Survival, we toot our horns, but.........

Bushman, you get an Atta'Boy from me. You done good. Wish I could say with confidence I'd have done the same thing you did in the same situation. It's a hard world we've built and we've become hard to live in it. Sometimes it's just hard to see the forrest for the trees.

Very neat idea to add urban survival to the Survival Skills part of the forum. I think it'd be much harder to survive in an urban enviroment than out in the boonies.
 
B-man, I am sure this will come around, and you will be rewardind for your actions in some way.

This is kind of a cool thing that happened to me:
The way I see it, me and mine have it pretty good this year compared to some, so I am trying to do a little more than in the past. I bought a present for Toys-For-Tots when I was christmas shopping this year. A couple days after I put it in the bin, I got a letter and check from church, I had won a raffle. I was thinking IZULA, but when I went to the bank to cash the check, a donation box for the local domestic violence shelter caught my eye, and I decided to buy $75 worth of diapers and baby wipes and donate them. I am feeling pretty good about this whole thing...maybe I'll come into some more unexpected money and I can do something good with that too!
 
right on bushman... great post....:thumbup: i bet it's bloody cold in your neck of the woods...:o

a lot of folks are making some really good points, in regards to the homless.. there is a lot of poverty in the world these days and it'a a shame... but i think everybody has a choice to make their own decisions.... some are addicts, drunks, ill or just plain don't care.. we have folks arriving here on a daily, mainly younger, who want to be a part of the homless scene... living in the woods in paradise..
i know that not everyone of these folks chose their own path and i know that some of them are good people.. my hat goes off to them.....

unfortunately around here the vast majority of the homless are either drunks or meth addicts... they have no care in the world other than their next fix/drink.. they're extremly rude to the sheeple and/or general population... the thing that pisses me off the most, is that they do not care for their surroundings around them... they treat the earth like it was theirs to dispose of... and that simply will not due...:thumbdn:

i think that Santa Cruz county goes above and beyond to help the homless and people in need.... but we also get nothing in return from them...my wife used to work for the City of Santa Cruz.. part of her job was cleaning up homless encampments... the stories that she would tell me were just gut wrenching...:mad: the things that these folks did to the area's they were staying/living in were just rediculous..

sorry for the rant.... this is a touchy subject for me....
 
I'm kind of testing my classmates by having a Food Bank drive party at my house. I'm interested in seeing how much each person brings, and my money is on the single mother of three to be the most generous. I have not told them but I plan on matching what everybody brings.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Hey man, BTDT.

Had my legs kicked out from under me and had no choice but to do the hobo thing. Had to live hard and work 3 jobs for a while to get back into it, but I made it out.

But, take it from someone who's been on that side of the fence: a good 90% of the people there are there because they want to be, NOT because they are mentally ill or dealt a bad hand. I include addicts in the "want to be" category. The most common response I got when I asked people why they didn't have a job like me and work their way out was:" Why would I want to do that? I work, I have to pay taxes. This way I'm free, I don't have to pay taxes, I get food and clothes for free. Why should I work?"

To me, those kind are the scum of the earth. They're also the kind that will rob other homeless people. I had 3 try to rob me at once, and I had to survive if you know what I mean.

They hated guys like me because we made money, and spent it on things like haircuts and laundry. I even learned which shelters to go to during the day (didn't sleep there) that let you come in at certain times to take a shower. I kept clean and neat, and the people I worked with didn't even know I was homeless until afterward when they asked why I was so happy to move into a cheap apartment. The scumbags of the homeless population thought I was too clean and neat, so i must be having too easy a time, and felt they needed to make it harder from time to time.

That's why I tend to be hard ont he guys that seem to want "the end of the world as we know it" to happen. I HAD all of civilized society's safety nets to fall on and it still sucked hind tit, and these guys think they'll have a cake walk with none of that? Stupid.

No thank you, I'd rather go camping and practice skills knowing I have a heated/air conditioned home with a warm shower and hot food waiting.
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curious as to yer location :cool:

here in vancouver we have a higher than normal number of mentally ill homeless, put into the community when Riverview Hospital closed down (but most ended up on the streets) . Suddenly you put 500 M.I. persons into the community with no support and limited access to their medications and a daily schedule, and you get a lot that fall thru the cracks....rents in the DTES of vancouver are high, even for a simple room. The mentally ill get preyed on by the slumlords and dealers, and now you have dual diagnoses persons trying to fend.
 
My Grandmothers Brother came home from Korea a changed man. He spent his last days just like Jim. Sometimes when the police found him passed out on the street they would take him to jail just so he would have a warm place to sleep. He finally died in an allyway from the cold. (alchohol lowers your blood temp.)Bless you for helping Jim out. I feel that with the present economy there will be a lot more homeless people living in the streets. California is almost broke. Don`t know what will happen to the state hospitals.
 
I don't buy the addiction is a mental illness excuse. And I've quit giving to the local shelter, it's over ran with meth addicts and drunks. My Dad headed up the local VFW for years and they do a good job of going out and finding families that are struggling for whatever reason. We still give to them. We donate to the Wounded Warrior Project, too. I started after I had a night class with a guy younger than I am that had been disabled serving in Iraq. He needs a little help, but he's going to school to be able to provide a good life for himself and his family. Those guys are survivors, as are the guys in the VFW. They suck it up and keep going, contributing to society and not letting anything beat them down. There is a program locally that finds employment for mentally disabled adults. Along with the pay check from bagging groceries or working with lawn services, and SSI, most live semi-independent lives. Lots of those folks have the same story as Jim. There are legitimate reasons for some of these folks, but I think the guy sacking up and working two crappy jobs and not crying is a hell of a lot tougher than some guy burying his issues in a bottle till he passes out in an alley. The only ones I feel a lot of pity for are the kids in these situations, and the elderly that have lost their faculties and gotten f-ed by some POS and end up on the streets.
 
I remember reading Tom Brown spent many years learning "urban survival" from homeless people on the streets. If it came to it, I would much prefer living in the hills than on the street. That seems a million times harder.
The saddest part is that most of them make choices in their lives that lead them to that life.
 
Thanks Bushman, it made me think, i'm one of those guys that purposly goes to the woods to practice survival skills and i forget how tuff the streets can be. Regardless of how someone gets there, if we would all just help out one person the world would be a better place, so look around you and help someone, I'm going to. Happy holidays. G.M
 
When i worked water delivery (Culligan water) in Edmonton i had the north side (essentially the slums) i had to park in back alleys a lot and seen quite a few homeless people. anytime they would ask for money i refused, explaining to them that i would much rather buy them food or give them water. knowing that any money given would most likely end up in some drug dealers hands. not too many homeless people in this small town, but i will never refuse help to anyone who needs it.

I have been to Vancouver and did see the masses of homeless people, made Edmonton look very mild in comparison

The worst part about being homeless is that most people don't even notice them, there a lesser human being and an annoyance, Bushman5 you are a very compassionate man and a credit to the human race.
 
Bushman5 said:
curious as to yer location :cool:
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Florida. And this was by no means a big city. I have a feeling in a large city, the demographic would be much closer to what you describe.


As far as other mentioning don't give money, that's spot on. Most people who want money aren't buying food, it's for their next fix. If you happen to run across a person who's really treying to make it, they'll be happy to have you buy them food, or a blanket rather than give them cash. If the person gets agitated because you don't want to give cash, it's because they want to buy booze, smokes or drugs.

Sharp_newbie also makes a good point. The homeless are second class human beings. People treat welfare leeches (not everyone on welfare is a leech -- just to clarify) better than the homeless. Even if they couldn't tell you were homeless because you look, dress and smell just like a "normal" human, as soon as they find out, you're instantly a pariah, and most of your former "friends" won't talk to you anymore and such. That's probably the worst part of it. Even a decent person gets bitter after being treated like that. Possibly how I became such a misanthropist.
 
Bushman5,
Thanks for sharing your story and thank you for bringing some kindness and understanding into the world.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Even a decent person gets bitter after being treated like that.
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The entire topic is very interesting because:

a. Our time away from civilization allows us to practice W&SS
b. The purpose of W&SS is to sustain ourselves until we can return to civilization - or -

c. agents of civilization come and rescue us

Thus, the mentally ill and the elective outlaws can't or won't function within the normal expectations of the local civil populace.

The common denominator is the relation / separation from civilization.
 
That is a wonderful thing to do. I don't know of ny homeless around me, but down about an hour away where my brother livesm there is a homelss guy in a good city. My brother saves all his cans and bottles and gives them to him, and gives him the occasional $5-10 when he can. I also try to give him as much as I can when I visit. Everyone else treats him like he doesn't belong. They have no right to do so.
 
Bushman, thank you for what you did, and thank you for making me stop and think about what "survival" really is, and means.

Let me start by saying this please, my next few comments will be directed at me as well, and I mean no offense to anyone, I just think we are ignoring a big part of what Bushman was trying to say, maybe becuase it's uncomfortable to us, or we would like to think it's not the case.....so please don't take it personal, it's not meant that way....his point was very good food for thought, at least as it relates to me.

Imagine with me: we pull up to the trailhead in our SUV, strap four knives on our person in various places, and a couple in each pocket, make sure we have our comfort(s) pack, double check to make sure our new hiking boots are laced up good, zip up our nice warm coat....oh wait, don't let me forget the digital camera....and off we go. Walk a couple of miles, make a few fuzz sticks and maybe a fire for a good photo op, as we stand there with our belly hanging over our belts:D....hike back out, warm up the truck while we unload all our survival gear....get in feeling great that we "survived" this outing, stop by Starbucks on the way home before we eat our nice warm dinner, then we jump in a nice hot shower to help us relax for the evening and keep us from getting too sore form our "survival outing".......

Okay, I know there are some exagerations here, and I've poked some fun, but most of it is not too far from the truth in one form or another.

The point I gathered and learned from in Bushman's comments is: do we "really" know what surviving is, and in most cases the answer is a flat out NO, and we shouldn't lull ourselves into believing we do. Twelve knives, and the ability to start fire, does not warrant a survival situation.

In my mind, unless you've been in a war situation, lived in a third world country, or truly been faced with emergency survival....like the guy (sorry can't remember his name) that was stuck in a canyon and had to cut off part of his arm......then most of us are truly clueless.......think about it, don't get mad, just think it over please.

Now please know that I also know that there are folks on this forum that have lived true survival situations, some similar to what I've mentioned.....and you do have an understanding, and I respect and appreciate that....but for the vast majority of us, true survival is alien to us.

Hate me, send nasty repsonses if you want to, I hope you won't, because I mean no harm, in fact I am trying to do good and raise our awareness.....remember, I'm talking to myself as much, or more, than anyone else. Bushman's comments were spot on, but we've tried to ignore the gist of his note, and focused more on how to deal with homeless folks, which is good don't get me wrong, but not the whole point.

Also, I hope everyone caught what Bryan said was the way his Grandma lived, which was to help everyone you can, because you never know if one might be an Angel that is checking and reporting on how you treat your fellow man....if we all adopted that way of thinking we would be in much better shape, and I can tell you from personal experience, that Bryan sure has!

I agree with some that have suggested maybe we should start an Urban Survival forum, I think it would be a great idea. Don't mean to sound like an alarmist, but I'm thinking our way of living will be changing dramatically a lot sooner, than later.

Anyway, please don't be offended by my thoughts, I don't post much because I've seen how some folks can get very passionate about their opinion of someone elses opinion!HA

Have a great Christmas everyone.

Thundermoon
 
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