snickersnee]

Les my man, you are so lost!

I don't know what sort of ultimate outdoor adventurer God you think you are, but you have absolutely no clue as to who I am, what I do, and where I've been!

I reference most things to Florida, because this is where I live, and honestly where I've spent most of my time. It makes sense to me to equate things to a place I actualy am instead of some place I once was or would like to be. Listing exotic and mysterious locals is in the realm of the likes of the Jerry Peterson's and similar tactical wonders of the world who try to impress people with astounding, and usualy unfounded, credentials rather than letting their words speak for themselves. It feeds the wannabe's need for sensationalism, but no more.

But to say that Florida is the extent of my experience, buddy you are dead wrong!

I have done time in damn near every environment in N. America, and that pretty much means every type of general environment there is. Sure, in other countries the plants and animals will be different species. Big deal. Same sh*t, different day.

On top of that, I have several months in New Zealand and Australia.

I dislike the cold, so I don't seek out cold climates. I have lived through winters in temperatures that were below freezing, f***ing hated the experience, and wouldn't do it on purpose. Some people hate heat too.

Leaving a hundred pounds of gear at camp? Uh, I can't think of a single situation in which I ever felt it neccesary to pack that much crap. What do you do? Pack in all your food and water and a gasoline generator and a t.v.? The most junk I ever carry is when I go somewhere cold, then a big sleeping bag is the only specialized gear I need that adds any apreciable weight at all. My typical kit for survival for indefinate periods of time in tropical and temperate climates hovers around 20 and 30 pounds, including the clothes that I'm wearing), and how many books I want to bring to read. Besides, I've never stayed at a campground in my life.

You're right though, I am pretty casual about survival. I find it a lot easier to live somewhere than to survive somewhere. I pretty much walk into a place like I've lived there all my life. There isn't any legitimate reason why survival should be a strugle at all. You will find that the primitive indigenous peoples populating unsettled areas take the same aproach pretty much. Humans are pretty adaptable. We can pretty much live anywhere we can go. That's why they call enivironments eccosystems. Because there's a system in place that you can take all you need from without undue fuss and fret.

Maybe you just want it to sound like it's a big bad world out there that takes a real Superman to survive in to boost your ego, or sales, you do sell stuff, right? I ain't about to be talked down to by some joker just because he has a big name. You ain't noth'n but a man, you put your pants on one leg at a time just like me.

I have nothing to prove to you or anybody else. I know myself, that's all I need. I offer my insight and experience in my own abrasive way, take it or leave it.

But don't come around here with self-righteous claims that you have a monopoly on living off the land and condescending comments about someone you have never met, don't know, have never spent any time with whatsoever, and haven't even had a meaningful corespondence with.

I ain't gonna hold a grudge against you, not my way. As far as I'm concerned, I've said my peace and am perfectly willing to engage in inteligent and meaningful conversations with you in the future, but I ain't gonna tolerate being talked to like some kinda helpless pup.

 

[not2sharp]

Aren't we asking an awful lot from a piece of metal. Many of you are certainly far more experienced in extreme situations than I am. But, usually when I am camping or hiking, in the office, or even at home; I depend on the #1 tool (in between the ears) to come up with the appropriate tactic for the environment.

I am not implying that anyone is weak in their #1, on the contrary there is more than ample evidence in the informative discussion above to conclude the opposite. What I am saying is that the reason we have been successful in using knives and other tools is that we have had the experience and common sense to adapt ourselves to the situation.

Picking up a piece of metal that has been exposed to the environment under extreme environmental conditions with bare hands is something I hope to avoid - at any rate it will serve as a neat wakeup call to stop what ever bone-headed thing I was up to.

What would I be doing walking around in -30F without gloves, your hands would be numbed to uselessness withing minutes and serious frostbite would start to set in after a few more minutes. Does it matter what type of handle configuration is on your knife. Whether wrap in cord or rubber, handled in micarta, stag, or wood; I don't think I could use a knife without comming into contact with an exposed piece of metal in the tang, butt, guard, or blade.

What is your knife doing exposed to the environment in the first place - my knives tend to stay close to my person - and if its that hot out there its probably time to get my knife and my a** under some shade.

 

[Snickersnee]

Back on subject, if you acknowledge that all steel rusts, what's the problem? At best you've said people don't want knives to rust.

I can accomedate -30 farenheit, or almost. I've arranged to be allowed to screw around with the deep freeze at the corner grocery store. They keep it at -25 or so.

As to the heat of the inside of a car, what are we talking about here? Hot knife handles or using a knife when it's hot outside?

A hot knife handle might raise discomfort in holding a knife, thus perhaps making using it a bit more uncomfortable. Using a knife when it's hot outside means you'll sweat. Whoopty-do.

Or maybe you're saying you hang out in places that routinely reach 150 degrees farenheit? Or use knives in the cramped interior of a hot car? I really fail to see how this has any bearing. A Project will handle as well as any other similar sized knife in cramped, hot quarters.

By the way, Eskimos carry crap under their coats to keep it warm. In fact, that's a classic way for them to melt snow so they can drink it without lowering their core temperature. But we'll just deal with a backpack for now.

Basicaly it has two shoulder straps, and since you carry everything but the kitchen sink when you go out, you probably use one of those framed-jobs with the built-in cumberbund.

So you have some straps on your shouders, a big thing on your back, and something around your waist. I see two places to stick the knife already. One on a cord around your neck. Another on a cord around your belt with the knife inside your pants/pocket. Or even just an inside-the-pants sheath like those concealment rigs.

Again, things become possible when you examine the situation and look for solutions to problems. Basic survival concepts.

Not2Sharp, you're a good bit sharper than your name would have one think. Very prudent observations. You'd make a fine outdoorsman.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Snickersnee :

Les, A2 will rust. 440C will rust. What's your point

One rusts faster - implying that one would corrode at a rate that would impair function I would assume. This does not mean gross structural damage but edge retention issues mainly. I would wonder about eating rust though as I would not want to prepare food with a corroded blade.


You don't need extended baths in seawater to get rusting to the extent of pitting on unprotected non-stainless blades. 5160, Carbon V, O1, and others need to be maintained on a regular basis with oil or some other protectant to be kept free of surface rust. Unprotected, left damp overnight or even in a corrosive normal enviroment can induce rust on such materials. You can read similar reports pretty much constantly. This was one of the primary reasons Mission has for going with Ti.
Corrosion is even one of the big complaints about ATS-34, which is a fair bit more rust resistant than A2. If its not a problem for you, fine, it is with a lot of people.

As for the temperature thing. The getting hot part doesn't bother me because if its hot enough so that the knife handle would be oncomfortable, then I would be long past my tolerance point anyway. The cold one is though. Keeping it under your coat it nice and all, but sooner or later you are going to have to use it. And unless you keep putting it back inside your coat instead of laying it down, sticking it in something, it will get cold very fast and get very comfortable. Unless of course Reeve has somehow changed the heat conduction properties of A2.

Why in the Sam Hell do things tend to stay in more or less good shape while a human is actualy using them, and then start to fall apart with disuse

Specific to knives and rusting, probably because the corroding inroads are wore off with continuous use and its only when you put them down that it can develop.

Les :

As for other serrations being used for "notching" why wouldnt the primary edge be able to do that?

Its harder that way. It takes some skill. Its far easier to saw back and forth than to scallop out a notch with a straight edge.

Do you have a picture of the Parrish serration pattern, or could you describe how it performed differently that set it apart from the others.

serrated blades are a waste.

I wouldn't go exactly that far, I would want them for some things but they are fairly specific purposes. For general use I would prefer a straight edge though.

I would challange you to go to Death Valley for a day or up to Alaska or Canada in winter and try using the knife.

Winter is not really necessary. We get snow and it dips under zero in the summer.

Jeff :

Has anyone personally had trouble with a knife they were carrying getting too hot?

No, but metal parts have become too cold.

Collin :

Putting the paracord on my blade is not really something I would do to improve its comfort. I would just wear gloves to do that.

Wearing gloves is not an option for me, I need the tactile abilities of my fingers/palm for my knife work. Without this sensation ther is too much danger I would injure myself. I could of course just change technique but then I would be performing at a sub-optimal level.

Snickersnee :

There isn't any legitimate reason why survival should be a strugle at all.

The fact that so many people die is a good indicator that there may be some difficulty involved. If out door living is a large part of your lifestyle then of course you are going to find it easy as if you do anything long enough it becomes natural after awhile.

You will find that the primitive indigenous peoples populating unsettled areas take the same aproach pretty much

Of course, that is where they grew up. Drop them off in a different enviroment and see how they do.


-Cliff

 

[Cliff Stamp]

not2sharp :

What would I be doing walking around in -30F without gloves

There are things that are difficult to do with gloves on and this forces people to actually work in sub zero weather without hand protection. It is not uncommon.

your hands would be numbed to uselessness withing minutes and serious frostbite would start to set in after a few more minutes.

Which is why you don't keep your gloves off. You cycle - take a break - work - take a break - work. Keep changing never allowing your hands to dissipate too much heat.

The problem with metals is that because of thir extreme conductivity they will reach an equilibrium with the surrounding enviroment very quickly. Then when you come incontact with them you become part of the enviroment and act as a heat sink really quickly. The time that it takes for cold metals to do damage to you is orders of magnitude lower than the air which conducts heat really lousy.

Its not a problem with something that is in contact with your body as that prevents extreme changes in temperature. I can go out at -30 or below with my glasses on and the metal never gets cold enough to stick to my face. However if I were to lay them down and put them back on it would be different. Same thing is if I was to try and pick something metallic up that I had layed down.

If you are working with tools in such cold enviroments then you have to take great care to make sure that metal parts will not come into contact with your skin. This usually involves wrapping/taping them. You also have to be really careful to inspect this on a regular basis. It does not take much exposed metal to be a problem.

-Cliff

 

[Les Robertson]

Snickers:

You are so lost. Your right I dont know about your back ground, as you have not told us anything about it. Other than little day trips around Florida.

The Gear I carried was 1)issued by the US Army (therefore not the most current gear available). 2)It was in our operations order to carry it. Not to have it on your body somewhere could result in legal action being taken against you.

The fact you do not know this, tells me you were never in the military.

Survial God,no. A knife enthusiast who has opereated in some of the harshest environments the planet has to offer, yes.

Do I use my knowledge to help me sell knives, no. Do I use my knowledge to help my clients get the knife that will best fill their needs, yes.

So take out your compass, shoot a backwards azimuth, find your 8 digit grid, then get a back up coordinate with your GSP. This will help you find your way.



------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

 

[Les Robertson]

Cliff,

The serrations on the parrish knife was three rows with the middle row going the opposite way of the other 2. They appear to have been machined as opposed to being put in with a file.

They cut Aircraft aluminum. I tested this on some helicopter wreckage.

As for notching, I always did it with primary edge. I guess you practice doing something one way for so long, it becomes second nature.



------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

 

[Snickersnee]

I woner how many of these reports of rusting of carbon steel blades are reality and not speculation. As I said, I reside in an environment with high levels of salt in the air. I don't coat with oil, tough cloth, waxes or anythig like that. I rinse with clean water and wipe the goop off. That's it. No rust.

Carbon steels aren't nearly as high maintainence as you'd think they are from what you hear. I think this is the outgrowth of the "tactical" movement. A lot of guys who don't really do much going around trying to say what is or what isn't based less on real world experience and observation, and more on speculation and unrealistic tests. Of course, all these guys are Special Ed Seal Rangers or something, with 100 years of combat experience and have killed at least 4 men in brutal hand to had combat, so they must know what they're talking about.

The thing is, we've been using carbon steels for over 1,000 years. We've got a lot of documented evidence that says that rust isn't a big deal. About the worst you could expect is surface oxidation.

Food preparation with such an oxidized blade is no biggy at all. It's the same thing as cooking in a cast iron skillet. If anything, you'll get a little more iron in your diet. But not nearly as much as you get from cast iron cookware, as your knife isn't going to be as hot or in contact with the food for as long.

Now, I've been catching some flak recently for relating things to my real-world environment of Florida from people who are speculating about hostile and extreme environments they once visited. Yeah, it doesn't get as hot and dry here as in the Mojave desert. It doesn't get as cold and dry here as in Antartica. But one thing that you can't deny, as it is scientificaly documneted, is that Florida has a pretty corosive environment, especialy along the coasts. Hot, humid, with a lot of salt in the air. If rusting was such a big problem, I would know. Especialy considering that I've used carbon steel exclusively in my fixed blades all my life.

If rust isn't a big problem here, it sure ain't gonna be a big problem in the arid conditions of the Southernmost continent or the North Pole, and certainly not in the desert.

The thing about carbon steels losing an edge over time do to micro-oxidation is true. If you actualy use a knife so infrequently that this actualy has time to set in, you've got bigger concerns. In fact, the only time this has ever been a factor is after spear fishing or digging for crustaceans in salt water. Salt water will also take the edge off stainless steels. Ask any scuba diver you know how sharp his knife is after a couple hours in the ocean. In fact, it's not uncommon for there to be splotches of rust on uncoated stainless steels.

If you want to knock carbon steels, you'll have to find more potent ammo.

Perhaps the most valid point that's been raised here, or actualy has been alluded to, is that metal handles are not optimaly suited to extreme cold weather. However, this includes any knife with a sandwich tang or metal handgaurd. You're pretty much looking at a full plastic handle like on a Mad Dog or something.

So really, all my arguement has been is that you can make it work, even if it's not really the best suited for this aplication.

However, I do have a problem with the idea that it's too much trouble to put the knife back in it's sheath in between use. In any environment this is poor form. Too easy for the knife to get lost or someone to get hurt on it. When you are shooting a pistol, do you just lay it down on the ground and go take a leak? Anyway which way you cut it, the proper method for handling this tool in that environment is tuck it in somewhere warm when you're not using it. It's just hte right way to use it, akin to mixing the oil in with the gas in a two-stroke engine. Or not leaving guns lying around when not in use.

Now, if you're talking long-term use in a cold environment, any material is going to normalize to the ambient temperature. You could argue that since metal is a good conducter, it was aggrevate the condition, and you would be right. But picking up anything that's -30degrees is going to do wonders for your hand. People wear work gloves in warm environments all the time to protect their hands. You'd think this would be good policy in an environment that is so cold it can actualy kill your fingers, hands, and you.

If city people die whilst in the wilderness, it's for the same reason wilderness people die in cities. They didn't take the time to figure out what it is they're doing, and do it right. A stupid mistake is a stupid mistake no matter where you are. Take the time and make sure you know what it is you're doing, and you'll find you will have drasticaly fewer problems.

By the way Les, if you would like to wire me the money to fund an expedition to the desert or tundra of your choice, and a cameraman to document my experience, I am more than willing to take you up on your chalenge. If you are worried about my safety, you can hire a guide you have confidence in with orders not to interfere until my life is on the line. My e-mail address is on my profile, and is the best way to get in touch with me. Don't chalenge someone unless you're sure they won't take you up on the offer.

 

[James Mattis]

I rise to a point of order.

In Robert's Rules of Order on the conduct of organization meetings, there is a chapter on decorum, where, among other sage advice, he says that speakers should address the assembly or the chair, and not each other, lest debate over issues become a conflict of personalities.

We have a few people here who have a bunch more experience than I have had in hard outdoor knife work, and differences of opinion on the merits of Chris Reeve's design. They are valuable contributors to this and other discussions, so seeing a personality conflict develop is distressing. I'd like to read about the knives and their uses.


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Snickersnee :

I woner how many of these reports of rusting of carbon steel blades are reality and not speculation

The only ones I am referring to are first hand accounts.

I don't coat with oil, tough cloth, waxes or anythig like that. I rinse with clean water and wipe the goop off. That's it. No rust.

Fine that works for you. It does not for me. If I did that my blades would rust. It does not take much effort to keep them from rusting but they do require regular application of Marine Tuf-Cloth (or oil but the cloth is just easier).

The thing about carbon steels losing an edge over time do to micro-oxidation is true. If you actualy use a knife so infrequently that this actualy has time to set in, you've got bigger concerns.

Assuming you are not using you knife in your sleep, that is probably time enough. As for continuous use and rusting. MPS who does post here on occasion, likes stainless for his filleting knives because of the problems with edge retention on high-carbons. Personally its not a problem with me because I don't do a lot of work in extended corrosive situations and I have no problems with regular maintaince.

In fact, it's not uncommon for there to be splotches of rust on uncoated stainless steels.

Of course all steels can rust. However its the difference in resistance that is important. Some people need different levels.

When you are shooting a pistol, do you just lay it down on the ground and go take a leak?

Different thing. When using a knife I am often doing a series of tasks that require two hands after some blade work. Generally I just stick the knife in something within arms reach or lay it down if there is something waist height or similar close by. I don't like to put it back in the sheath because it would need to be cleaned and I don't want to have to constantly be at that. If the sheath was under my clothes in the winter this would be even more of a problem as I assume I would have to expose myself unduely to the elements in the process of drawing and sheathing the knife.

But picking up anything that's -30degrees is going to do wonders for your hand.

It depends on the conductivity. The heat has to leave the material and get to you. My face can easily be exposed to the air at -30 for extended periods of time and it suffers no damage. Wood and other similar insulators can be handled at very cold temperatures.

Liquid nitrogen does something similar. Even though it is much colder than any enviroment you would ever be exposed to, I can pour it on my hands with no ill effect. It will not remain in contact long enough to transfer the heat out of my skin. Don't try this with super cooled ethanol gel though. Even though its much hotter than the liquid N2 it will do serious damage to your skin.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 14 July 1999).]

 

[Snickersnee]

Liquid nitrogen is some freaky stuff! It's real cold, but evaporates quite fast. You can throw a bucket of it at somebody and it will evaprate before it even hits them just from their body heat, so I'm told.

Back on topic, I just have a hard time understanding how things can be so much different for me than everybody else when it comes to rust, especialy since I'm in a particularly corrosive environment. I'm not calling you a liar, it just strikes me as odd.

I'd agree with stainless for a fillet knife. A fillet knife tends to get left in a tackle box quite a bit, and their flexibility makes them a pain in the butt to sharpen.

As to the period of time while you sleep being long enough to lose an edge, yeah, if your knife and sheath is wet. Practical experiment has proven that stainless steels fair no better. There is probably a point at which a carbon steel blade has lost more edge than a stainless one, but the stainless catches up by the time you wake up, assuming the standard eight hours of sleep. I prefer ten when I can get it, but I only need about two hours to be functional for long periods. The thing is, edges are thin, therefore it doesn't take long for edge-destroying corrosion to set in, irregardless of steel type.

My face tends to get into pretty bad shape exposed to temperatures that are just below freezing, never mind zero. Maybe that's why I frigg'n hate the cold. I should drink anitfreeze or something. Actualy, isn't that what whiskey's for? I think that's the stuff that if you get lost in a mountain, a dog will come up and give you.

By the way, what's up with the dog? I mean, I've been up in the mountains with snow pouring down and no permanent shelter around, and pretty damn cold, but that dog never showed up.

I wouldn't argue that steel is the best handle material to hold onto bare handed in artic climates, not by far. What I am saying is that you can work around it. Putting the knife back in the sheath needn't be a big deal, with a little paracord I've come up with a rig on a lanyard that goes around your neck that can easily be slid in and out of your shirt. Tonight I'm gonna be in the deep freeze checking this out. It'll probably suck, I don't have much in the way winter clothing. At least there'll be somebody watching to see wether or not I'm dying in there. I know when to quit too, I'm not gonna get frostbite over this. I sure hope that dog shows up...

I still say that it's a good idea to stick the knife back in the sheath if you are setting it down for any length of time at all. When gutting an animal, I keep a piece of terrycloth handy, sometimes lashed onto my belt, to clean it off between uses. I also have a hole drilled in the tip of my kydex to facilitate drainage and allow the sheath to be flushed.

Still, in those particular circumstances, I wouldn't reccomend a Project 1 as being the best knife for an arctic climate. However, it does quite well in ever other one, so I would reccomend it as a good generalist knife, and give advice on what to do with it when it's real cold.

 

[Snickersnee]

Liquid nitrogen is some freaky stuff! It's real cold, but evaporates quite fast. You can throw a bucket of it at somebody and it will evaprate before it even hits them just from their body heat, so I'm told.

Back on topic, I just have a hard time understanding how things can be so much different for me than everybody else when it comes to rust, especialy since I'm in a particularly corrosive environment. I'm not calling you a liar, it just strikes me as odd.

I'd agree with stainless for a fillet knife. A fillet knife tends to get left in a tackle box quite a bit, and their flexibility makes them a pain in the butt to sharpen.

As to the period of time while you sleep being long enough to lose an edge, yeah, if your knife and sheath is wet. Practical experiment has proven that stainless steels fair no better. There is probably a point at which a carbon steel blade has lost more edge than a stainless one, but the stainless catches up by the time you wake up, assuming the standard eight hours of sleep. I prefer ten when I can get it, but I only need about two hours to be functional for long periods. The thing is, edges are thin, therefore it doesn't take long for edge-destroying corrosion to set in, irregardless of steel type.

My face tends to get into pretty bad shape exposed to temperatures that are just below freezing, never mind zero. Maybe that's why I frigg'n hate the cold. I should drink anitfreeze or something. Actualy, isn't that what whiskey's for? I think that's the stuff that if you get lost in a mountain, a dog will come up and give you.

By the way, what's up with the dog? I mean, I've been up in the mountains with snow pouring down and no permanent shelter around, and pretty damn cold, but that dog never showed up.

I wouldn't argue that steel is the best handle material to hold onto bare handed in artic climates, not by far. What I am saying is that you can work around it. Putting the knife back in the sheath needn't be a big deal, with a little paracord I've come up with a rig on a lanyard that goes around your neck that can easily be slid in and out of your shirt. Tonight I'm gonna be in the deep freeze checking this out. It'll probably suck, I don't have much in the way winter clothing. At least there'll be somebody watching to see wether or not I'm dying in there. I know when to quit too, I'm not gonna get frostbite over this. I sure hope that dog shows up...

I still say that it's a good idea to stick the knife back in the sheath if you are setting it down for any length of time at all. When gutting an animal, I keep a piece of terrycloth handy, sometimes lashed onto my belt, to clean it off between uses. I also have a hole drilled in the tip of my kydex to facilitate drainage and allow the sheath to be flushed.

Still, in those particular circumstances, I wouldn't reccomend a Project 1 as being the best knife for an arctic climate. However, it does quite well in ever other one, so I would reccomend it as a good generalist knife, and give advice on what to do with it when it's real cold.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Snickersnee :

Liquid nitrogen is some freaky stuff! It's real cold, but evaporates quite fast. You can throw a bucket of it at somebody and it will evaprate before it even hits them just from their body heat, so I'm told

I would not try doing that unless you really didn't like that person. It would hit them. One of the more interesting things liquid nitrogen does is supercool the air around it. It is also pseudo-stable once this happens and it doesn't really look like anything special. The first time I encountered it in the lab it I actually reached down into a dewer to try and fish something out. Luckily the very cold air on top of the liquid convinced me this was not a good idea.

I just have a hard time understanding how things can be so much different for me than everybody else when it comes to rust, especialy since I'm in a particularly corrosive environment.

Doesn't Tom Mayo live in a similar area? I am sure I have heard him comment numerous times about corrosion being a big problem. Why don't you have a problem? Beats me. Wish I was the same.

The thing is, edges are thin, therefore it doesn't take long for edge-destroying corrosion to set in, irregardless of steel type.

Corrosion rates are very different over the various steels. I have not noticed any functional rust on AUS-8 and 440C due to edge degradation but have seen knives in M2 lose their edge from rusting and not use. Basically if I sharpen my Calypso Jr., I don't need to sharpen it again until I have cut with it enough to wear it off. However I used to have to check my M2 mini-AFCK regularly to touchup the edge even though it was rarely used (backup knife).

When gutting an animal, I keep a piece of terrycloth handy, sometimes lashed onto my belt, to clean it off between uses.

I do something similar when I am cleaning fish. I slightly oil the rag as well. With wood cutting though this does not help as tree sap doesn't wipe off.

As for the dog, you could borrow mine. I don't think he would bring you anything to drink, odds are he would drink something you had though.

-Cliff