Someone on another thread was talking about one of those "Little John" urinals. After reading this thread, I think if I had to camp in seriously cold weather, I would consider taking one along.
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Survival in Extreme Temperatures (Cold)
- Thread starter JSMcustoms
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Someone on another thread was talking about one of those "Little John" urinals. After reading this thread, I think if I had to camp in seriously cold weather, I would consider taking one along.
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Most important is attitude, then training. If you think you're going to die, may as well do so... don't know if I would survive, but I'm going to try damn hard to!
You need to take a multi-layered approach to the elements when out in freezing temps. First is clothing, next is man-made shelter (tent/tarp/etc), then field shelters, then fire/heat/warmth, last comfort.
It will really depend on what kind of environment you are in, if wooded, you can build or shelter inside/behind a great tree. In flatlands or snow, you can shelter by digging down, or building up & around yourself.
There are multiple techniques, depending on the environment... and it doesn't require batoning!
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That is brutal. I remember shooting ptarmagans in -45 and that was pretty hard on me. I could feel the cold seeping into my thighs even while walking around.
Here's my take for ski touring in New England. This assumes lots of sweating, and reliance on a cook stove and not a fire, hence heavy use o synthetic clothing. Above treeline adds more concerns.
Some thing to emphasize is that hard work keeps you warm while moving. Trick is to blow off wet steam effectively and then quickly bundle up when you stop.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/clothing.html
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Pinnah very interesting read, thank you for posting it.
I was just outside having a cigarette, so I was sitting for about 10 minutes. I was wearing a pair of carhartt double fronts, thick cotton socks, unlined boots, t shirt, hoodie, hickory shirt and my down parka with a fleece ear flap hat and my hood up. Man it was COLD! It's only about 28 degrees with no wind, but we do have freezing fog.
I'd bet that if I had some gloves, and long johns on I'd be comfortable for more than 10 minutes. Maybe I'm just a sissy. If you all are going to be sitting outside for extended periods of time what do you wear to stay comfortable? Or is there no comfortable when it's really cold?
Can you tell I grew up in California?
I was just outside having a cigarette, so I was sitting for about 10 minutes. I was wearing a pair of carhartt double fronts, thick cotton socks, unlined boots, t shirt, hoodie, hickory shirt and my down parka with a fleece ear flap hat and my hood up. Man it was COLD! It's only about 28 degrees with no wind, but we do have freezing fog.
I'd bet that if I had some gloves, and long johns on I'd be comfortable for more than 10 minutes. Maybe I'm just a sissy. If you all are going to be sitting outside for extended periods of time what do you wear to stay comfortable? Or is there no comfortable when it's really cold?
Can you tell I grew up in California?
Pinnah very interesting read, thank you for posting it.
I was just outside having a cigarette, so I was sitting for about 10 minutes. I was wearing a pair of carhartt double fronts, thick cotton socks, unlined boots, t shirt, hoodie, hickory shirt and my down parka with a fleece ear flap hat and my hood up. Man it was COLD! It's only about 28 degrees with no wind, but we do have freezing fog.
I'd bet that if I had some gloves, and long johns on I'd be comfortable for more than 10 minutes. Maybe I'm just a sissy. If you all are going to be sitting outside for extended periods of time what do you wear to stay comfortable? Or is there no comfortable when it's really cold?
Can you tell I grew up in California?
Seems that you haven't acclimated yet. Damp cold is worse than dry cold. If I'm going to be still for an extended period of time in 10 - 20 F weather (i.e. ice fishing) then dual layer wool/polypropylene under close knit medium wool pants, same under medium polar fleece under winter jacket, heavy wool socks with toe warmers inside insulated boots, and a medium full face hat under winter hood, and something to insulate myself from the ice (i.e. sleeping pad).
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I've lived in Washington for 8 years or so. But I've only been on the dry side of the mountains for about a year.
I went back outside again, but this time I put on a pair of old deer skin gloves that I cut the fingers off of and it made a world of difference. My wife still didn't want to help me warm up my hands though
I went back outside again, but this time I put on a pair of old deer skin gloves that I cut the fingers off of and it made a world of difference. My wife still didn't want to help me warm up my hands though
First of all im no expert. So this is just an input! I almost feel bad for posting this becose its _so_ limited. There are so much more to this. But atleat its something.
I do have some experiens, first I live in Sweden just had -32 C last week. Thats insane even here (didnt go out for 3 days)
I was in the Army and have went thru the "winter soldier" Education . Now days I do alot of winter sports and enjoy being out in the winter skiing and stuff like that.
I cant go over everything here, just takes to much time, but I will start writing and we will see how long I go.
Some points im going to bring up have been writen about earlier in the thread. I will have all my temps in C, just convert
Body temp.
The ideal temp for humans in resting is 27C outside. The skin temp then is 33-34 C The body will always try to be 37C (inside)
When the temp drops the body will keep trying to get to this point. If it cant it will move
the blood from the outerparts from the body and keep the organs warm. This is when you get
pale and you will be cold. The heat you lose at -10C half of it comes thru your head. At -20
you lose 75% thru your head. Get a good hat! If the skin temp drops to 15C you will have big
truble using your hands.
You can combat this thru clouth and moving around. And you need energi and water at least 0,5-1L /24h if you dont sweat/resting (minimum). more like 4L /24h if you do work.
If you can always drink warm fluid. DONT eat snow.
You biggest enemy is getting wet. And if you are out for say 1 week this is a huge problem. You cant allow yourself to sweat. You need to be real active
with your layers. DONT get wet.
The next big thing is wind. Im not going to explain how it works but in short. Wind is bad, at 5m/s (meter/second) -5C is like -15C. The risk of getting frostbite
is getting high at around -30 no wind. And say that it blows 8m/s it will be dangerous as early as -10C.
If you get frostbite (small white spots) In the face, Get out of the wind and get you buddy to warm it with his hand. Dont rub! On your hand, put it in your buddys armpit.
Drink something warm. Eat something. If its not gone in 30 min its a "deep" frostbite, you need a doctor in 2-3h time.
Gear.
Layers, work in layers. Its super important to be able to regulate sweat/heat. Im not going to go in alot to this, there are ton of info in base layers etc
Have extra layers to change if something gets wet. (applyes to all layers) Dont forget to have diffrent hats aswell.
There are some tips that are the big ones.
_Dont_ get wet. If you going to do some kind of work take clouth off, be real active in layering.
Dont shave befor you go out, you remove the fat that protects you against frostbite. Wait atleast 4-5h after shaving.
My winter gear list. For skiing. (just clothes)
-On me
first layer is a 200 wool upper and lowerbody
Thin hat (wool 200)
buff
I always have 2 socks one liner 200 wool and one thicker
Hestra Seth Morrison Pro Model Glove
I have 2 diffrent mid layers one thinner fleece and one thinker wool. Dependet on weather I use both or one of them.
the other one go in the pack.
I have a second leg layer 400 wool. Same thing depending on weather I use on of them or both. Other one in pack.
I use a hard shell jacket and pants. I like hard shells becos I can vary my layers below alot and keep the protection from the shell.
-In my pack
extra first layer 200 wool
The mid layers I dont use.
Patagonia Nano Puff Mens Jacket
Extra sock sets
extra glovs, Hestra Heli 3-Finger Mittens with extra wool inserts.
wool balaclava
Gaters
And if I know its going to be real cold outside I pack a Down jacket big style that go over the shell jacket.
and same for the pants but they go under the shell pants (shell pants are baggy)
This is me skiing, Im not going in to the avalanche gear or repair kits I have with me etc and its not a survival setup even tho I would pack a knife and a way of getting fire going. Just take it for what it is
I hope it will give you an idea atleast.
Edit* Adding some temp info*
Active
From 0C to -*10C I use my lightest midlayers.
From -10C to -20C I use my thicker wool midlayer and also beef up my leg layer to my 400 wool. I also switch to my beefer glovs
Standing still I beef up with my Patagonia Nano Puff jacket under the shell and a thicker hat.
If its alot colder then -20 I would not go out if I have a choice. But if I was the story is still the same, but I would have my Down jacket to put over my shell when standing still. And maby use the
Patagonia Nano Puff jacket as another layer under the shell.
I do have some experiens, first I live in Sweden just had -32 C last week. Thats insane even here (didnt go out for 3 days)
I was in the Army and have went thru the "winter soldier" Education . Now days I do alot of winter sports and enjoy being out in the winter skiing and stuff like that.
I cant go over everything here, just takes to much time, but I will start writing and we will see how long I go.
Some points im going to bring up have been writen about earlier in the thread. I will have all my temps in C, just convert
Body temp.
The ideal temp for humans in resting is 27C outside. The skin temp then is 33-34 C The body will always try to be 37C (inside)
When the temp drops the body will keep trying to get to this point. If it cant it will move
the blood from the outerparts from the body and keep the organs warm. This is when you get
pale and you will be cold. The heat you lose at -10C half of it comes thru your head. At -20
you lose 75% thru your head. Get a good hat! If the skin temp drops to 15C you will have big
truble using your hands.
You can combat this thru clouth and moving around. And you need energi and water at least 0,5-1L /24h if you dont sweat/resting (minimum). more like 4L /24h if you do work.
If you can always drink warm fluid. DONT eat snow.
You biggest enemy is getting wet. And if you are out for say 1 week this is a huge problem. You cant allow yourself to sweat. You need to be real active
with your layers. DONT get wet.
The next big thing is wind. Im not going to explain how it works but in short. Wind is bad, at 5m/s (meter/second) -5C is like -15C. The risk of getting frostbite
is getting high at around -30 no wind. And say that it blows 8m/s it will be dangerous as early as -10C.
If you get frostbite (small white spots) In the face, Get out of the wind and get you buddy to warm it with his hand. Dont rub! On your hand, put it in your buddys armpit.
Drink something warm. Eat something. If its not gone in 30 min its a "deep" frostbite, you need a doctor in 2-3h time.
Gear.
Layers, work in layers. Its super important to be able to regulate sweat/heat. Im not going to go in alot to this, there are ton of info in base layers etc
Have extra layers to change if something gets wet. (applyes to all layers) Dont forget to have diffrent hats aswell.
There are some tips that are the big ones.
_Dont_ get wet. If you going to do some kind of work take clouth off, be real active in layering.
Dont shave befor you go out, you remove the fat that protects you against frostbite. Wait atleast 4-5h after shaving.
My winter gear list. For skiing. (just clothes)
-On me
first layer is a 200 wool upper and lowerbody
Thin hat (wool 200)
buff
I always have 2 socks one liner 200 wool and one thicker
Hestra Seth Morrison Pro Model Glove
I have 2 diffrent mid layers one thinner fleece and one thinker wool. Dependet on weather I use both or one of them.
the other one go in the pack.
I have a second leg layer 400 wool. Same thing depending on weather I use on of them or both. Other one in pack.
I use a hard shell jacket and pants. I like hard shells becos I can vary my layers below alot and keep the protection from the shell.
-In my pack
extra first layer 200 wool
The mid layers I dont use.
Patagonia Nano Puff Mens Jacket
Extra sock sets
extra glovs, Hestra Heli 3-Finger Mittens with extra wool inserts.
wool balaclava
Gaters
And if I know its going to be real cold outside I pack a Down jacket big style that go over the shell jacket.
and same for the pants but they go under the shell pants (shell pants are baggy)
This is me skiing, Im not going in to the avalanche gear or repair kits I have with me etc and its not a survival setup even tho I would pack a knife and a way of getting fire going. Just take it for what it is
I hope it will give you an idea atleast.
Edit* Adding some temp info*
Active
From 0C to -*10C I use my lightest midlayers.
From -10C to -20C I use my thicker wool midlayer and also beef up my leg layer to my 400 wool. I also switch to my beefer glovs
Standing still I beef up with my Patagonia Nano Puff jacket under the shell and a thicker hat.
If its alot colder then -20 I would not go out if I have a choice. But if I was the story is still the same, but I would have my Down jacket to put over my shell when standing still. And maby use the
Patagonia Nano Puff jacket as another layer under the shell.
Last edited:
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I am working outdoors in Afghanistan in similar temperature conditions. Last night got down to -8 degrees with a steady 12 mile per hour wind. Now that doesn't sound to bad but after a while even with cold weather gear I stay pretty chilly. Getting out of the wind is definitely a must, we really don't have that option so we take turns warming up under a fleece blanket. Biggest concern is frost bite, by the end of shift my toes are almost always numb. Only way I know to fight frost bite setting in is to constantly move my toes. My buddies gave me crap when I told them about that but to date I have never had severe frostbite. The sand storm the other night was another story. It was about 6 degrees with a wind that was so strong it blew over staked down porta-john There was nothing I could do to stay warm. I tried getting under a blanket and camo netting but the wind was so strong it was just blowing right through it. First time in a while I got so cold I was nauseous. Only thing I could do was push-ups and jog in place to stay warm. Not sure how long I could keep that up in a true survival situation but it got me through night.
I was just outside having a cigarette, so I was sitting for about 10 minutes. I was wearing a pair of carhartt double fronts, thick cotton socks, unlined boots, t shirt, hoodie, hickory shirt and my down parka with a fleece ear flap hat and my hood up. Man it was COLD! It's only about 28 degrees with no wind, but we do have freezing fog.
I'd bet that if I had some gloves, and long johns on I'd be comfortable for more than 10 minutes. Maybe I'm just a sissy. If you all are going to be sitting outside for extended periods of time what do you wear to stay comfortable? Or is there no comfortable when it's really cold?
Can you tell I grew up in California?
If it were me, these would be the adjustments I would look at for being warmer around town...
1) Swap out cotton socks for wool or wool blend. I prefer the ones with looped insides over rag wool. Rag wool is for hiking with liner socks underneath. For day to day use, hiking socks are warmer and very comfortable. I get 2 days of use out of them prior to laundering. Wool does that.
2) Add light weight long johns. They are light enough that you don't over heat and thin enough that they fit under day to day pants. Wool is quite popular but I like polyester (e.g. Wickers, Patagonia, Cabelas...)
3) Ensure your down parka is sealed at the hem, cuffs and most importantly the neck. When you move, the movement can act like a bellows, pushing warm air out and pulling cold air in. Batten down the hatches. The hem should be snug enough to prevent self-made wind pushing out warm air but not so tight it creeps up your back. Zip up the collar fully. A good fitting collar that is snug but not buggy is a "must have" when I buy a jacket.
4) Add a scarf. Think of it as a "head gasket". In the woods, I carry a balaclava. In town or skiing at a ski area, a scarf is easier to manage and more adjustable.
5) Don't stand on concrete. Those uninsulated boots will allow the cold pavement to draw the heat out of your feet. Hockey moms and dads and ice fisherman will carry small bits of sleeping pad foam to stand on for this reason.
Hope this helps,
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Thanks for the reply. Those are all good suggestions. And I do all of that stuff except the heavy socks since I hate them
But I'm not gonna do that stuff to just go have a smoke. So I do get cold when I'm smoking and it makes me wonder what folks wear when it's actually cold and they're sitting.
I guess once you're wearing long johns top and bottom and fleece/wool sweats and a parka and gloves, scarf hat and all of that stuff, the next step is insulated pants?
But I'm not gonna do that stuff to just go have a smoke. So I do get cold when I'm smoking and it makes me wonder what folks wear when it's actually cold and they're sitting.
I guess once you're wearing long johns top and bottom and fleece/wool sweats and a parka and gloves, scarf hat and all of that stuff, the next step is insulated pants?
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Great post nyddde. Avoid boots that are too tight. If your boots are snug and you put heavy socks on, your boots may feel too tight. There are two problems with that: 1. compression diminishes the insulation value of the sock or boot, and 2. you compress your small blood vessels and prevent warm blood from getting into your toes & skin. I prefer to wear thin socks and give my feet room in insulated boots. Felt lined snow boots rock--just be sure to keep your feet dry.
Yeap a good point you bring up. Winter gear in general should not be snug fitting for best performance, for the reason you bring up. The air is the thing doing the isolation. When you try out boots, hiking boots winter/summer you need to bring the socksystem your planning on using to get the right size boot.
Last edited:
Codger_64
Moderator
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A pee bottle in the tent on a cold night is a wonderful thing.
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I haven't gotten any advanced training but the army has given me the basics. First thing they told us is cotton kills, not because it won't keep you warm, it will until it gets wet. Cotton takes forever to dry and will stick to your skin when wet, and freeze there. We use an acronym (yes I know who would have guessed the army would have one, and this one is forced): COLD.
Clean: Keeping you and your clothes free of dirt and oils is important, they reduce the fabrics ability to insulate and cause it to wear quicker.
Avoid over heating: This one is simple, avoid sweating. Eventually you will have to slow down and stop, then you are wet.
Loose Layers: Air is important to insulation, you also want to prevent cutting off or reducing circulation. I use three to four layers, the base layer provides some insulation but is mainly moister wicking The second and third layers are for insulation, this will be your thicker fleeces and such. Although these are to keep you warm they should continue the moister wicking process. Your final layer is the outer shell, it should be at least water resistant and cut the wind. For the feet good water proof and insulated boots with warm socks, preferably wool or similar because your feed will sweat no mater what you do. For the hands mittens are the best, but since those are hard to work with we combine large mittens with light contact gloves. Wear the light gloves inside the mittens and take your hands out only when you need to. For your head tinted glass or preferably wind goggles to prevent snow blindness and a balaclava. Once it gets really cold it is important to keep as much skin as possible covered.
Dry: This is self explanatory, stay dry and if you get wet get dry as soon as possible, hopefully you have dry cloths to change into.
Shelter is also important. Get out of the wind and preferably whatever is falling from the sky. Snow shelters are good but take a while to make. Building a shelter also takes time. If you have a good multiple layer sleep system you can survive in extreme cold if you use it right, don't forget to clear the snow down to bare earth before you turn in, seriously I have seen people try just throw their sleeping bags down in the snow.
Fire or a portable heater is really nice to have, but if it isn't in an enclose space or really big you won't get much heat.
As others have touched on food is a necessity, stay warm takes a lot of calories. Water is just as important though, it is much easier to get dehydrated in cold weather than most people think.
Clean: Keeping you and your clothes free of dirt and oils is important, they reduce the fabrics ability to insulate and cause it to wear quicker.
Avoid over heating: This one is simple, avoid sweating. Eventually you will have to slow down and stop, then you are wet.
Loose Layers: Air is important to insulation, you also want to prevent cutting off or reducing circulation. I use three to four layers, the base layer provides some insulation but is mainly moister wicking The second and third layers are for insulation, this will be your thicker fleeces and such. Although these are to keep you warm they should continue the moister wicking process. Your final layer is the outer shell, it should be at least water resistant and cut the wind. For the feet good water proof and insulated boots with warm socks, preferably wool or similar because your feed will sweat no mater what you do. For the hands mittens are the best, but since those are hard to work with we combine large mittens with light contact gloves. Wear the light gloves inside the mittens and take your hands out only when you need to. For your head tinted glass or preferably wind goggles to prevent snow blindness and a balaclava. Once it gets really cold it is important to keep as much skin as possible covered.
Dry: This is self explanatory, stay dry and if you get wet get dry as soon as possible, hopefully you have dry cloths to change into.
Shelter is also important. Get out of the wind and preferably whatever is falling from the sky. Snow shelters are good but take a while to make. Building a shelter also takes time. If you have a good multiple layer sleep system you can survive in extreme cold if you use it right, don't forget to clear the snow down to bare earth before you turn in, seriously I have seen people try just throw their sleeping bags down in the snow.
Fire or a portable heater is really nice to have, but if it isn't in an enclose space or really big you won't get much heat.
As others have touched on food is a necessity, stay warm takes a lot of calories. Water is just as important though, it is much easier to get dehydrated in cold weather than most people think.
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I'm just above you Andrew. I consider this southern weather though from were I have lived before. Regardless, the prairies can be extremely cold with that freakin wind chill, and it is always windy here in Saskatchewan. Why ?, because Manitoba sucks...and Alberta blows. O.P., we just learn to dress for the weather around here and bitch about it a lot. People that don't prepare their cars, clothing etc. die or get stubby fingers and toes.
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here in carolina it was a chilly 45* F today 
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Well it turns out that I've been reading the Celsius side of my thermometer. AND reading it wrong. So it's actually been in the teens when I thought it was in the high 20's. I guess I don't feel so bad. Tonight is particularly cold. It warmed up and the snow melted down some today. But now it's about 13 degrees Fahrenheit. Which is about 10 below on the Celsius side of things. At least there's no real wind to speak of.
Wearing my fingerless gloves I felt like my fingers were going to break off like icicles after 10 minutes outside. I actually put on long johns just to go have a smoke.
I think I might actually start looking at insulated boots, which I haven't worn in years.
Wearing my fingerless gloves I felt like my fingers were going to break off like icicles after 10 minutes outside. I actually put on long johns just to go have a smoke.
I think I might actually start looking at insulated boots, which I haven't worn in years.