I have heard many football coaches do that very thing. I have done it before running summer camp for kids. Just tastes like watered down gatoraid but works great.
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Surviving High Temperatures and Sun
- Thread starter k_estela
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I have heard many football coaches do that very thing. I have done it before running summer camp for kids. Just tastes like watered down gatoraid but works great.
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Thats what we do for firefighter rehab when they are fightin a blaze. Hydrates much better that way.
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Exposure to the sun has long term effects too. 35+ years ago in Saigon I would swim at noon and then sleep on the pool deck for 45min to an hour. I still have part of the tan line. In the past year I've had two pre-cancerous spots taken off my arm. Long sleeves, sunscreen, etc. And you can burn near water even if you're in the shade. The sun reflects off the water. That's how lifeguards get tans even though they sit under those big umbrellas. Be safe. Richard
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Great thread.
Is there any problem giving diluted sports drink to a dog? I wouldn't think so, but...? I added some powdered drink mix to my hiking kit this year, to add to water I filter along the way, but if it's a problem for dogs, I'll need to add a separate bottle for Millie for plain water.
Is there any problem giving diluted sports drink to a dog? I wouldn't think so, but...? I added some powdered drink mix to my hiking kit this year, to add to water I filter along the way, but if it's a problem for dogs, I'll need to add a separate bottle for Millie for plain water.
Codger_64
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Codger-64, If you were working on my pool, I bet I would be swimming in it by now!
2Door
I've already built four this year, and start another next week. 10-14 working days average on each one.
Alternate drinks? Sure. Mix fruit flavored jello powder with water. Or use pedeolyte. My salt intake goes way up in the summer. My clothes and hats form white salt rings.
I worry about workers who drink a lot but never urinate. If urine is dark yellow, you might be dehydrated. I have a son in law who doesn't sweat. I have to watch him very closely for overheating. Me, I sweat like a pig in the heat, but I stay cooler than most. I keep a small white dishtowel in my back pocket (Bob the mechanic with a grease rag) to wipe sweat, pick up hot tools, and to wet and lay across the back of my neck when I get too hot (water, not pee).
When a person keels over in the dirt, call a bambulance pronto. Elevate their feet slightly. Pour room temp water over their wrists or apply cool (not cold), damp towels. Don't try to force cold liquids or douse them in cool water. You can send them into a shock that can cause the heart to stop beating. Don't jostle or move them unless they are in a life threatening place. Give them shade, even if only by standing over them. Let the EMT's do what needs to be done once you have taken care of basics.
Codger
NOTE: I am not an EMT and do not have that training.
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Much good information in this thread, including "When a person keels over in the dirt, call a bambulance pronto.". Not sure what a bambulance is, but if Codger says it's a good idea, I'm all for it (Just bustin' your chops, bud 
)
And we should never forget the obvious - one hot summer I was canoeing with my buddy, my daughter and her friend. I noticed that my daughter and her friend were looking a little ragged and I asked them what the problem was. They replied they didn't feel too good to which I responded with a couple paddle fulls of lake water (splashed them) and it was almost instant recovery! (Did I mention that I hate hot weather?
)
Doc
)And we should never forget the obvious - one hot summer I was canoeing with my buddy, my daughter and her friend. I noticed that my daughter and her friend were looking a little ragged and I asked them what the problem was. They replied they didn't feel too good to which I responded with a couple paddle fulls of lake water (splashed them) and it was almost instant recovery! (Did I mention that I hate hot weather?
)Doc
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I agree - eating a good diet of fruits and veggies is probably one of the more commonly overlooked, but most effective, ways to beat the heat. And if your diet isn't what it should be, or you're just doing extreme stuff in extreme heat, this stuff has worked great for me: http://eletewater.com
or just go swimming!
"I have a son in law who doesn't sweat. I have to watch him very closely for overheating. Me, I sweat like a pig in the heat, but I stay cooler than most."
well, sweat is your body's way of beating the heat...provides moisture to be evaporated, cooling you down. if you don't sweat, it is hard for you to lose heat unless you provide water to evaporate (wetting clothes, not drying off after swimming, etc)
stay wet! evaporation is a great thing.
well, sweat is your body's way of beating the heat...provides moisture to be evaporated, cooling you down. if you don't sweat, it is hard for you to lose heat unless you provide water to evaporate (wetting clothes, not drying off after swimming, etc)
stay wet! evaporation is a great thing.
Exactly that's why hot and wet climate (swamps, jungle...) is dangerous: air is already fully loaded with water: that means sweat can't evaporate, but your body doesn't understand it and keeps sweating (guess this is regulated in the long term by some adaptation)
The fact that sweat doesn't evaporate means:
* you stay wet (meaning being incomfortable, possible skin problems in long term, etc...)
* it doesn't help cooling you down
rhino
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I'm someone that does not do well in the heat regardless of how well I hydrate. We just had some brutal weather for the USPSA Indiana Section pistol match just north of Louisville. The "cool" day was 94 and the day I shot (Friday) it was close to 100. We had plenty of water. We also had some shade, but the sun reflecting from the gravel still made it like an oven. Naturally the humidity was too high for any kind of evaporative cooling to be of much benefit.
I kept slamming water to keep hydrated and ate some snacks (MRE peanut butter!) for both energy and electrolytes. The primary thing I did was minimize my activity. When I was not shooting, I sat in the shade. Fortunately my squad took good care of me, handling all the target pasting, etc. since I would have died or come close to it had I spend the entire day walking around in that heat pasting and resetting steel targets.
As far as electrolyte replacement goes, most of the commercially available drinks seem to have too much sodium, and not enough potassium, calcium, and magnesium. The thing that works best for me (aside from eatint) is milk, preferably skim, but 2% will work too. It's got adequate sodium, and a lot of potassium and calcium. A combination of a lot of water and an occasional cup/bottle of nonfat milk works well.
I kept slamming water to keep hydrated and ate some snacks (MRE peanut butter!) for both energy and electrolytes. The primary thing I did was minimize my activity. When I was not shooting, I sat in the shade. Fortunately my squad took good care of me, handling all the target pasting, etc. since I would have died or come close to it had I spend the entire day walking around in that heat pasting and resetting steel targets.
As far as electrolyte replacement goes, most of the commercially available drinks seem to have too much sodium, and not enough potassium, calcium, and magnesium. The thing that works best for me (aside from eatint) is milk, preferably skim, but 2% will work too. It's got adequate sodium, and a lot of potassium and calcium. A combination of a lot of water and an occasional cup/bottle of nonfat milk works well.
Brian Jones
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Okay, this discussion is alright, but to effectively put these suggestions to use, we need to put it in context, and examine the principles of heat loss and heat gain. We're talking about the survival "category" of shelter/personal protection, right? So, let look at the 5 principles. Otherwise, we are all offering band-aid fixes to various symptoms without addressing the causes, and therefore working to eliminate those causes through prevention and/or avoidance. They are all really the same principle, just different strata of operation.
So, what are the 5 heat gain/loss principles?
1. Heat loss/gain through conduction: the colder body draws warmth from the warmer body. In Ron Hood's Shelter survival video, he sits down on a snow covered log. And he describes how his "fanny" very quickly begins to get colder. The snow covered log is stealing the heat from his body. That is conduction. How can we make this work in hot temps to conduct excess heat away from ourselves?
2. Heat loss/gain through convection: this is wind chill. The temp outside is 32 deg F, but the weather report says "feels like 20 deg F." Well, that's kind of misleading. That means when the wind blows, the temp against your skin "feels like 20 deg F." Well, that's because the temp at your skin surface really IS 20 deg F, not 32 deg F of the air. Different surfaces in a particular environment will be different temps even when the air temp is, like my example here, 32 deg F. The moving air (wind), especially when colder than your body temp, sucks away and removes the heat you generate. That's why we love a cool breeze on hot days. When the air temp gets above 98.6 deg F (our body temp), then it feels like a hot air blow dryer on our skin. Our bodies, at 98.6, absorb that warmer air, and we feel it. What can we do in hot environments to keep convection of hot air from making things more miserable? How can we cool the air around us to create a "reverse wind" that is cooler than our body temp, even though the actual air temp outside us is above 98.6?
3. Heat loss/gain through radiation: Our body heat constantly radiates out and up into the atmosphere above us. That's why we have tarps over us, blankets around us, sweaters and coats, heavy socks, sleeping bags in colder climes. It's to trap the body warmth and retain it, so it doesn't get lost and rise up into the atmosphere. When that happens in cold weather, we freeze. When we retain too much heat in hot weather, we need to examine how this principle can be used to release the body heat rather than retain too much.
4. Heat loss gain through respiration: In colder climes, when we breathe in, we breath in cold air, which cools the tissue in our mouths, throats, lungs, etc. When we exhale, we breathe out moisture. In hot temps, we breathe in hot air, and exhale moisture. So, we increase our body heat inside and simultaneously lose precious hydration with every exhalation. How do we apply this principle to prevent heat gain in hot temps?
5. Heat loss/gain through perspiration: Others have already tsalked about sweat evaporating to cool the skin. In the desert and arid regions, you don't feel as hot as when you are in humid regions, because the sweat instantly evaporates before it wets your skin or clothes. Dry heat can feel more tolerable, but it dehydrates you and kills you more easily because you instinctively think "I'm comfortable, I'm not sweating, so this ain't so hot." In fact, it is the stealth killer in the desert, because you are losing even more moisture from your body even faster than in humid climes. So, how can we make this work to our advantage?
Without considering these principles, we cannot come up with solutions, nor can we come up with prevention - maybe yes to certain degrees, but overall, if you understand these principles, you'll know how to improvise to protect yourself in hot and/or cold extremes, by simply doing whatever it takes to interrupt the processes. In the cold times, you improvise to interrupt and minimize heat loss, and in hot climes, you improvise to interrupt and counteract heat gain.
So, what are the 5 heat gain/loss principles?
1. Heat loss/gain through conduction: the colder body draws warmth from the warmer body. In Ron Hood's Shelter survival video, he sits down on a snow covered log. And he describes how his "fanny" very quickly begins to get colder. The snow covered log is stealing the heat from his body. That is conduction. How can we make this work in hot temps to conduct excess heat away from ourselves?
2. Heat loss/gain through convection: this is wind chill. The temp outside is 32 deg F, but the weather report says "feels like 20 deg F." Well, that's kind of misleading. That means when the wind blows, the temp against your skin "feels like 20 deg F." Well, that's because the temp at your skin surface really IS 20 deg F, not 32 deg F of the air. Different surfaces in a particular environment will be different temps even when the air temp is, like my example here, 32 deg F. The moving air (wind), especially when colder than your body temp, sucks away and removes the heat you generate. That's why we love a cool breeze on hot days. When the air temp gets above 98.6 deg F (our body temp), then it feels like a hot air blow dryer on our skin. Our bodies, at 98.6, absorb that warmer air, and we feel it. What can we do in hot environments to keep convection of hot air from making things more miserable? How can we cool the air around us to create a "reverse wind" that is cooler than our body temp, even though the actual air temp outside us is above 98.6?
3. Heat loss/gain through radiation: Our body heat constantly radiates out and up into the atmosphere above us. That's why we have tarps over us, blankets around us, sweaters and coats, heavy socks, sleeping bags in colder climes. It's to trap the body warmth and retain it, so it doesn't get lost and rise up into the atmosphere. When that happens in cold weather, we freeze. When we retain too much heat in hot weather, we need to examine how this principle can be used to release the body heat rather than retain too much.
4. Heat loss gain through respiration: In colder climes, when we breathe in, we breath in cold air, which cools the tissue in our mouths, throats, lungs, etc. When we exhale, we breathe out moisture. In hot temps, we breathe in hot air, and exhale moisture. So, we increase our body heat inside and simultaneously lose precious hydration with every exhalation. How do we apply this principle to prevent heat gain in hot temps?
5. Heat loss/gain through perspiration: Others have already tsalked about sweat evaporating to cool the skin. In the desert and arid regions, you don't feel as hot as when you are in humid regions, because the sweat instantly evaporates before it wets your skin or clothes. Dry heat can feel more tolerable, but it dehydrates you and kills you more easily because you instinctively think "I'm comfortable, I'm not sweating, so this ain't so hot." In fact, it is the stealth killer in the desert, because you are losing even more moisture from your body even faster than in humid climes. So, how can we make this work to our advantage?
Without considering these principles, we cannot come up with solutions, nor can we come up with prevention - maybe yes to certain degrees, but overall, if you understand these principles, you'll know how to improvise to protect yourself in hot and/or cold extremes, by simply doing whatever it takes to interrupt the processes. In the cold times, you improvise to interrupt and minimize heat loss, and in hot climes, you improvise to interrupt and counteract heat gain.
I've been planning a three day backpacking trip in South Florida for the first week in August. I'll have to pack all my water with a cache halfway through. Yes, I know. So I have been following this with more than a little interest as well as doing outside research. There is alot of good, real world info here. This thread at Zombiehunters (Thanks to whoever pointed me to that site) has some good info too.
I guess my big question is "How much water to bring?" I have read 1 liter per mile, 1 liter per hour, 1 gallon per day. I know it depends on temp, humidity, activity level, personal physiology etc. Even taking it slow with plenty of breaks, I figure I will be sweating heavily all day. Right now I am planning on 1.5 to 2 gallons per day. That has me carrying up to 25 pounds of water at the start of the trip, but there is no way around it. The water there is too contaminated to drink (even treated/filtered IMO) unless it is an emergency.
I guess my big question is "How much water to bring?" I have read 1 liter per mile, 1 liter per hour, 1 gallon per day. I know it depends on temp, humidity, activity level, personal physiology etc. Even taking it slow with plenty of breaks, I figure I will be sweating heavily all day. Right now I am planning on 1.5 to 2 gallons per day. That has me carrying up to 25 pounds of water at the start of the trip, but there is no way around it. The water there is too contaminated to drink (even treated/filtered IMO) unless it is an emergency.
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Great post brian, you really hit the nail on the head!!
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Excellent post Brian.....
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As a FL dweller, I can say I will EASILY go through 2 gallons of water per day on a summer hike, with minimal weight carried in gear. Heavy load? Add at least a gallon. Personally, I can't see an extended hike without procuring water on the way. I use two 2-quart canteens and two 1-QT canteens. I keep the 1-QTs on my belt and drink from them. Whent hey are empty, I refill them from one of the 2-qt canteens. Then I fill it with water (take coffee filters to cover the mouths to keep the big stuff out) and then add two Katadyn MicroPur tablets. By the time I'm through the two 1-qts and refilled them from the second 2 qt, the water int he first is purified.
If the water is really bad, I'd take a filter, put a coffee-filter type filter over the intake hose, filter water into the canteen, then add the tablets.
I will be on the West half of the Ocean to Lake trail. There is a superfund site nine miles north of the trailhead and an aircraft manufacturing facility (that has been there since the sixties and probably should be a superfund site) north of my route. No rivers and no sheet flow in the marsh. I'll filter and treat water if I have to, but it's not my first choice. The coffee filter is a good idea.
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I'm a pretty big guy (6'3", 240-255 lbs), so I tend to overheat if I'm not careful. Here are a few of my strategies for very hot weather:
Clothing
Columbia Bora Bora Booney Hat with white ventilation mesh:
Shirt: lightweight poly Ts (white) or Handerchief weight tailored cotton shirt (white). Leave the shirtail out.
Shorts: Light tan poly shorts.
Underwear: poly boxers
Hydration
Half Gatorade/half water solution chilled with lots of ice cubes. Will stay cool most of the day in a good hydration pack. Drink frequently but sparingly.
Footwear
Trail shoes rather than boots depending on terrain.
Shelter
Ultralight tarp or poncho that can be rigged for sun protection
Clothing
Columbia Bora Bora Booney Hat with white ventilation mesh:
Shirt: lightweight poly Ts (white) or Handerchief weight tailored cotton shirt (white). Leave the shirtail out.
Shorts: Light tan poly shorts.
Underwear: poly boxers
Hydration
Half Gatorade/half water solution chilled with lots of ice cubes. Will stay cool most of the day in a good hydration pack. Drink frequently but sparingly.
Footwear
Trail shoes rather than boots depending on terrain.
Shelter
Ultralight tarp or poncho that can be rigged for sun protection
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A person cannot survive on the sun.
Best thing I've found is Smart Water looks like regular bottled water but has eletrolytes mixed in when I get dehydrated I can feel it rehydrating my body.
I forgot all about that stuff. I used to drink it for hangovers...