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SURVIVAL KNIFE RECOMMENDATION HELP !!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter xxxx
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I just got an HI "balance" village khukuri, about 13" oal. Blade's about 8", and for a khuk, it's the cutest little thing. Light, handy, got a sharpening steel and a little 2 1/2" bladed caping knife in the scabbard. Can slice, cut, and it chops way out of proportion to it's size and weight.
No, I wouldn't pick that for MY bag. I'd go with a knife a British gurkha or Indian gorkha would carry - 15/17" oal. Then I'd add the little khuk on top of it.
No, I wouldn't pick that for MY bag. I'd go with a knife a British gurkha or Indian gorkha would carry - 15/17" oal. Then I'd add the little khuk on top of it.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
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Mad Dog ATAK or ATAK2. Ergonomics, blade
geometry, carbon steel and a great sheath.
The best I have used.
Mark
geometry, carbon steel and a great sheath.
The best I have used.
Mark
not2sharp
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Time to add a few knives to the list.
Good field knives with 6-7" blades,
Randall models 14,15,and 18.
also interesting are models 12-little bear and 19 bushmaster.
From Busse we have the Steel Heart II featuring INFINI steel and kydex.
Chris Reeves Aviator and Moutaineer would be good solid choices.
John Greco and Ricky Fowler both have a large number of solid models in this size
at very reasonable prices.
Recently bought an Entek Destroyer model. Feels like a good field knife, reasonably priced well balanced w kydex sheath.
The OSO BLANCO from Aitor in 440C would be a nice factory choice
Buck, AL Mar, Gerber, and Blackjack no longer offer anything useful in this range (I'll pass on the buck intrepid in 420 steel). But, keep your eyes open, all of them had good models in the past.
[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 18 October 1999).]
Good field knives with 6-7" blades,
Randall models 14,15,and 18.
also interesting are models 12-little bear and 19 bushmaster.
From Busse we have the Steel Heart II featuring INFINI steel and kydex.
Chris Reeves Aviator and Moutaineer would be good solid choices.
John Greco and Ricky Fowler both have a large number of solid models in this size
at very reasonable prices.
Recently bought an Entek Destroyer model. Feels like a good field knife, reasonably priced well balanced w kydex sheath.
The OSO BLANCO from Aitor in 440C would be a nice factory choice
Buck, AL Mar, Gerber, and Blackjack no longer offer anything useful in this range (I'll pass on the buck intrepid in 420 steel). But, keep your eyes open, all of them had good models in the past.
[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 18 October 1999).]
Cliff Stamp
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As not2sharp commented, you need to be more specific. Your enviroment plays an important part for one thing. In any case I would strongly suggest an extensive evaluation of the piece you are going to rely on once you have it. Even the best blade makers make the occasional mistake and you want to know that before hand.
The other reason for the evaluation is that it allows you to refine your needs. If you bought two very different knives (say an A1 and a Deerhunter), you might come to the conclusion that you like the Deerhunter as it cuts much better -or- you might realize that the more robust A1 would better suit your needs.
-Cliff
The other reason for the evaluation is that it allows you to refine your needs. If you bought two very different knives (say an A1 and a Deerhunter), you might come to the conclusion that you like the Deerhunter as it cuts much better -or- you might realize that the more robust A1 would better suit your needs.
-Cliff
I think Not2sharp had a great point when he suggested evaluating what YOUR particular survival conditions might be. I am not chicken little screaming the skye is falling but one should always be prepared. When I thought about my needs I thought about my environment and the most likely scenario. I live in a major city, NYC. Should something happen that causes sociatal break down I wont have much trouble making shelter from found objects. See the homeless do it all the time. My major concern wont really be the elements, food or shelter but surviving the anarchy and defending myself against people who would use it as an excuse to abuse anyone and anything they could. THink this cant happen in the USA. Think again. Remember Rodney King. THe 77 NYC blackout. Even places like Bosnia. That was a major bustling city one day and a war zone the next. I floated the idea of a camp knife but soon realized I would be better served with a fast big fighter and practice. It should be inexpensive enough to use without a flinch and made from a material I could sharpen readily. Oh yea and my 12 gauge remington pump !! You really have to envision your most likely situation and buy accordingly.
Alex
This way to my Knife page
<A HREF="http://home.att.net/~a.boriqua" TARGET=_blank>
</A>
[This message has been edited by Boriqua (edited 11-25-2000).]
Alex
This way to my Knife page
<A HREF="http://home.att.net/~a.boriqua" TARGET=_blank>
[This message has been edited by Boriqua (edited 11-25-2000).]
Aubrey
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I disagree with the ATAK. The ATAK has a stick tang that is epoxied into the handle on a taper. I have found that Murphy is alive and well and this joint will part company at the worst possible time.
If my life depends on a blade ...... I would not use anyting but a Busse, Livesay and Dozier.
If you want a hyped up knife ....... your choice but if you want the full performance in a tough as a tank package .....you cannot go wrong with the above three.
I must admit that I like my MPK in A2 a lot as well but I am still wondering about the tang design. If Rick could comment on that and it is full tang, I would include that blade as well.
Another option that I have heard good comments on is TOPS, Strider knives and Trace Rhinaldi. I have orders in with all of them so my comments are based on hear say.
If I took the high road to question what survival is, my nose would start bleeding yet again ;-)
Kind regards
Aubrey
If my life depends on a blade ...... I would not use anyting but a Busse, Livesay and Dozier.
If you want a hyped up knife ....... your choice but if you want the full performance in a tough as a tank package .....you cannot go wrong with the above three.
I must admit that I like my MPK in A2 a lot as well but I am still wondering about the tang design. If Rick could comment on that and it is full tang, I would include that blade as well.
Another option that I have heard good comments on is TOPS, Strider knives and Trace Rhinaldi. I have orders in with all of them so my comments are based on hear say.
If I took the high road to question what survival is, my nose would start bleeding yet again ;-)
Kind regards
Aubrey
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
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- 693
If I had to have one knife to go into harm's way with it would be a Mad Dog. It would be the knife I have total confidence in. Of course it would only be a back up for my Remington 870.
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LD
"Every Dog Has His Day"
BFC Member Since October 2, 1998
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LD
"Every Dog Has His Day"
BFC Member Since October 2, 1998
Cliff Stamp
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Aubrey, the tang on the Mission is partial just like the tang on the MD's. The big difference is that the tang on the Mission's tapers out towards the end. Thus to pull the tang out of the handle you would have to rip apart the grip material.
-Cliff
-Cliff
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Aubrey, have you had actual experience with a Mad Dog's handle separating from the blade? Has anyone? Or are you going with what Mission has said on the subject? I have to take Mission's test results with a grain of salt.
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LD
"Every Dog Has His Day"
BFC Member Since October 2, 1998
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LD
"Every Dog Has His Day"
BFC Member Since October 2, 1998
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Ill start w/the disclaimer again that I like toying w/hi-performance, hi-priced knives as much as anyone on this list; and when I can pull the cash together, Im willing to put it into a good knife.
Knives can indeed become quite specialized and, on this forum, we cherish the *particular* strengths or unique characteristics of a given make and model. But when we say survival knife for a bug-out-bag, presumably were looking for a knife which is, above all, *versatile.* I.e., it can perform all or most tasks effectively, even if it sacrifices superior performance in some areas in order to ensure it doesnt fail in any one area. After all, isnt an emergency or survival situation precisely one whose conditions you cannot fully predict or anticipate beforehand? Even in the pleasantville environment of So Calif where I live, one can drive thru damp, foggy, 55F coastal areas in the morning; arid 85F-100+F desert w/little vegetation in the day; and end up in hilly, wet dense brush terrain in the evening. Sure, you can plan for various scenarios -- and, as usefully noted by not2sharp, cliff, and others, youd better -- but precisely because you cannot know which *one* scenario you may be in before the fact, you need a *versatile* knife.
OK, I suppose if I could afford a second ATAK, it would make a nice knife for the car trunk. But as not2sharp et al thoughtfully show, survival is a way of thinking and preparing which you bring to your knife (and whatever else you have), *not* a set of properties or skills which your knife bestows on you. If youve prepared beforehand, then you should be able to make do just as fine w/an Ontario, Cold Steel, or Kar-Bar as you would w/an equivalent-sized Busse, Mad Dog, Simonich, etc. A bug-out bag is, by its nature, something composed by your knowledge, experience, and foresight, and *no* amount of money trumps or supplants that.
Two of you are in a survival situation, and you are incapacitated w/two broken arms. Who would you rather be with? The prepared individual w/a 4 Spec Plus Parachutist, or the idiot w/the 12 Mad Dog Dragonslayer? If you cannot survive w/a Kar-Bar, having a Busse will not boost your chances, at all.
(yadda, yadda...)
Glen
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The piano has been drinking -Tom Waits
Knives can indeed become quite specialized and, on this forum, we cherish the *particular* strengths or unique characteristics of a given make and model. But when we say survival knife for a bug-out-bag, presumably were looking for a knife which is, above all, *versatile.* I.e., it can perform all or most tasks effectively, even if it sacrifices superior performance in some areas in order to ensure it doesnt fail in any one area. After all, isnt an emergency or survival situation precisely one whose conditions you cannot fully predict or anticipate beforehand? Even in the pleasantville environment of So Calif where I live, one can drive thru damp, foggy, 55F coastal areas in the morning; arid 85F-100+F desert w/little vegetation in the day; and end up in hilly, wet dense brush terrain in the evening. Sure, you can plan for various scenarios -- and, as usefully noted by not2sharp, cliff, and others, youd better -- but precisely because you cannot know which *one* scenario you may be in before the fact, you need a *versatile* knife.
OK, I suppose if I could afford a second ATAK, it would make a nice knife for the car trunk. But as not2sharp et al thoughtfully show, survival is a way of thinking and preparing which you bring to your knife (and whatever else you have), *not* a set of properties or skills which your knife bestows on you. If youve prepared beforehand, then you should be able to make do just as fine w/an Ontario, Cold Steel, or Kar-Bar as you would w/an equivalent-sized Busse, Mad Dog, Simonich, etc. A bug-out bag is, by its nature, something composed by your knowledge, experience, and foresight, and *no* amount of money trumps or supplants that.
Two of you are in a survival situation, and you are incapacitated w/two broken arms. Who would you rather be with? The prepared individual w/a 4 Spec Plus Parachutist, or the idiot w/the 12 Mad Dog Dragonslayer? If you cannot survive w/a Kar-Bar, having a Busse will not boost your chances, at all.
(yadda, yadda...)
Glen
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The piano has been drinking -Tom Waits
Glen --
I was thinking along the same lines as you. Sure, it's best to match the knife to the environment, but suppose we're talking about a person in the Armed Services, who doesn't have unlimited funds, and could just as easily be sent to the desert, the jungle, hot, cold, etc. He wants one knife that will do most things pretty well, but might not be "ideal" in a given situation. Under those conditions, which ONE knife would you want?
Of my current, limited selection, I would want my DSU2.
Steve
I was thinking along the same lines as you. Sure, it's best to match the knife to the environment, but suppose we're talking about a person in the Armed Services, who doesn't have unlimited funds, and could just as easily be sent to the desert, the jungle, hot, cold, etc. He wants one knife that will do most things pretty well, but might not be "ideal" in a given situation. Under those conditions, which ONE knife would you want?
Of my current, limited selection, I would want my DSU2.
Steve
not2sharp
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Quick Sanity Check?
Steve,
I might be wrong about this. And, I hope some of the folks who are or have been in the military can share their thoughs here. But, I would think the modern military is one of the last places we would need to worry about survival (at least with respect to survival knives).
The entire structure of the military is theoretically designed around versatility, and the ability to operate in varrying environments. Does the man in the field really have to worry about his knife and survival when when his resupply drops in like clockwork? He is going to be eating MREs (whatever) regardless of the environment.
A good knife is always a useful item, and the procurement process for the military often does strange and mysteriously absurd things, but,I would rather carry a good basic issued knife (provided there is one) than deal with the logistics of carrying a privately purchased knife. If anything goes wrong with an issued knife the replacement is only a resupply away.
Granted, the military sometimes neglects the small stuff. And in the past the troops of many military organizations have been forced to seek additional equipment from the private sector. But, the survival knife is probably less critical here than it otherwise would be to a civilian expedition.
If the procurement process is really this messed up I think I would start to worry about my rifle and boots (not to mention the military ship/aircraft I might find myself currently in) long before I start worrying about my knife.
Steve,
I might be wrong about this. And, I hope some of the folks who are or have been in the military can share their thoughs here. But, I would think the modern military is one of the last places we would need to worry about survival (at least with respect to survival knives).
The entire structure of the military is theoretically designed around versatility, and the ability to operate in varrying environments. Does the man in the field really have to worry about his knife and survival when when his resupply drops in like clockwork? He is going to be eating MREs (whatever) regardless of the environment.
A good knife is always a useful item, and the procurement process for the military often does strange and mysteriously absurd things, but,I would rather carry a good basic issued knife (provided there is one) than deal with the logistics of carrying a privately purchased knife. If anything goes wrong with an issued knife the replacement is only a resupply away.
Granted, the military sometimes neglects the small stuff. And in the past the troops of many military organizations have been forced to seek additional equipment from the private sector. But, the survival knife is probably less critical here than it otherwise would be to a civilian expedition.
If the procurement process is really this messed up I think I would start to worry about my rifle and boots (not to mention the military ship/aircraft I might find myself currently in) long before I start worrying about my knife.
I pretty much agree with Glen. In fact I think it may sometimes be an advantage to have less expensive knives in something like a bugout bag. I`ve found that even though I tell myself my customs are for using that I still tend to baby them some when I shouldn`t. I`m strongly considering replacing the Crisswell Barracuda II I`ve been carrying for a light field knife with something like a $26 Camilus "AirforceSurvival" knife. Then I won`t be even a little affraid of marring the finish or chipping the edge etc. More expensive isn`t always better and sometimes better isn`t even always better.
Marcus
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Storyville :
There is more to survival than raw function.
For example, if I built a simple shelter with a Battle Mistress and A Marine Raider bowie(I have done so in the past) the activity would be very different with the two knives. The Battle Mistress is much more comfortable in hand while the Marine Raider bowie will blister my hand readily, I would have to avoid this strongly and it would greatly effect my work rate. The Battle Mistress performs at a much higher level, this means my physical output will be much lower using it. The Battle Mistress is also much stronger/tougher so I am at a better ease of mind using it in case of accidental high stresses.
In short I would be able to do much more work with the same amount of physical energy expended with the Battle Mistress. My mindset would also be much improved as it is a tool I enjoy using as it performs highly and I would also be very secure in using it knowing that it can handle any stress that it is likely to encounter. There are other factors as well, such as its greater strength / toughness making it able to perform a wider variety of tasks.
-Cliff
There is more to survival than raw function.
For example, if I built a simple shelter with a Battle Mistress and A Marine Raider bowie(I have done so in the past) the activity would be very different with the two knives. The Battle Mistress is much more comfortable in hand while the Marine Raider bowie will blister my hand readily, I would have to avoid this strongly and it would greatly effect my work rate. The Battle Mistress performs at a much higher level, this means my physical output will be much lower using it. The Battle Mistress is also much stronger/tougher so I am at a better ease of mind using it in case of accidental high stresses.
In short I would be able to do much more work with the same amount of physical energy expended with the Battle Mistress. My mindset would also be much improved as it is a tool I enjoy using as it performs highly and I would also be very secure in using it knowing that it can handle any stress that it is likely to encounter. There are other factors as well, such as its greater strength / toughness making it able to perform a wider variety of tasks.
-Cliff
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As usual, I agree w/you and continue to learn from your postings! Obviously, a better knife will enable you to work more effectively and efficiently than a lesser knife -- I certainly didnt mean to suggest that the quality of the tool doesnt matter. My point simply is that there is no such thing as an objective best knife, much less for survival -- better and lesser are relative to each individual. Before deciding on a knife -- even before determining our possible environments -- one needs to assess ones own abilities, limits, preferences -- precisely what you do above. One needs to do that *before* buying a knife. Waiting till one gets chased by the Blair Witch is not the best time to learn that the Busse BM may feel too heavy or unwieldy.
I think were approaching the issue from two different angles. Instead of, Whats the best survival knife?, it may be more useful to ask: Whats the *worst* knife I could get by with during an emergency? What are the *minimal* specs I could work with? Once I figure that out, Ill know -- for MY skills/prefs --what to look for in an upgrade. A better knife cannot magically enable me do things which I couldnt do otherwise, it can only improve the performance Id get from a lesser knife.
For example, Im one of the lonely few who *prefers* smaller knives, ESPECIALLY for survival needs. I keep a Spec Plus Parachutist in my cars emergency pack. Meets all my minimum reqmts. W/a little ingenuity, I can do just about anything w/a small knife that I can do w/a bigger one; and most tasks are far easier and safer w/a shorter blade (w/decent belly and tip), anyway. (*Lots* more reasons for the case that shorter is better...)
So what would I want in an upgrade? More comfy handle, wider blade, lanyard hole. Sure, Id be happy w/a Battle Mistress, but for me, Busses Badger or Basic #5 would be more ideal. But the bottom line remains: if I cant make do w/the Parachutist, I wont fare any better w/the Badger.
Match your specs to YOUR abilities/wants, THEN choose accordingly!
(blah, blah, blah...)
Glen
I think were approaching the issue from two different angles. Instead of, Whats the best survival knife?, it may be more useful to ask: Whats the *worst* knife I could get by with during an emergency? What are the *minimal* specs I could work with? Once I figure that out, Ill know -- for MY skills/prefs --what to look for in an upgrade. A better knife cannot magically enable me do things which I couldnt do otherwise, it can only improve the performance Id get from a lesser knife.
For example, Im one of the lonely few who *prefers* smaller knives, ESPECIALLY for survival needs. I keep a Spec Plus Parachutist in my cars emergency pack. Meets all my minimum reqmts. W/a little ingenuity, I can do just about anything w/a small knife that I can do w/a bigger one; and most tasks are far easier and safer w/a shorter blade (w/decent belly and tip), anyway. (*Lots* more reasons for the case that shorter is better...)
So what would I want in an upgrade? More comfy handle, wider blade, lanyard hole. Sure, Id be happy w/a Battle Mistress, but for me, Busses Badger or Basic #5 would be more ideal. But the bottom line remains: if I cant make do w/the Parachutist, I wont fare any better w/the Badger.
Match your specs to YOUR abilities/wants, THEN choose accordingly!
(blah, blah, blah...)
Glen