a fire going ? i must be missing something ? is this about getting stranded at sea? or getting to shore afer a ship sinking? if you make it to shore then yes a fire would be very important . if your at sea i dont think anybody will thank you for lighting a fire in their liferaft lol
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Surviving a ship sinking?
- Thread starter Will Power
- Start date
a fire going ? i must be missing something ? is this about getting stranded at sea? or getting to shore afer a ship sinking? if you make it to shore then yes a fire would be very important . if your at sea i dont think anybody will thank you for lighting a fire in their liferaft lol
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
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In the event of a ferry sinking, a recue will be coming. Having commercial fished for years I would recommend a Jacket with inflatable bladder. I have a Stormy Seas. It has a CO2 cylinder and a tube for manuel inflation. I would have a quality flashlite and whistle attached. A small fanny type pack with a small folder with half serated blade (quick line cutter) a length of good strong monofiliment line and a few hooks, a waterproof container with matches and some firestarter. Extra batteries for flash light. I like the lightstick on a string idea. Hard candy, (most chocolate bars are full of filler). A waterbottle on the fannypack belt. If you got the bucks I would have one of these as it is compact and makes usable water manually.
SURVIVOR 06 http://www.tecnicomar.it/katadyn_eng.htm
The smallest hand-operated emergency desalinator in the world
• Compact and lightweight
• Recommended for emergency liferafts and individual
survival kits
Technology: Reverse Osmosis
Salt Rejection: 98,4 % average (95,3 % minimum)
Capacity: 0.9 lt/hour +/- 15 %
Weight: 1,2 kg ca.
DIMENSIONS: 13 x 21 x 7 cm
SURVIVOR 06 http://www.tecnicomar.it/katadyn_eng.htm
The smallest hand-operated emergency desalinator in the world
• Compact and lightweight
• Recommended for emergency liferafts and individual
survival kits
Technology: Reverse Osmosis
Salt Rejection: 98,4 % average (95,3 % minimum)
Capacity: 0.9 lt/hour +/- 15 %
Weight: 1,2 kg ca.
DIMENSIONS: 13 x 21 x 7 cm
If I was a frequent ferry passenger, the Stormy Seas jacket would be an excellent piece of apparel to wear. Very nice, thanks for the recommendation.
BTW, I recommend against getting the water activated automatic inflation option. If a ferry capsizes and you need to swim underwater to get outside the hull, you don't want the flotation device you're wearing to activate on its own. It could end up trapping you inside wherever "up" happens to be.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 284
I think the best answer so far is Gollnick's. The best answer to almost any survival situation nowadays is a EPIRB with GPS. This is the aquatic version of the one I have on order:
http://www.acrelectronics.com/microfix/microfix.htm
And even though it has been mentioned already, I want to lend my vote to a reverse osmosis filter. As mentioned before, Katadyn makes a number of small, relatively inexpensive ones:
http://products.katadyn.com/brands-and-products/produkte/Desalinators.html
About half of what I learned in my water survival courses in the Navy has been been made obsolete by the relatively recent availability of portable osmotic filters. You can last weeks with fresh water - only days without. And there are a lot of desert islands out there without fresh water.
http://www.acrelectronics.com/microfix/microfix.htm
And even though it has been mentioned already, I want to lend my vote to a reverse osmosis filter. As mentioned before, Katadyn makes a number of small, relatively inexpensive ones:
http://products.katadyn.com/brands-and-products/produkte/Desalinators.html
About half of what I learned in my water survival courses in the Navy has been been made obsolete by the relatively recent availability of portable osmotic filters. You can last weeks with fresh water - only days without. And there are a lot of desert islands out there without fresh water.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 284
Oh, and I while exploring the Katadyn web site I found another essential survival item - sort of a companion to a pump desalinating filter:
http://products.katadyn.com/brands-and-products/produkte/Getraenkepulver-1.html
http://products.katadyn.com/brands-and-products/produkte/Getraenkepulver-1.html
For applications such as a ferry capsizing, long term water desalination should not be an issue. A rescue ship (probably quite a few) will be along shortly. Your primary objective is to get clear of the hull, stay afloat and maintain your core temperature. Anything beyond that is optional.
Well if I was preppped for a capsizing of an aquatic vessel, which I most likely would not be, then I would choose these items to jump on the raft with me:
Satellite Phone
Flare gun w/ at least 5 flares
Fishing kit
Potable water
Poncho
GPS
Spyderco Salt
And plastic bags for the electronics
Satellite Phone
Flare gun w/ at least 5 flares
Fishing kit
Potable water
Poncho
GPS
Spyderco Salt
And plastic bags for the electronics
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2007
- Messages
- 1,236
The only information you are missing is that the only ferries I am ever on run through a gulf of islands. If I was on a ferry that sank, it would mean a short trip to an island and a wet wait for rescue.
All I need is a bit of heat once on shore!
Just add water :barf:
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- Sep 4, 2002
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- 2,177
It's been a while since I've done my Sea Survival (SOLAS) training so we'll see how good my memory is; A few points.
1) All standard life rafts come equipped will a full set of survival gear - EPIRB, water satchels, safety knife (for cutting painter lines etc), fishing gear, heliograph, first aid kit. Your EDC would not be popular in a life raft as there have been a few documented cases of the raft getting a puncture from pocket knives. One case I'm familiar with; the flotation pontoon for a helicopter that had ditched was punctured by a Buck 110 weilded by an airman trying to sever a painter line. I'd still like a leatherman or SAK though......
2) Even in summer - hypothermia is an issue if you are in the water for a few hours. If I was worried about a ship going down I'd take a wetsuit. Even a lightweight summer suit would make the difference between living and dying and it would roll up pretty small in your pack. Failing that a set of polypropelene thermal underwear - they still work ok when wet, kayakers use them all the time.
3) LED head torch. I always have this near me on oil rigs. One so I can sneak to the loo in the middle of the night without waking cabin mates. But otherwise for emergencies.
4) Swim goggles. One bloke I know who survived a ditching always has swim goggles handy since then. Oily, foamy water effects visibility and long hours in the drink can fry your eyes.
5) Pay attention to emergency drills. Even in hotels, not just ships, I always do a 'dry run' to the emergency exits and back. As Elen says - you need to know how to get out fast.
1) All standard life rafts come equipped will a full set of survival gear - EPIRB, water satchels, safety knife (for cutting painter lines etc), fishing gear, heliograph, first aid kit. Your EDC would not be popular in a life raft as there have been a few documented cases of the raft getting a puncture from pocket knives. One case I'm familiar with; the flotation pontoon for a helicopter that had ditched was punctured by a Buck 110 weilded by an airman trying to sever a painter line. I'd still like a leatherman or SAK though......
2) Even in summer - hypothermia is an issue if you are in the water for a few hours. If I was worried about a ship going down I'd take a wetsuit. Even a lightweight summer suit would make the difference between living and dying and it would roll up pretty small in your pack. Failing that a set of polypropelene thermal underwear - they still work ok when wet, kayakers use them all the time.
3) LED head torch. I always have this near me on oil rigs. One so I can sneak to the loo in the middle of the night without waking cabin mates. But otherwise for emergencies.
4) Swim goggles. One bloke I know who survived a ditching always has swim goggles handy since then. Oily, foamy water effects visibility and long hours in the drink can fry your eyes.
5) Pay attention to emergency drills. Even in hotels, not just ships, I always do a 'dry run' to the emergency exits and back. As Elen says - you need to know how to get out fast.
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Good point about the goggles Ming65. The water around a sinking ship is bound to be awash with oil&pollutants:barf:
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- Feb 10, 2006
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i am from a maritime academy so i can safely say that the life boat or lift raft will hold enough rations and provisions to keep the people on it alive untill rescuers arrive. they got flares,signal mirriors,whistle etc etc. they also have food and water and even a set of fishing tackle. they also have thermal protective aid which is like a space blanket.
But for me if you ask what to bring on myself i would say most of the things said above and one hammer. Many might think why a hammer and i say just in case i need to break the wall down to escape or to break down a lock.
But for me if you ask what to bring on myself i would say most of the things said above and one hammer. Many might think why a hammer and i say just in case i need to break the wall down to escape or to break down a lock.
None of the great suggestions mentioned are more critical than speed getting outside the hull. Whatever you decide to take, it needs to be compact enough that you can have it on your person all the time. No going to your car or back to the cabin. Once the ship starts to roll, get out.
#1 is don't go down with the ship.
#1 is don't go down with the ship.
Every emergency is different. When waking to the alarm I would quickly make some observations. Is the ship listing, is there water in the cabin, do I smell smoke, is the power still on? If I think there is a bit of time, such as the ship being level I would water up at the sink or water cooler and drink as much as possible. Grab my clothes, knife flashlite, water bottle and get out of the ship. If things look bad, like having a bad list, or smoke, I would grab a jacket, knife and maybe a light and just run for my life.
This isn't meant to be a flame at all but a lot of the replies are way way of course to the point of madness.
The original question was what emergency kit to take on a RORO ferry in case of capsize in summer. Ask yourself what is the survival situation?
The first priority is you have to get off the ship before it sinks or pulls you down after it. Period. You don't stop and change into a drysuit or wetsuit, or attempt haul such kit through a dozen stairwells filled with hundreds of panicking people. You get out. As soon as you find your cabin check the escape routes and memorise them so you can negotiate them quickly and in the dark and when up is no longer up.
A large commercial ferry goes down. They can go down real fast. But they get off a mayday which includes location, or are missed pretty quickly. They are invariably on busy lanes and every ship in the vicinity will assist. Any period in the water is unlikely to be long term. Unless you are very close to shore the second priority should be to keep alive and in the same place and await rescue. Find a life raft and stay with other survivors. In a life raft you are a) more likely to be spotted by the rescue services, b) less likely to drown and c) going to stay warmer.
Being in the water for 24 hours in this scenario is pretty much worse case. You don't need emergency food or water, compasses (if you can't see land for f's sake stay where you are), binoculars, firesteels or knives. All of this will make you less likely to get off the ship in the first place and make treading water harder.
The #1 piece of kit would be, as posted already a GPS based Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacon (EPIRB) or Personal Locator Beacon (PLB).
The #2 piece of kit I would carry would be a small emergency strobe. An orange smoke flare would be nice but consider that you are unlikely to get through customs with explosives (knives could be problematic also).
The #3 piece of kit would be a decent life jacket. But they have to be able to turn you face up and you'd have to have hefty paranoia to buy one for a short trip and carry it around the rest of your holiday. A more practical solution would be to ensure you know where the ship issued life jackets are to grab on the way out.
Practical and functional clothing goes without saying but I wouldn't pack anything else.
Re. shock: your body is used to the effects of gravity on your blood, and resisting it all pooling in your legs. When you are immersed in water the hydrostatic pressure counters the effects of gravity which results in an increased core blood volume. Your body counters this by telling your kidneys to process more urine. You get a similar effect when you lay down and go to sleep and so always need to pee in the morning even though you've not been drinking. The problem is that the body will stabilize the core blood volume to account for the hydrostatic pressure, and then you will be rescued, plucked from the water, lose the hydrostatic pressure, blood flows back to the legs and BAM: that is when you do get major shock. There were a lot of rescued divers killed like this before it was figured out by the RAF, they would be fine in the water and dead by the time the winch got them to the helicopter. These days they winch rescued divers on stretchers to stop it happening but I don't know what it is like in other countries and if you are plucked out by a passing fisherman they probably won't know so expect shock and keep horizontal with legs raised.
The original question was what emergency kit to take on a RORO ferry in case of capsize in summer. Ask yourself what is the survival situation?
The first priority is you have to get off the ship before it sinks or pulls you down after it. Period. You don't stop and change into a drysuit or wetsuit, or attempt haul such kit through a dozen stairwells filled with hundreds of panicking people. You get out. As soon as you find your cabin check the escape routes and memorise them so you can negotiate them quickly and in the dark and when up is no longer up.
A large commercial ferry goes down. They can go down real fast. But they get off a mayday which includes location, or are missed pretty quickly. They are invariably on busy lanes and every ship in the vicinity will assist. Any period in the water is unlikely to be long term. Unless you are very close to shore the second priority should be to keep alive and in the same place and await rescue. Find a life raft and stay with other survivors. In a life raft you are a) more likely to be spotted by the rescue services, b) less likely to drown and c) going to stay warmer.
Being in the water for 24 hours in this scenario is pretty much worse case. You don't need emergency food or water, compasses (if you can't see land for f's sake stay where you are), binoculars, firesteels or knives. All of this will make you less likely to get off the ship in the first place and make treading water harder.
The #1 piece of kit would be, as posted already a GPS based Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacon (EPIRB) or Personal Locator Beacon (PLB).
The #2 piece of kit I would carry would be a small emergency strobe. An orange smoke flare would be nice but consider that you are unlikely to get through customs with explosives (knives could be problematic also).
The #3 piece of kit would be a decent life jacket. But they have to be able to turn you face up and you'd have to have hefty paranoia to buy one for a short trip and carry it around the rest of your holiday. A more practical solution would be to ensure you know where the ship issued life jackets are to grab on the way out.
Practical and functional clothing goes without saying but I wouldn't pack anything else.
No no no. Shock is a sudden drop in the blood flow to vital organs. When you are cold the external capillaries close down to direct blood to the body core and maintain vital organs. That's why fingers and toes go cold first. Alcohol makes you feel better but causes peripheral capillary dilation, drawing blood away from the core and worsening the effects of shock and hypothermia. Drinking spirits could kill you.
Re. shock: your body is used to the effects of gravity on your blood, and resisting it all pooling in your legs. When you are immersed in water the hydrostatic pressure counters the effects of gravity which results in an increased core blood volume. Your body counters this by telling your kidneys to process more urine. You get a similar effect when you lay down and go to sleep and so always need to pee in the morning even though you've not been drinking. The problem is that the body will stabilize the core blood volume to account for the hydrostatic pressure, and then you will be rescued, plucked from the water, lose the hydrostatic pressure, blood flows back to the legs and BAM: that is when you do get major shock. There were a lot of rescued divers killed like this before it was figured out by the RAF, they would be fine in the water and dead by the time the winch got them to the helicopter. These days they winch rescued divers on stretchers to stop it happening but I don't know what it is like in other countries and if you are plucked out by a passing fisherman they probably won't know so expect shock and keep horizontal with legs raised.
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- May 25, 2007
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small fixed blade or SAK & knowing the fact that I know how to swim /stay afloat ,alot of people that travel that way can't swim and you must get away from the other passengers due to panic and your PSK or whatever does you no good if people in a panic are trying to drown you, survival insticts get away or get drowned
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- Mar 29, 2007
- Messages
- 5,846
okay, I wouldn't change my basic day sailing kit much for a ferry trip. This is NOT our family ship sinking kit from our cruising days, that was a lot more interesting, but what I take with me on a daysail on a cal 20 or something.
life vest- ANY vest is better than none, and I go for a comfort vest, one of the myriad of modern ones that wears like a vest/jacket. I wouldn't *wear* it everywhere like a paranoiac on a ferry, though I would on small craft.
in the pockets/pouches/straps of the vest I'll have a small 2.5 inch blade diving knife, a SAK marine model or something similar (a marlinspike or fid is really really good to have, and a locking blade, but so is a can opener)
basic first aid kit, mine are generally benadryl, gauze, bunch of tape, iodine, some alcohol pads, and that's most of it. butterflies and suture gear sometimes.
I carry a combo flashlight/emergency strobe. Any marine shop will have them in various sizes. Since I have a led redlight in my pocket all the time, that's enough. (speaking of pockets, a lighter and other carry psk stuff is always there, too)
On water, my phone is in a pelican. period. I lost a phone in the pacific learning that lesson. Cell phone reception at sea can be amazing.
Food isn't the most important bit if you are on a "waiting on rescue" situation, and if you aren't, pack a real kit. Some chocolate and such is good for morale, but I'm not going to stress it a lot. Water, well. I have a liter on me most times, and always on a boat. (stuff falls overboard, so it's always attached).
In a ferry situation I'd probably put 5 half full nalgenes on the flotation vest. Half full? yep. think about it.
Warmth depends on environmental factors. Assuming we aren't in the Bering Sea or North atlantic or something, My dry bag would be available, and I tend to wear wool - even if it's thin warm weather wool- on a boat. Dry bag has a heavy sweater, wool pants, 2 sets of socks, gloves, watchcap, and a baklava. SOMETIMES, if there's a possibility of doing wet activities I'll have an emergency inflation floatation device with my wetsuit, mask, snorkel, and a larger diving knife. That's not my "regular" dry bag, but it's fun to go snorkeling and I once fixed a boat on chesapeake bay because I had it....
Not much different from my regular overnight bag, discounting the wetsuit gear.
simple and practical for the situation.
life vest- ANY vest is better than none, and I go for a comfort vest, one of the myriad of modern ones that wears like a vest/jacket. I wouldn't *wear* it everywhere like a paranoiac on a ferry, though I would on small craft.
in the pockets/pouches/straps of the vest I'll have a small 2.5 inch blade diving knife, a SAK marine model or something similar (a marlinspike or fid is really really good to have, and a locking blade, but so is a can opener)
basic first aid kit, mine are generally benadryl, gauze, bunch of tape, iodine, some alcohol pads, and that's most of it. butterflies and suture gear sometimes.
I carry a combo flashlight/emergency strobe. Any marine shop will have them in various sizes. Since I have a led redlight in my pocket all the time, that's enough. (speaking of pockets, a lighter and other carry psk stuff is always there, too)
On water, my phone is in a pelican. period. I lost a phone in the pacific learning that lesson. Cell phone reception at sea can be amazing.
Food isn't the most important bit if you are on a "waiting on rescue" situation, and if you aren't, pack a real kit. Some chocolate and such is good for morale, but I'm not going to stress it a lot. Water, well. I have a liter on me most times, and always on a boat. (stuff falls overboard, so it's always attached).
In a ferry situation I'd probably put 5 half full nalgenes on the flotation vest. Half full? yep. think about it.
Warmth depends on environmental factors. Assuming we aren't in the Bering Sea or North atlantic or something, My dry bag would be available, and I tend to wear wool - even if it's thin warm weather wool- on a boat. Dry bag has a heavy sweater, wool pants, 2 sets of socks, gloves, watchcap, and a baklava. SOMETIMES, if there's a possibility of doing wet activities I'll have an emergency inflation floatation device with my wetsuit, mask, snorkel, and a larger diving knife. That's not my "regular" dry bag, but it's fun to go snorkeling and I once fixed a boat on chesapeake bay because I had it....
Not much different from my regular overnight bag, discounting the wetsuit gear.
simple and practical for the situation.
Two thoughts.
1. Les' show where the first raft deflated in minutes, and the "survival bag" in the second raft had water in it. I would not want to depend on any items stored in the rafts.
2. Security check point. What would I be allowed to carry onto a ship with cabins? A knife? Flares?
It seems to me, the clothes I am wearing would be the most important survival tool once off the ship if rescue is only hours away. Getting off the ship seems to be a matter of luck beyond having an escape plan and a backup escape plan.
1. Les' show where the first raft deflated in minutes, and the "survival bag" in the second raft had water in it. I would not want to depend on any items stored in the rafts.
2. Security check point. What would I be allowed to carry onto a ship with cabins? A knife? Flares?
It seems to me, the clothes I am wearing would be the most important survival tool once off the ship if rescue is only hours away. Getting off the ship seems to be a matter of luck beyond having an escape plan and a backup escape plan.
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- May 19, 2005
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After reading this thread, my first and most important preparation would be to figure out how to ride on one of those ships so I'm not stuck in a cabin. Hell, I'll sleep on deck if I have to. Why get yourself blocked below decks in a cabin if you can help it?
If the waters are anything less than bathtub warm, I'd want a dry suit with me with all the signaling trimmings. Not only will it keep you from going hypothermic, but it'll also keep you afloat. I think I can fit one in a large backpack. But you'd better be able to get into the thing in under a minute and a half (that's how long they give you on the crab boats in the Bering Sea if you want to be rated to work those boats). Make sure it's bright orange or red for visibility.
Other than that, just give me what people around here talk about putting into a PSK and I'll be good. Maybe add some water. That's it. Nothing more is required. Either they'll get you in a couple of hours or chances are good that you'll be dead no matter what gear you bring.
If the waters are anything less than bathtub warm, I'd want a dry suit with me with all the signaling trimmings. Not only will it keep you from going hypothermic, but it'll also keep you afloat. I think I can fit one in a large backpack. But you'd better be able to get into the thing in under a minute and a half (that's how long they give you on the crab boats in the Bering Sea if you want to be rated to work those boats). Make sure it's bright orange or red for visibility.
Other than that, just give me what people around here talk about putting into a PSK and I'll be good. Maybe add some water. That's it. Nothing more is required. Either they'll get you in a couple of hours or chances are good that you'll be dead no matter what gear you bring.