survival rust inhibitor

A few years ago, I lost my Opinel n°9.
Years later, I found it in our bacterial decomposition pile in our garden. (don't know the right name for it)
The blade was in good shape ... the wooden handle was not.

Totally different from my experiences with Opinels. I think they are really good knives for the money and I used to regularly give them to a bunch of florists / floral artists. I say floral artists because these folk were putting on major exhibitions at hotels in central London and doing the kinda displays one sees in the Harrods halls – so, part gardening and a lot of what is rather more like stage design or set dressing not just a bunch of flowers for some forgotten granny type thing. The knives worked really well for the most part. Some of them looked after them better than others, and even the ones I'd gone to the effort to modify, patina, and all that jazz were not treated especially gently. Many of them would rust or the handles swell, or both. I gave them a jar with a bunch of oil on a j-cloth to wipe them over figuring woman, baby oil, and tool should have some good affinity. Not so. Good little knives but from my perspective Opinels do need pampering to stay on their A game.
 
I think use will keep your blades rust free.. I've used carbon blades almost exclusively for the past 3 years.. Rain. snow, blood etc... Juts wash 'em off and dry them good and put them away..they stain (meaning the darken and blue a bit) but as a coastal dweller I can say rust has not been a major issue... in a situation such as the one you mentioned I would be more likely to expire decades before my knife did.
 
G'day Chris


I take it you spend a lot of time in and around saltwater? :D



Kind regards
Mick

G'day Mick

Lived on the coast all my life except the past 3 years, and an axe has always been my main tool ;) Besides, I know you love carbon 'cause of that GB mini you have (I'm jealous), but can you imagine how much it would cost if it were made of stainless :eek:

It's a non-issue, a fillet knife barely needs the edge retention of a tin can, so I don't need to spend good money on a modern stainless. I guess I should have specified I meant for hard use like carving some of these eucalypts we have around here. I can carve until my arm gets sore and the knife is still good to go, so I can't see myself spending extra on a quality stainless. For my budget, getting a carbon steel knife that suits my needs gives me a far better quality knife than a stainless knife of the same price range.

But the very fine edge of a knife rusting away isn't going to make any difference to surviving or not surviving. I'm the first to admit that a carbon blade at shaving sharpness will lose its hair-popping-ness in short order in a salt environment, but it'll still be much sharper than the knives most people use. If someone thinks having a blade with a little rust will stop them surviving, I doubt they have the mindset to survive anyway. (That's not directed at you Mick, just an observation).

Besides, I love the fact that my opinel and a piece of quartz can strike sparks to light charcloth. A 'survival' technique that I'd like to keep.

But to each their own. If you like stainless, go for it, I just don't see it as a necessity.

Cheers

Chris
 
I think this thread has gotten a little off topic. Regardless of WHY the OP chooses to use a carbon blade, the question is, does he need to worry about rust in a SURVIVAL situation, and if so what is the best thing to use.

In a Survival situation, not your everyday "but I like my knife to look purty" situation, the fact that the knife may rust or start looking dirty and ugly, is irrelevant. In a survival situation, a carbon blade will remain usable for years, even decades without needing to worry about rust. Not to say that it won't rust, but it won't rust to the point of not being usable. As long as there is steel attached to a handle, it can be sharpened.
 
Oil from sunflower seeds was used as both a lube and protectant because it didn't freeze in extreme cold like animal-based, petroleum-based or synthetic oils. I would imagine that you could render oils from nuts if ever in a subsistence situation.

Personally, I've carried knives and other gear throughout SE Asia, where the humidity constantly exposes your tools to moisture, and never had anything turn to "powder", just gave them a wipe down with a clean cloth whenever possible. Rust? Sure, a little bit, but nothing that can't be handled by regular care and use.

I've seen the tools that farmers and hill people carry on a daily basis for real use, parangs, bolos, axes, etc. and they get used over decades until there's nothing left to re-sharpen.
 
Why would I want to pay extra money for a modern stainless when 1095 is more than enough? I know the knife companies want me to... It's all about the money, function isn't a factor.

how do you figure?:confused:a fallkniven f1 is the same price as a rat 3 and less than a rat 4 and in my experience,holds an edge longer,wont have problems with rust,is just as easy to sharpen and due to more sophisticated design(i.e. lamination) is much stronger.
 
Rust prevention is going to be WAY down your list of priorities in a true survival situation. The idea of decent cutlery steel (either carbon or stainless) turning useless quickly is bunk. I'm in the "wipe it down, maybe rub some grease off your nose if you're that worried about it" camp. If you have or can scrounge something to keep the edge itself maintained, you're going to be just fine.

I would be a lot more concerned about something with moving parts and/or high pressures involved, like guns. But if you have a gun and ammo, hopefully you packed in some gun oil and a cleaning kit too.

What if your knife does show some rust?

Sand.
 
IMO the whole rust thing is/was hugely blown out of proportion by knife companies when they wanted to SELL their new stainless knives. Why would I want to pay extra money for a modern stainless when 1095 is more than enough?

This sounds like late 1950's and 1960's thinking, and at that time had some validity. Now there are so many good quality, reasonably priced stainless offerings it just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I just haven't compared costs of basic stainless to carbon enough.
 
Stricly for survival. If you notice some Rust on your knife. Walk to the nearest tree and just rube the spot of rust on the tree untill its gone. That and using the knife for daily chores would be more then enough to keep the knife rust free. You are in a survival mode so i dont expect you to have any oils and soaps to wash the knife. If i had enough animal fat to rub on the knife, guess what??? im going to eat all the fat i can. Now If i could get some ice cream while lost for a week in the woods. I would be a happy man, and wont care if my knife has some rust on the blade.
 
I suppose I should have clarified what I meant by in and around saltwater.

I didn't mean living on the coast. I actually meant using a knife in saltwater like when opening oysters from the rocks, like wading sand flats for hours at a time whilst fishing, like wading out a bit to cast when Beach fishing, like using your knife as a dive knife. All of which I use my knives for when I'm at the coast :D



Kind regards
Mick
 
I think this thread has gotten a little off topic. Regardless of WHY the OP chooses to use a carbon blade, the question is, does he need to worry about rust in a SURVIVAL situation, and if so what is the best thing to use.

In a Survival situation, not your everyday "but I like my knife to look purty" situation, the fact that the knife may rust or start looking dirty and ugly, is irrelevant. In a survival situation, a carbon blade will remain usable for years, even decades without needing to worry about rust. Not to say that it won't rust, but it won't rust to the point of not being usable. As long as there is steel attached to a handle, it can be sharpened.

I agree that there has been a little bit of thread drift but I read that drift differently to you. If one wanted to be terse I suppose any mention of capitalizing on foreknowledge and selecting something that doesn't behave like that is off topic. That said, if good amount of avoiding a potential survival being a survival situation is preparedness based on foreknowledge it isn't that far wide of the mark no matter what kit we are considering.

The other aspect of drift I really can't get with. If we are equally terse here the question is simply; “rust happens with these, that's a shit thing, what can we do to slow it down?”. Whilst there is certainly truth in the comments that assert one could still get use from that a well corroded knife regardless, to me that misses the point entirely. Of course that is true. If my boots start to degrade I'm still going to get an environmental advantage right down to the point where there is little left but the soles tied to my feet with string. Same kind of mentality means the sensible person is going to exploit the properties of things regardless of how pristine they are. No doubt about that whatsoever. Every post tantamount to the you can still get some use from that rusty knife in extreme circumstances accords with that. If I'd said it I'd call it an exercise in stating the obvious. The thing is though, beyond all that malarky, a fundamental question exists – bit of kit X, in this case a knife, is going to degrade, what can I do to retard that? To my mind that is a good question as it involves taking some kind of control of the situation. I believe that mentality, the what can I do about it, and the taking control, the mastery, is central to increasing the likeliness of a positive outcome. The responses that go something like “don't worry about it, it's the least of your problems”, yada yada are all very passive behaviors to me. I just can skate with that. I may well be able to get useful life from all sorts of bits of kit at any point up 'till I drive it into the ground, but meantime I'll be exerting a bunch of effort into maximizing the item's optimal life. It's about having control and a positive mental attitude. Carpe Noctem.
 
how do you figure?:confused:a fallkniven f1 is the same price as a rat 3 and less than a rat 4 and in my experience,holds an edge longer,wont have problems with rust,is just as easy to sharpen and due to more sophisticated design(i.e. lamination) is much stronger.

I don't want to spend that much on a knife. I'm talking more of old hickories and opinels etc. I've compared them to the Bucks etc of a similar (sometimes more expensive) price and the bucks lose. Stainless moras are okay, but you need a diamond stone if you want to sharpen them and not be at it for ever. Carbon steel on the other hand just takes a whet stone and a leather bench. Definitely an advantage in a survival situation.

EDIT: Sorry for diverting the OP. I think it's clear that I care very little about rust and have never had a problem with it. For me the best thing if you don't want it to rust and you've lost your oil, is first, keep it dry. And second, stay away from leather sheaths.
 
I agree that there has been a little bit of thread drift but I read that drift differently to you. If one wanted to be terse I suppose any mention of capitalizing on foreknowledge and selecting something that doesn't behave like that is off topic. That said, if good amount of avoiding a potential survival being a survival situation is preparedness based on foreknowledge it isn't that far wide of the mark no matter what kit we are considering.

The other aspect of drift I really can't get with. If we are equally terse here the question is simply; “rust happens with these, that's a shit thing, what can we do to slow it down?”. Whilst there is certainly truth in the comments that assert one could still get use from that a well corroded knife regardless, to me that misses the point entirely. Of course that is true. If my boots start to degrade I'm still going to get an environmental advantage right down to the point where there is little left but the soles tied to my feet with string. Same kind of mentality means the sensible person is going to exploit the properties of things regardless of how pristine they are. No doubt about that whatsoever. Every post tantamount to the you can still get some use from that rusty knife in extreme circumstances accords with that. If I'd said it I'd call it an exercise in stating the obvious. The thing is though, beyond all that malarky, a fundamental question exists – bit of kit X, in this case a knife, is going to degrade, what can I do to retard that? To my mind that is a good question as it involves taking some kind of control of the situation. I believe that mentality, the what can I do about it, and the taking control, the mastery, is central to increasing the likeliness of a positive outcome. The responses that go something like “don't worry about it, it's the least of your problems”, yada yada are all very passive behaviors to me. I just can skate with that. I may well be able to get useful life from all sorts of bits of kit at any point up 'till I drive it into the ground, but meantime I'll be exerting a bunch of effort into maximizing the item's optimal life. It's about having control and a positive mental attitude. Carpe Noctem.


Wow, that post was a bit of a difficult read. Although, after re-reading it, I think I get the gist of what you are saying.

I'm just saying that, IMO, if you find yourself in a long term survival situation, there will be a long list of priorities you will have in order for you to stay alive, then secondly to maintain some kind of comfort, at the bottom of which is worrying about keeping your knife oiled. Building shelter, finding/purifying water, and finding food will require a good deal of time and energy, of which the later will likely be in short supply.
Again, IMO, caring for your knife, other than sharpening it, would be a waste of precious resources, especially in the first days/weeks of surviving. I understand your point about having control and a positive mental attitude, but I just think there will be plenty of things that you will need to control that are of much higher priority than some orange spots on your knife.

It just seems there is a good deal of people who think that a carbon steel knife that is not oiled immediately after use, will turn into an unrecognizable, unusable pile of rust in short order. My posts are simply trying to dispel that myth. Of course, if you decide to carry a stainless steel knife to completely avoid rust or the worry of it, then that's great, and your choice to make, but IMO off topic, if only slightly, of what the OP is worried about.
Not that it's a terrible sin to go OT, I do it myself all the time, I just wanted to try and remind everyone of the original question. It seems sometimes people start replying to the replies of others, like we are doing now, and it soon becomes a debate between SS vs. Carbon, and the OP only gets 2 or 3 replies directed at his question when many of the other posters would have great thoughts on the topic if they weren't distracted by the rabbit trails. So, my second post was just an attempt to redirect the thread, as I am interested to hear more thoughts on the topic, even if my mind is already made up. But, I digress.

Not sure what your are trying to say in your first paragraph, it seems perhaps you had a problem with me capitalizing a few words? If so, it was only to emphasize a word which, IMO, is the key word that defines the topic. Otherwise, without that one word, the topic becomes much broader (or is it "more broad?").

Dang, why in the heck did you have to go and make me make a long winded post. I hate having to articulate what I'm trying to say with more than 3 sentences...
Sorry OP for the big giant post that has nothing to do with your original question. I've said everything I have to say, I'll quit polluting your thread now, lol.
 
Didn't read all the posts so I'm sorry if this was said. If rust ever occurs, just rub it with a smooth river rock.
 
In regards to the OP, I haven't had any rusting problems with any carbon knives I've used. I wouldn't worry about it.

However, I know for a fact I couldn't collect the 2000+ calories per day I'd need to survive for months or years. I've tried. So rust wouldn't be so much of an issue for me anyway.
 
stingray4540, hey

Sorry that was garbled. Two problems at my end. a] I'm in an altered state so I need to quit typing asap. b] 'puter has a some quirk that isn't allowing me to quote or edit mah posts. dunno why, couldn't respond to Hollowdweller earlier either. Both'll come good but for now the most sensible thing for me to do is to patch up mah post as best I can and go do something else:

blah remix -

I agree that there has been a little bit of thread drift but I read that drift differently to you. If one wanted to be terse I suppose any mention of capitalizing on foreknowledge and selecting something that doesn't behave like that is off topic. That said, if good amount of avoiding a potential survival situation being a survival situation is preparedness based on foreknowledge it isn't that far wide of the mark no matter what kit we are considering.

The other aspect of drift I really can't get with. If we are equally terse here the question is simply; “rust happens with these, that's a shit thing, what can we do to slow it down?”. Whilst there is certainly truth in the comments that assert one could still get use from that a well corroded knife regardless, to me that misses the point entirely. Of course that is true. If my boots start to degrade I'm still going to get an environmental advantage right down to the point where there is little left but the soles tied to my feet with string. Same kind of mentality means the sensible person is going to exploit the properties of things regardless of how pristine they are. No doubt about that whatsoever. Every post tantamount to the you can still get some use from that rusty knife in extreme circumstances accords with that. If I'd said it I'd call it an exercise in stating the obvious. The thing is though, beyond all that malarky, a fundamental question exists – bit of kit X, in this case a knife, is going to degrade, what can I do to retard that? To my mind that is a good question as it involves taking some kind of control of the situation. I believe that mentality, the what can I do about it, and the taking control, the mastery, is central to increasing the likeliness of a positive outcome. The responses that go something like “don't worry about it, it's the least of your problems”, yada yada are all very passive behaviors to me. I just can not skate with that. I may well be able to get useful life from all sorts of bits of kit at any point up 'till I drive it into the ground, but meantime I'll be exerting a bunch of effort into maximizing the item's optimal life. It's about having control and a positive mental attitude. Carpe Noctem.

Sorry about that. Ideally I'll come back to this and do better justice to what you said. :)
 
I seem to recall stories about soldiers burnishing their bayonets with sewing needles to keep them from rusting. Does anybody know what I'm talking about?
 
Old time guns and tools were " rust blued" or " browned"
Purdy shotguns of England still uses that method.
In the days of old the 'smiths would wipe the steel with urine and card it off with coarse cloth....wool or hemp, or, much later, fine steel wool.
It would be a decent system to use on tools post apocalypse.
I restored a Purdy for a customer about 20 years ago. I said piss on it:confused: and used phosphoric acid as an oxidant instead if urine. One smells as bad as the other.:barf:
2 applications per day and carding with steel wool for about 3 weeks yields a beautiful, and very corrosion resistant, blue. Not the black like on todays garbage firearms.
Google up rust bluing.
EDIT
When carding with steel wool it must be oil free. Either wash in tet or naptha or buy bronze wool from Brownells.
 
I seem to recall stories about soldiers burnishing their bayonets with sewing needles to keep them from rusting. Does anybody know what I'm talking about?
Burnishing seals the pores of the steel. That's why many of these knife makers need to finish the job and polish the hell out of carbon steel.
The forge finish is cute but not very practical.
If gloss is a concern ? Parkerize it.It's easy and cheap to do.That's the ultimate.........if you're stuck on hi carbon steels.
Knife makers should get on the program with bluing and parkerizing their carbon creations.
 
In a TRUE SHTF situation there are bigger fish to fry than worrying about rust. One rule that is often overlooked is: Expend the least amount of energy possible to accomplish a given task. In my estimation, (all things equal) a carbon steel blade will require less effort to sharpen in a field expedient manner than say 440C. In a pinch a river stone will put a "usable" edge on a knife quicker than would be required for stainless facsimile. After all the 'edge' is what does the work..the remainder of the blade is, well, not a concern. Give me a CS blade every time in a similar situation.
 
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