Surviving on making knives alone...?

[Hankins]

Surviving on making knives alone...?
How many of you are able to make a living at this?
One income with around $2000 a month fixed expences minus the cost of materials.

 

[unky_gumbi]

I am just starting out and have only sold a couple of knives, but I don't think I could ever live on the income of knife making alone.

 

[raylaconico]

I'm a full time knifemaker. I've been the only income for my household since my wife got layed off 2 years ago. I make an average of $3,000 per month gross (sometimes more, sometimes less). It can be a little stressful but with the economy the way it is, I can't complain.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

I didn't vote in the poll, but you have to be an excellent businessman to make a living working for yourself-especially making knives.

 

[Salem Straub]

I mostly make knives and do some blacksmithing, but pick up a little work if it comes my way- sometimes it's quicker money and is needed. My wife works almost full time, we both pay the bills but unfortunately a fair amount of her income goes to gas to get her to work. Damn 4Runner.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

None of the choices in the poll fit my situation, so I thought I would explain. Knifemaking is a HARD way to make a living, especially if it's your sole income source.
What must be realized is that custom knives are a luxury item...therefore, our income as knifemakers is based on others' disposable income. If people either do not have disposable income, or perceive they do not, then it's unlikely that the custom knifemaker will see any of it.

OK, that being said, I have been at this for almost 25 years now, with most of those years being full time military, so at that time, knifemaking was part time for me. I retired 8 years ago, and became a full time knifemaker overnight. Were it not for my military retirement coming in every month, and a wife with a good job, there is no doubt that I would be working another job outside the shop.
I've been around far too long, and listened to many of the "top end" makers talk about how they had to take out a loan to get to a show, or something similar. Very often people see the "glamor" and think it's a cake walk, but the reality is that most full time knifemakers, even those considered "top of the heap", live hand to mouth.

I always wince when a get a phone call or email for somebody telling me that they are going to quit their job and go full time into knifemaking. I recently had an individual call me, asking advice as to how big a loan he should take out in order to purchase all the tools he would need to be a full time knifemaker. When I asked him what his plan was for making the payments on a loan, his response was... "from all the knives I'll sell." He had no concept of this business, and how fickle it can be. I directed him to several other knifemakers that he should speak with....and get their opinions. He called back a couple of days later telling me that he was scraping the full time idea and staying with his "day job". WHEW! We managed to save one.

 

[Dan Pierson]

I have a full time job. Knife making is a hobby. I've hung around artists and craftspeople all my life and am married to one of them.

Any type of art or craft is a VERY hard way to make a living. I've known a few successful ones but far, far more who barely struggle to survive. As a major, successful
author once put it: "The only reason to write for a living is that it hurts far more not to."

 

[A C Richards]

I am in the same boat as Ed is. Though I have not been at this quite as long, 20 years now. I retired from the Navy in 1996. Once I got out I got a few jobs and went back to school on my rich Uncle (Sam). During my last tour I took an unaccompanied tour overseas to allow my wife to finish nursing school. She graduated one month before I retired she had a good job and has ever since. I do not make nearly enough to pay for much of anything at this point. If I can stay even I feel I am doing pretty good. If it were not for my retirement and disability pay I would also be working a day job. There are those who can make it only with knifemaking as their income . They are few and far between. I applaud them and the trials they go through.

 

[Robert Parsons]

I am just a hobbyist, and still giving most of my knives away because I am not happy with the grinds, or other things.

I agree, just like any other job, most are living hand to mouth.

Life is very short as we all know, so I have a go for it attitude.

Give it a go, and if it does not work, at least you tried.

 

[Gary Mulkey]

There's an old saying:

Q: How do you put a million dollars in the bank making knives?

A: Start with two million.

When trying to make a living with full-time knifemaking you have to understand that there with be both up & down times in sales. If you have to have a certain level of income every month, it's a tough road. I have done it full-time for 15 years and there were certainly some tough times (as well as good times). There were many years when I was on the road doing shows 3-4 weekends/month in order to keep the sales coming.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

I find it hard to imagine being able to pay all of my bills from knife income alone.

I approach knife making as something that I do for my own enjoyment and sense of satisfaction. If I make a bit of money, great. I'd have to sell a lot more knives to make a living.

 

[Rick Marchand]

It's a bit difficult to narrow it down to one of your choices. Some months, I make $800, others $2000-4000. I think my best month ever was $6000. I have also gone a couple months with nothing prior to a show. My wife has a steady income, so we use it to cover the mortgage/utilities/insurances... and mine pays for food, vacations, gas, clothes, etc...

We have lived off of her income alone and we've done it on mine. The only thing that keeps her working the "rat race" are the benefits (medical, drug plan)

Knives represent about 65% of my work... the other 35% is leatherwork and some wilderness living skills teaching. I actually think I could do better if I focussed on knives alone but I want to build on the other stuff and diversify even more.


Rick

 

[Sam Salvati]

Rick's got it! diversify~!

 

[Jack O'Neill]

your poll does not fit me either , I am retired on a small amount and get some funds from a sale of some property . The funds from the knife work helps to supplement the cost of living . But , I only put about 25-30 hours a week in the shop . Those that I know who are full time , put 18 hours a day in the shop . Does not sound like fun to me .

 

[Fletch Helical]

Any type of art or craft is a VERY hard way to make a living. I've known a few successful ones but far, far more who barely struggle to survive. As a major, successful
author once put it: "The only reason to write for a living is that it hurts far more not to."

I work and have yet to actually sell a knife, however I look at this like any kind of art. More often than not your work only becomes really valuable after you're dead . I think, with the exception of the hard core makers, most of us just love doing it, and with a little luck use what we make on sales to continue funding our habit on materials. Maybe once in a while come out a few bucks ahead. However when you think about what it costs for all the "toys" in this game (grinders, ovens, anvils, forges, belts, sandpaper, etc etc.) You're starting off most of the times way in a hole to begin with.

I'd be curious if anyone ever kept detailed enough records (which includes ALL the money spent on tools and material since they got in). To see how long it took just to offset that cost. I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here who have put in 10's of thousands on shop toys

 

[Rick Marchand]

Just a curious observation...

The guys who say you can't make a living on knives are some of (IMHO) the best makers around. I mean their work far surpasses mine in quality, detail and artistry. Perhaps there is a point where you put in more than you get out? Sometimes there is a sacrifice made in the struggle for perfection.

When I worked in tool and die, I remember there was a point where I was at a lower pay scale than some of my co-workers, yet my net income was more. It had to do with tax brackets, vacation pay, profit sharing and other stuff but guys with 10+ years on me were bringing home less.

I'm starting to think I don't want to get better. That is said with all due respect to the great makers here.

Rick

 

[james terrio]

Answering this honestly requires me to gulp down a large slice of humble pie. The short answer is, I can't meet all my obligations on knifework alone.

If it weren't for my woman having a steady income and my Dad (RIP) having left me a modest home with affordable payments, I would still be stuck in a hell-hole factory job that made me feel more bitter and empty every day.

I have poured every penny I ever saved into my shop and it's still very humble. I am not too proud to accept odd jobs driving nails, mowing lawns or slinging drinks to make ends meet.

I do honest work and I sleep well at night. I try not to think of my wage/hour because, honestly at that point I'd be "better off" tending bar.

I roll my own smokes and make my own wine; I prefer to repair or build what I need rather than spend money, and I keep a very low profile. I garden and get a chuckle out of eating better "produce" than the yuppies who pay ridiculous prices for it.

I'm scraping by on the skin of my teeth and I wouldn't trade it for a $100K/yr job in any office or factory, kissing butt to people I neither respect nor admire.

It's definitely not for everyone.

 

[Rick Marchand]

I'd be curious if anyone ever kept detailed enough records (which includes ALL the money spent on tools and material since they got in). To see how long it took just to offset that cost. I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here who have put in 10's of thousands on shop toys

My business is 3 years old... I have ALL my records... almost every penny accounted for.... but I have a dirty little secret. (not really but I like saying that.)

Our government has a program called the Self Employment Benefit (SEB) program. If your business proposal is accepted, you collect benefits (basically equal to Employment Insurance or "pogey" for you Yanks) during the first year of starting your business. You also have to attend self employment workshops, where they teach you about marketing/promotion, book keeping, business law, etc... It is all closely monitored to weed out the folks trying to cheat the system. Every month, your business is assessed and if they feel you aren't holding up your end of the bargan, you get the boot. Under the SEB program I was able to invest ALL the initial income back into my business for the first year. My start up costs were close to $10,000 and my SEB pay came out to about $18,500 the first year.... add to that the money I reinvested back in, and you get a damn good head start. Most businesses fail within the first year because you are basically paying for your start up costs. I was fortunate to learn about this program and tell everybody I know about it.

Rick

 

[Sam Salvati]

Hey Rick, you neglected to tell your buddy Sam about that program!!!!!

 

[Snody]

Great Thread
Really good posts..
Here is a video I made talking about this subject.
Much Respect from Texas..
[youtube]P26yxOFcgrQ[/youtube]