Survival knives-- what is the point? (no pun intended)

Something worth pondering... "Survival" usually implies that you don't have a stash of everything you'd like to have on hand, and that you must make do with what you can carry or likely find. Before you pack up those high tech knives and hatchets, you might give some thought to the fact that after a couple weeks in the bush they aren't going to cut all that well and you're high tech sharpening system isn't in your pack.

Machetes and cheap knives are easily sharpened on rocks or with a file. A machete, with a little practice, can easily take down a 2-3" tree in a single whack and serve for most other needs as well. (I can still do a 2" tree without any trouble and I'm almost 60.) A small pocket knife can probably suffice for everything else. During the 18 months I was enjoying my tropical vacation courtesy of Uncle Sam, just those two items served me well. Ironically, in a serious "survival" situation, and if I really had to choose, I'd grab my Ontario Knife Company $20 machete over one of my own high tech bowies anyday.



------------------
Jerry Hossom
knifemaker
www.hossom.com


 
I would say that Mr. Matt Shade has the best grasp of the concept I am trying to express here. I have a tomahawk that is about 18 inches long, with a 1/4 inch thick blade athat weighs around a puond. It has a differentially tempered blade, so I know it will still hold quite an edge without becoming brittle. I have never been a huge fan of machetes and would gladly take an LTC kukri from CS because it doesn't have that flimsy, "if I try to hack too much the blade will shatter" feeling.

Granted it wouldn't be easy, but with the curve of my hawk I know I could skin an animal, probably better than you guys with bowies could, simply because of the belly that the hawk offers.

I think that if you want a true survival type knife, something like a CS Bush Ranger is in order. It is truly an all purpose blade, and in half the weight of a Trailmaster to boot.

Heck, a Bushman would also make an excellent knife because you can make it into a machete by attaching a handle to it.

But if I were thrown into the mix with only my hawk and my dad's Swisschamp, I would feel at least semi-prepared.

 
By the way, CS has anew 9 inch kukri that would seem to do many of the chopping duties of a haevy knife, but at only 1/8 inch thick should also handle well for fine work. I like kukris, and they seem to be a good "middle ground" between bowies and tomahawks.
 
Yeah, khukuris rock, who needs bowies.

On the otherhand, it's more a matter of skill, not tools that determines your survival.

An African Bushman could probably live well with nothing more sophisticated than a broken beer bottle.
 
SR- Your comment about frail machetes indicates to me that you have not tried a Barteaux.

Their Heavy Duty Models are quite sturdy, I they will set you back no more than $30.

------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

Talonite Info

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
I don't care. I like 'em because they're cool. Someday I'll have a Nordooh and one of Bagwell's fighting bowies and I'll probably never be in a situation where I couldn't make do with something smaller, but life is not about getting by with the least you can have . . . .
smile.gif
 
Ditto Marion. I'm not familiar with that brand, but in 18 months I never saw or heard of a machete breaking, and that was an infantry company of 180+ men using them a lot on some sizeable and tough wood. Secondly, the first thing you're going to do after you chop all that wood to cook the food you don't have, is to dig a splinter out of your finger. For that and a host of other important chores, it's really hard to beat a small multi-blade pocket knife. I'd probably opt for a Swiss Army Knife because all those neat little tools come in handy at times for a whole bunch of different things. But hey, that's just my opinion.

------------------
Jerry Hossom
knifemaker
www.hossom.com


 
Jerry -- I think I agree. I also have spent some time in the infantry and I have never heard of a machete breaking. They are, however, a pain to carry on LBE. Easier on a ruck.
 
To choose a survival knife, you must first decide what you will need to do with it. Here is my idea of the things I need and do not need a survival knife to do.

I need a knife that I can split wood with, to get at the dry heartwood of a dead tree if it is raining.

I need a knife I can clean the grime from under my fingernails with.

I can skin a rabbit without a knife, and don't expect a deer to fall into my lap, so I do not need a skinning knife.

I need a knife I can notch a fireboard and make a socket and a drill for a fire drill.

I need a knife small enough that I can whittle figure-4 deadfall triggers.

I need a knife with a soft enough blade I can sharpen it on a creak stone if I need to.

I need a knife with blade geometry such that I won't break the tip off if I dig with it.

I would like a knife with a high enough carbon content I can strike sparks off it with a piece of honest-to-gosh flint (As opposed to these 'flint' rods made of ferrocerium).

I would like a knife I can operate while wearing gloves, and substantial enough to hold readily in heavy mittens.

And I would like it to be a knife I can take camping, and do all of these things, and maybe lose it, and not worry about being unable to make my car insurance premium if I have to buy another one.

Now, at the moment, I have a number of knives, and none does all of these things. (None will strike sparks for me...). A Delica comes close, as does the issue 'bolt knife'. I would have a hard time carving deadfall triggers with a hatchet or 'hawk, but it would make camp chores so much easier... In the end, a tool for each task will always be better than one that does all of them. But if I am debating a 'survival' knife, then those are the things I want it to do.


Stryver

 
Depending on the survival type situation and probably the only one that crosses my mind now would be when I am alone bowhunting. In that case my CS Hawk, and CS Master Hunter. The other stuff I would have with me in my catquiver, broadhead arrows, extra strings, extra bh's, energy bars, rope, xtra judo points, and a flashlight. If I had to run and survive for whatever reason with my family, friends etc. My .45acp, .357mag(oldest son or daughter as my wife hates guns and is a pacifist), my CS Hawk(again), my Master Hunter(again), my SA-93 with 8-30 rd clips equipped with a Kobra site and one brick of ammo. For clothing my SwanDri Cammo. The BEST cammo in the world IMHO. thanks and keep'em sharp
 
Why do you guys want a swiss army knife for a survival situation? Those screwdrivers are useless if your not working on something with screws. don't get me wrong I carry a multi tool everyday but I wouldn't take it if I planned on being in a survival situation with minimal gear. I'd much rather have somehting heavier designed to cut, not to tighten screws. If you insist on it being a folder and not a small fixed blade wouldn't you be ebtter off with something like a buck 110 or an Endura?
As for machetes and knives being easier to sharpen I disagree there too. On a knife you rely on the angle of the cutting edge being A- the right angle and B- consistent. That wouldn't be real easy to get with any old rock you pick up. They don't always come out of the ground perfectly flat, definitely not from a creek. On a hatchet, its not a matter of putting a new angle on the edge or renewing one. The grind is already there, you just polish it down thinner to give it a fine edge.

------------------
Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
Matt,

Excellent question!

In the wilderness, I'm not likely to run into any screws, so I don't worry about the screwdriver too much on a SAK. Although it has worked quite well for all sorts of little things in the woods -- I just forget the label of "screwdriver" and my mind opens up to find many things to do with it. It is a great precision hide scraper, and bone scraper. The can opener is great for scoring materials, and the cap lifter can be used to pry things. The tweezers work just fine for small pesty splinters, and the toothpick can be used as part of a hairtrigger on a deadfall. The corkscrew can undo knots...

Mainly though, when in the wilds to survive, a SAK Rucksack's locking blade, saw, and awl will do (and HAS done) everything I need to make the other stuff for my survival:

Shelter
fireboard and bowdrill
clothing
cordage
containers for water
deadfall triggers (traps for food)
snoeshoes
bows
arrows
atlatl
axe
walking stick
sun compass (yes, out of wood)

Knife blade:
The blade is easy to resharpen and cuts superbly because of its profile. It doesn't rust -- it's amazingly rust resistant. The lock works well. It addresses all my whittling and food prep needs, including skinning.

Saw:
I can cut down many saplings for shelter needs, different length triggers, axe handles, notches in any wood for cordage, notches in arrow shafts for arrowheads, makeshift handles for makeshift knives...

Awl:
Replace buttons by making a bone button, drilling holes in it, and using natural cordage with the awl to sew it on, tent repair by sewing, drilling any kind of holes in wood, hides, and/or leather, drilling into the end of a piece of wood to make a handle for tools, bowls, cups, any drilling purposes that don't require a longer bit...

This is just a partial list. There are so many uses it boggles the mind. A SAK doesn't feel "sexy" as a knife until you have occasion to use it fully for survival -- then suddenly you want it with you always.

Get a locking blade model.

If you ever want to see expert demoes of this stuff with a SAK, get Ron Hood's Woodsmaster series. You will be convinced, I guarantee it. His website is at http://www.survival.com

Hope this helps...

Brian.

------------------
Brian Jones
Co-moderator
Wilderness & Survival Skills Forum
 
Main reason for SAK is that it is what I always carry for in town utility. I'm an engineer. I build things, dismantle things, and fix things a lot during the week. Having that SAK at all times saves me many trips to hunt down the tool box. Having an SAK means that I never have to leave it behind when I take a plane trip.

When I'm in the field I usually have some stuff with me from the civilized world that will need fixing and maintaining. A multitool would provide some pliers, but is generally not as good a knife (the main thing I want to have). Things that might need fixing are: packs, zippers, guns, canteens...

An SAK is enough knife for 90% of my needs--and I can always have it with me.
 
Traveling in Siberian Taiga (think North Canadian forests could be very similar) I would take with myself a medium sized axe (or a large hatchet) and reasonable sized (4-5" or near) fixed blade knife. BM Nimravus or Fallkniven F1 or S1 would be OK.
I can't to imagine the hacking of 10 inches (or more) thick dry pine with bowie knife... Even if it would be done I have some doubts about this knife ability to cut something more.
Completely different thing is tropical jungle with generally soft vegetation. Here machete is in place by all means!
Of course in extreme situation it's possible to chop with knife or to gut the killed animal with axe, but preparing myself to travel I would take both.


------------------
Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland
 
I wonder if any of the people who think a soft steel is better because you can sharpen it on a rock have ever found a rock that can sharpen a soft knife but can't sharpen a hard one. I can't think of any such rock or mineral.

Even if there is such a rock you're almost certainly going to use some form of quartz, which is hard enough to sharpen any steel.


------------------
-Cougar Allen :{)
--------------------------------------
This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
 
Cougar:

I can notice a difference in ease and time sharpening carbon steel vs. stainless (Yes, I know heat treatment makes at least as big a difference) on my sharpmaker. I would rather have to sharpen more often, for less time, if I could not put an exceptional edge on my blade. If I have a good, quality sharpening whatever, I will take the better blade retention, if I am using a smooth stone I found in a creek bed, I will take the easier sharpening.

Stryver, hoping that made sense.
 
OK.

There may be errors in this post, I am too tired to go back through it......

One can survive with anything, your mind is the first and most importatn tool.

That said, How many different styles of knives are there in America? Now multiply that by the rest of the world. The figure you come up with will be pretty big.

So, what works for me? Axe, Machete, 4 inch bladed knife, and a multi tool. No I don't need the screwdrivers in the woods, unless of course I need to maintain gear I took with me.

What works for you? I don't know, but if it works, then all the more power to you.

I like what I like because it works for me, that may change....

But I will say this......

The Axe and Hatchet have a very bad reputation, but historically they have been carried fanatically, the American Pioneer carried a belt axe, consistently. The writers of the past, when writing about their time in the wilderness almost always speak of an axe or hatchet or tomahawk. And yes, one could do it all with a 'hawk, one could also do it all with a Bowie. Or a Kukri or a Barong or a Golock or a Parang but in America we have a cultural bias towards a pattern we like to think is ours, of course it is not, it is the Saxons, the blade was called a Scramsaxe.

So use what you like.

I like to carry a range of tools, if I am in a hardwood forest, a machete can cut down saplings, clear small limbs from trees, deal with brambles and other non-hardwood vegetation, and it also can act as a big knife to quarter up and animals, dig with, etcetera.

The bias against machetes is another that needs to be looked at, many of us want to buy the big name, fill your pants knives, but indigenous people the world over are proving that you can get it done with a machete.

And if you are looking at machetes, I would reccomend the Barteaux's, they are very nice. Allen just put a new edge on mine, and you can shave with them.

------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

Talonite Information and Resource Page, including other cobalt materials.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top