Swamp Rat Proudly Introduces The Bog Runner ........ Coming Sunday February 5, 2023 At 9PM Eastern

dogboye said:
If you talking to me, that's not my point. I'll agree with you, especially in the difference between 50100 and 52100. But that IS the point. SR-101 went away because they lost the ability to heat treat it. SR-101 is (I thought) 52100(B?) with special heat treatment. Now they are going to 50100(B?). Everything I can find shows, within my ability to understand, that 50100 and 52100 are heat treated the same. So... why the change to 50100?

It's all academic, but I wonder if it is because they lost the ability to do the special heat treatment on 52100 that made it SR-101, and between non-specially heat-treated 52100 and 50100, is 50100 the better performer for toughness? So that the problem isn't heat treating 52100, but heat treating any steel to the standards that made it SR-101.
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Only speaking in general that people tend to overthink the steel part of the equation. If everything else isn’t dialed in then it matters little in the end as it’s still a decent knife at best.

Busse has and always does come up with their own HT protocols so you cannot just go by what the industry uses in general.
 
Father & Son Traditional Sharpening said:
I’ve said it before and I will say it again, the steel and heat treat don’t tend to make as much difference as the overall design and geometry IMO. Most would be hard pressed to tell a substantial difference in steels even under careful scientific methods. The geometry on these Lab Rats is why you should buy one, period. They are thin enough where it counts and the inverse is also true regarding durability being sufficient.
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I understand what you mean, but steel composition can be important too. S7 steel is good for jackhammer bits, but not for a chef's knife or a surgeon's scalpel. The properties needed for a knife's use will dictate the steel used, along with heat treat and geometry. To your point, there's a reason a scalpel is not as thick as a Battle Mistress. ;)

For me, corrosion resistance is important along with edge holding, and reasonable toughness. Under fairly good temperature and humidity control, I have had no problems with rust on uncoated SR101 (52100). I have an old INFI SHSHII that was stored outside in a crude shelter prior to me owning it, and it had only minor rust on the uncoated steel. I love the Bog Runner design, but I wish it was made with Elmax for the corrosion resistance instead of 50100B.
 
gk4ever2 said:
I understand what you mean, but steel composition can be important too. S7 steel is good for jackhammer bits, but not for a chef's knife or a surgeon's scalpel. The properties needed for a knife's use will dictate the steel used, along with heat treat and geometry. To your point, there's a reason a scalpel is not as thick as a Battle Mistress. ;)

For me, corrosion resistance is important along with edge holding, and reasonable toughness. Under fairly good temperature and humidity control, I have had no problems with rust on uncoated SR101 (52100). I have an old INFI SHSHII that was stored outside in a crude shelter prior to me owning it, and it had only minor rust on the uncoated steel. I love the Bog Runner design, but I wish it was made with Elmax for the corrosion resistance instead of 50100B.
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You can buy plenty of Eezox for the price difference I’d imagine there to be between Elemmax and 50100B. I’ve found that a few treatments (allow to dry to touch) makes any steel very resistant to corrosion.

I’d use an S7 kitchen knife, I wouldn’t feel that it’s a poor choice actually. I’d be much more concerned with whether or not it’s a traditional Japanese Nakiri because that is the right profile for my everyday uses.

I never said it’s not important, just nowhere near the scale that people tend to make it. It seems we rarely hear about points of a knife design and what this lends itself to and in often hear people lament a knife simply because of the steel.
 
Father & Son Traditional Sharpening said:
You can buy plenty of Eezox for the price difference I’d imagine there to be between Elemmax and 50100B. I’ve found that a few treatments (allow to dry to touch) makes any steel very resistant to corrosion.

I’d use an S7 kitchen knife, I wouldn’t feel that it’s a poor choice actually. I’d be much more concerned with whether or not it’s a traditional Japanese Nakiri because that is the right profile for my everyday uses.

I never said it’s not important, just nowhere near the scale that people tend to make it. It seems we rarely hear about points of a knife design and what this lends itself to and in often hear people lament a knife simply because of the steel.
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I cut double walled cardboard all day long, and I use a Spyderco Dragonfly in K390, due to the alloy alone. M390/204p and a ton of lesser alloys won't last the day, but I get multiple days from K390/10V classed steels.

You can definitely tell what alloys work better for certain jobs. This design would have excelled in Elmax.

Also, eezox isn't food safe, afaik.
 
Dr.Horrible said:
I cut double walled cardboard all day long, and I use a Spyderco Dragonfly in K390, due to the alloy alone. M390/204p and a ton of lesser alloys won't last the day, but I get multiple days from K390/10V classed steels.

You can definitely tell what alloys work better for certain jobs. This design would have excelled in Elmax.

Also, eezox isn't food safe, afaik.
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That makes a large assumption that it's an absolute requirement that a knife stays sharp as long as possible being the main need from a knife. I put a premium on ease of resharpening and steels that are highly wear resistant are often horrible in this regard. Something like soft Victorinox steel may dull more rapidly but it's also incredibly easy to bring back to working sharp, as in done in a matter of seconds on very basic sharpening tools. How long is it taking you to resharpen those 'super steels' and what happens if you find yourself with having to use less than ideal abrasives? People simply do not consider the other side of this equation. That's not even taking into account the cost of the materials being much higher generally.

This knife appears to be made for poking holes in things rather than cutting cardboard so I can't agree that Elmax is the best choice here.

Eezox is definitely food safe when it's dry to the touch. The carrier solvent is the toxin and it all evaporates when it's applied correctly.
 
Father & Son Traditional Sharpening said:
That makes a large assumption that it's an absolute requirement that a knife stays sharp as long as possible being the main need from a knife. I put a premium on ease of resharpening and steels that are highly wear resistant are often horrible in this regard. Something like soft Victorinox steel may dull more rapidly but it's also incredibly easy to bring back to working sharp, as in done in a matter of seconds on very basic sharpening tools. How long is it taking you to resharpen those 'super steels' and what happens if you find yourself with having to use less than ideal abrasives? People simply do not consider the other side of this equation. That's not even taking into account the cost of the materials being much higher generally.

This knife appears to be made for poking holes in things rather than cutting cardboard so I can't agree that Elmax is the best choice here.

Eezox is definitely food safe when it's dry to the touch. The carrier solvent is the toxin and it all evaporates when it's applied correctly.
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Agree with you 100%

And when you have edge damage repairs become a pain.
 
Father & Son Traditional Sharpening said:
That makes a large assumption that it's an absolute requirement that a knife stays sharp as long as possible being the main need from a knife. I put a premium on ease of resharpening and steels that are highly wear resistant are often horrible in this regard. Something like soft Victorinox steel may dull more rapidly but it's also incredibly easy to bring back to working sharp, as in done in a matter of seconds on very basic sharpening tools. How long is it taking you to resharpen those 'super steels' and what happens if you find yourself with having to use less than ideal abrasives? People simply do not consider the other side of this equation. That's not even taking into account the cost of the materials being much higher generally.

This knife appears to be made for poking holes in things rather than cutting cardboard so I can't agree that Elmax is the best choice here.

Eezox is definitely food safe when it's dry to the touch. The carrier solvent is the toxin and it all evaporates when it's applied correctly.
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As far as the knife staying as sharp as long as possible isn't the case, if it were, I would have chosen a custom is REX121... The reason I chose a factory made K390 is because it has the toughness that I was seeking with a better then average edge retention.

Edge maintenance is easy enough with some stropping every other day on Diamond or CBN loaded strops. A working edge is easily kept through two days, and a quick strop after dinner while watching some TV or while my daughter is going through her routine to get ready for bed is often enough to get it popping hairs off my arm. If it needs more, then it is often nothing that a few passes (on each side) on a Spyderco ultra fine ceramic. In a pinch, due to the toughness, a $20 DMT diafold in coarse/fine will repair all but the worst damage in fairly short order by adding a micro bevel until a quality reprofile can be done.


That being said, the initial reprofile was a pain, but worth it.
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As far as this knife being for poking holes in stuff, I disagree as it being the main point (pardon the pun), but it looks as if it were designed after a boning knife, definitely Not a pig sticker. The blade is only 5" with a thin cutting edge geometry. That is a knife designed for slicing, not so much for poking, especially with the continuous belly.

Due to that, the carbides and the working edge and added stainlessness of Elmax would definitely have been a benefit.

I cut meat for a living, and have used many victorinox knives, both in a professional manner and a knife enthusiast with SAKs. I know what their alloys are like, and while they are acceptable, I definitely find them lacking. AEB-L is better in most regards, as is CPM154, and neither requires much more for sharpening.
 
Did most of U Hogs opt for Penetrator tip ?
(Got 1 coming my way. Trail point)
 
TMM, I ordered the standard tip version. Now, if we could only get Jerry and VooDoo to make a 10" version. :D:thumbsup:
 
Ciscocbc said:
I did, diferente subject. Mr brown David Brown David Brown when will you have sheaths for this. Should I have busse send mine directly to you
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I ordered one of each style
Please e-mail me if you would like to get on the pre-order sheath list.
 
Despite being in the wilds dodging angry vipers, heat and an over indulgence of beer... :D I did (thanks to my fellow Sydneysider) get in on these..... :D
 
same here for both
 
Cool. Can’t wait for mine. The bottom knife is the bog runner. What’s the top one?
 
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