survival guns?

An accurate .22mag rifle will feed you and you can carry plenty of ammo. Yep, used carefully it can get deer. A Single Six with dual cylinders is a nice companion.

A lever action in .357 Mag with sling swivels and a peep sight can be a handy shooter that can be used for deer at closer ranges, switch to .38 specials (will take some testing because of different point of impact) for small game. Use the same ammo you would use in a revolver for defense and you have a redneck assault rifle. Don't use for sustained firefights, just to give yourself a chance to break contact and disappear.

The same configuration in .30-30 would be a good all around piece. Used to be a favorite of the old Texas Rangers. I like the feel of the Winchester in my hands, but the Marlin is a simpler field strip, important in survival conditions.

Shotguns were one of the prevelant arms on the frontier for the common settler for good reason. They are versatile. They're heavy, as is the ammo, but a pump shotgun can do a lot. Rather than a 18 inch riot barrel, try to find a 24 inch, choke tubed, barrel. This one does good duty for a wide range of uses.

For feeding yourself and defense from critters, a single shot, such as the NEF handi-rifle with a rifle barrel in a good hunting caliber and fitted shotgun barrel makes a nice packable set.

Finally, as has been noted, whatever you happen to have at hand when you need it. Shoot a variety of arms, be familiar with actions, limitations, strengths of both the weapons and the rounds they fire. Then you can work within the parameters of whatever you have at hand.

SHTF situation, a little sneak prowess, predator heart, and whatever you have you can use to liberate the arms, ammo, and supplies of the armchair commandos and mall ninjas. Hunt slow, hunt patiently, kill swiftly - whatever the prey.

Your brain will be your biggest tool. Afghanis were dropping Russian helicopters that were flying nap of the earth through the mountains by getting on the ridges above them and tossing big rocks into the rotors. The Russians finally decided flying below peak level wasn't such a good idea.

i wasn't referring to buying it.
Click to expand...
:thumbup: :D
 
This is one of those matters that everyone's gonna have a different idea about. No one's really right or wrong, just differently suited.

Here in Alaska when it's time to get serious about survival, I tend to be one of the ones that prefers a 12 ga. I typically load it with slugs, and keep a few #4 birdshot with me. That way I got something to take care of a bear, a squirrel, and in the crappiest of circumstances I'd be well set to take a moose. That's a lotta food, fur an' shelter there.....:D

a .22 is a valid choice where the critters are smaller or if long term survival is a consideration, but it's pretty rare for most of the problems I'd be likely to deal with to last more than a few days.

When I'm travelling lighter I carry all sortsa wierd handgun choices. My favorite two choices are a Smith J-Frame .357 Mag or my wife's 1911 .45 ACP though. Typically the farther out I go, the heavier gun I pack.
 
What is survival?

Could be described with many distinctly different scenarios.

If it was:
Shoot as much small game with as much certainty and ease as possible, I'd either go with a quality, scoped .22 boltaction, or a single shot 12 gauge (H&R)with modified choke.

These have been the two weapons I have been the most successful with on small game. They encourage good fire discipline and marksmanship (via a slow rate of fire), because you quickly learn that a hurried, botched shot means you probably won't get a second one.

If you start out with something rapid firing, you may do what I've seen a lot of hunters do, which is to fall into the rapid fire ammo-wasting trap of bang bang bang -- miss miss miss. Emptying the gun as fast as possible, and still having nothing to show for it. I've never seen another hunter empty his weapon rapidly, and actually bring something to bag. Instead, they shoot up 3 boxes of ammo in one morning, in a failed bid to limit out. With all the birds and rabbits holding harder, and much more difficult to flush.

Just something to think about.

Or get the long-barreled Swedish Mauser. It hangs on target beautifully, and does well on medium game.

Good luck with your hunting endeavors. Hunt safely.
 
That last post kinda reminded me of how awful and mean my parents were when I was a kid.

All my friends had 10/22's, Marlin semi autos, nylon 66's, etc.

All I had was a crappy little Ithica single shot .22. If I wanted to go squirrel or rabbit hunting I was handed four cartridges and was darn well expected to bring home four dead squirrels.

Then it started occurring to me later in life that I was actually a pretty darn good shot, while most of my friends had a real nasty tendency to waste ammo, miss, wound game, etc. and I could outshoot the heck outta them on my worst day.

Guess my folks weren't so cruel afterall.
 
nate1714 said:
intresting comments so far... im liking the idea of the double barrle 22 and 20g.
Click to expand...

If survival consists of putting food on the table, that combo is hard to beat. Older ones are easy to find on the auction and classified sites and won't break the bank. I go back and forth between the 22lr / 20ga and the 22mag / 20ga... and sometimes I go back and forth on the .30-30/20ga or .30-30 / 12ga. Right now there are a couple listed in .357/20ga, which would be an interesting companion to a .357 revolver. They sell for around $450 new on the street. Used, you can pick one up for around $250 - $350 depending on caliber (I just did.)

If survival consists of fighting your way through a pack of starving crackheads in New Orleans, you're talking a different type of survival. In that case you're looking for a semi-auto rifle or shotgun, or a pump rifle or shotgun, or a lever action rifle. 30 caliber+ and 12 gauge does it for me... but the smaller bores are more than adequate for 95% of the problems you'll encounter.

My personal picks:
Food: Savage Model 24 in .22lr / 20ga. Very versatile with .22 CB caps, Shorts or Long Rifles; quiet, too, with the first two loads mentioned. 20ga for birds, moving prey... and slugs for bigger stuff.

Defense: M1 Garand (.30-'06), M1A (.308); same basic round. Remington 870 12ga, replace the factory barrel with a 24" version. Marlin or Winchester lever guns in .30-30 or .44mag. Some kind of medium to large bore handgun, in case you get caught up close and don't have your long gun handy.

The defensive scenario is obviously more problematic than the food scenario. If I could ONLY have one to start off with, and it had to provide both food and defense, I'd go with one of the semi-auto or lever rifles in the Defense category.
 
One of the little projects I have going on right now is building a tactical/survival lever action. The cal. will be 30-30 since that is so common and there are tons of them out there. I should be finished in about two weeks and will post shots of it.
But at the same time, you can't beat a good 12 ga. pump for overall use.
 
For purely survival, not fighting of MZBs, but rather a situation like the one faced in Snow Walker, I would choose one of the over/under guns, probably in .22LR and .20 ga. shotgun. I would carry a couple hundred rounds of .22LR for hunting small animal, a box of #6 .20ga for birds and 10 or so slugs for large game like deer or pig. IIRC Ragnar Benson first recommended this type of gun as the best all round survival weapon.
OldSalt.
 
Anything Cal 5.56
When you have to take out the enemy ( which may be within) you'll have more ammo.
For silent hits... a 10/22 Ruger with a 2 LTR soda bottle, taped over the barrel will do nicely.
 
What do you guys think of single shot pistols, like Thompson Center's Encore?

I am on the verge of getting one in .223. They have interchangeable barrels, so you can shoot anything from rimfire to shotshells to belted magnum rifle calibers. A lot of guys hunt big game with them using calibers like .308 win.

You can get the gun in carbine form too.

http://www.tcarms.com/TC_HTML/TC_Enc.htm

Scott
 
There are two general types of long arms that are good at both common chores of a "survival" long arm, emergency hunting and spontaneous combat.

These are the 30. cal bolt action and the 12 gauge pump shotgun. Both have been used to take all sorts of game all over the world, and both have been a combat arm for over a century. Both are robust, powerful, and variable. If I had to choose one survivial gun, I'd choose one or the other of those because of the "worst case scenario" aspect inherent to survivial situations.

That said, most survivial situations that I know about involve an element of suprise. If I knew that the s*** was about to hit the fan, I wouldn't even be there with my survival rifle. I'd be somewhere else, drinking hot chocolate.

In a suprise situation, you probably just won't have that big long arm handy. But you probably could have a pistol handy. Any pistol (even a small .22 pocket revolver) that is in your trained hand when the winds of fate blow hard beats the hell out of the rifle or shotgun back at home.

For that reason, I'd look at a good pistol, and most likely for you, a revolver. There are .45 Ruger revolvers that can be had with an exchangable .22 cylander and sleeve. This gives you a tremendous amount of variability in a compact, robust, powerful and easily carried package.

Take care,
Jeff
 
TC's are awesome guns! I own one of the older (early 90's) pistol set ups. I have a .22 LR 14" w/scope, a .375 Winchester (hurts to shoot!), a .44 Mag, and the .45LC/.410 shotgun bbl. I used to own a second frame (K-Chromed by SSK Industries) with a scoped .22 Hornet bbl (made a mess of woodchucks), but I sold it. I also had a .223 bbl, but the sharp report was too much for me. Some shells are best left in rifles...LOL!!!! I use the .45/.410 bbl the most, with the 2.5 inch .410 shotgun shells. In a shell this small, I like no. 7 1/2 shot. Great small game shell at 25 yards!!!! This is much like the old H+R Handygun or the Marble Gamegetter of the 1920's. Shotgun pistols were outlawed in 1933 under the Federal Firearms act, along with machine guns, due to the public outcry over the Gangsters of that era. You can get a permit, but after months of red tape and several hundred bucks. But TC's with shotgun shells in rifled bbl's are legal, aside from in California. A real quality set up. I have been considering the Encore. I live about an hour from the TC factory and outlet store (Fox Ridge Outfitters) in Rochester NH. If you are ever up this way, by all means visit Fox Ridge and you will be amazed at everything there is for TC owners. A word of warning; Watch the recoil!!!! A buddy of mine has a scar on his forehead from a decade ago. We were sighting in his scoped .35 Remington bbl on his T.C. pistol. He fired prone, and WHACK! It jumped back and the scope laid his forehead wide open. Blood everywhre. We couldn't stop laughing. The scar is still there...LOL!!!! So if you get a rifle high-caliber bbl set up, use CAUTION. Fox Ridge Outfitters has a website if you search and you could request a catalog. You need an FFL for the frame, but the bbl's, grips, stocks, scopes, etc. are shipped direct.
 
hicomp,

I have often thought about that TC in .45/410 as the uber-variable single hunting gun set up.

How is the recoil of the .375 Win compared to that your old .223 barrell?

Thanks for the info!

Take care,
Jeff
 
There are other reasons I like takedown guns:

-The M6 folds in half (or takes down in halves) to stow in your pack. Here, it is out of sight and out of mind to authority figures, or the timid.

-I like to fish with full sized fishing poles. But when I go backpacking with them, they stick out and take a beating on tree limbs and rocks. Similarly, a takedown weapon folds small to stay out of the way.

-The M6 only weighs about 4 lbs. When you're backpacking in the fall, this is a lot easier to deal with than a 7, 8 or 10lb weapon, especially when you aren't even sure you'll see any grouse.

-Stowed in your pack, your hands are freed up to do whatever.

Or just take a .22 pistol or revolver. Is S&W still making the Kit Gun?
A used S&W Model 10 w/ 4" barrel would be just as useful. For lightweight ammo, carry aluminum cased Blaser ammo.
 
Well ya can't beat a shotgun. Hiking in Co. I carry a S&W 329PD- 44mag
with buffalo hard cast bullets. As far as food goes I would eat my foot
prior to having to have to shoot this bloody thing.
However with the shotgun you could use a Dragon Breath load. Kill em and
grill em all in one shot.
 
My kit has an AR-15 and a S&W XD .45 in it. the AR-15 i selected for a number of reasons. #1 .223 is cheap as dirt. you can buy thousands of round still sealed in sardine cans. perfect for ammo stores. #2 I can hit anything with it. be it at 10 yards, or 400 yds+ i can hit it. and with a well aimed shot it can take down anything. the XD i mainly because i trust S&W.. and the .45 has amazing stopping power.

I also have a 9mm for it's shear versitility. 9mm ammo is everywhere. cops use it, military use it, and if the SHTF it won't be hard to come by. the only thing I rely on the 9 for is the fact that the first 3 rounds in the mag are less than lethal.
 
The .375 Win TC explodes like a nuke, and twists backwards in your hand. It is like hanging onto a pissed off mule's leg. The .223 bbl, it was ear splitting. No real recoil, oh the bbl jumps up a bit, but the blast from the muzzel was too loud, even with ear protection. I don't hunt with ear protection (although I may start, as I'm going deaf!), so the .223 was too much as far as noise. I have owned Ruger Mini 14's in .223 before, and they were not nearly as loud. I'm guessing the shorter bbl caues the increase in noise. Or perhaps it is the same, and it is my perception. Anyhow, for me, the .223 is a rifle cartridge.
 
Just before my Alaska trip in 2004 I tried to find an M6 but ran out of time. I really kicked myself for not trying harder after a few days in the bush.

The area was loaded with spruce grouse and ptarmigan. Spruce grouse are tough birds, dumb as mud, but they can take alot of punishment and still fly away. You would think taking a pheasant-sized bird sitting in a tree 30 feet away with a .22 revolver would be a piece of cake. I qucikly learned that you have to hit them in the head or through the shoulders breaking the wings or they just fly away.

My brother had a similar experience in Canada on a caribou bowhunt. He put a Zwicky broadhead, total pass-through shot on a spruce grouse and it flew off.

One of the other hunters didn't believe me that I had hit several with solid body shots and they just flew away. He tried his luck with his .357 magnum. He hit a bird on the ground, gutting it completely, the bird ran leaving a massive blood trail, broke cover and flew off into the forest.

Later that week my Brother-in-law came up and had a 12 ga riot gun in the truck. We snagged that and had a great time wingshooting birds. They drop right away to a shotgun. That little M6 would have fed us well. Mac
 
why is everyone talking up the .22 rev....im thinking i would prefer a rifle because i could get better shot with it...maybe im wrong.....whats so great about the pistol then size?
 
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