Swamp Rat vs Becker

Buy the Rat, it's worth the wait (if you have to wait). IMO, there is no comparison between a Rat and a Becker. I've seen broken Beckers, and am yet to have or hear about any problems with a Rat.
 
"The cutting ability is similar as the edge profiles are similar"
"I would say in regards to cutting and light machete work they are both similar"

Cliff, I know you are a big fan of Busse products but this is rediculous.
Even Siegle who sometimes runs a little thicker edge found it necessary to reprofile a similar Busse product. CT for light machette work. Get reality checked. The only other knives I have ever seen with edges this thick are some Greco knives, some early Siegle knives, Becker companion and CS Recon Scout.
Never have I seen an edge like these on a product intended to sell for over $150.00. Never have I seen an edge like this on a knife with an MS mark.
The Busse product is tougher, but not "massively tougher" at the expense of all around utility - great for chopping concrete block.


"I've seen broken Beckers, and am yet to have or hear about any problems with a Rat."

This subject was broached on the Camillus forum not too long ago and no one could recall such an occasion - I seriously doubt you have seen even one broken Becker. Not to say it hasn't happened or couldn't happen, any knife including a Busse can be broken if you give it the old college try.
 
Bog Dog, Howling Rat, and Camp Tramp. The web site does say 8-12 weeks, but I think that's a standard disclaimer when you order.

In all fairness, I did get a Bandicoot within a couple of weeks, but it seems the rest of the order is hung up.
 
I seriously doubt you have seen even one broken Becker. Not to say it hasn't happened or couldn't happen, any knife including a Busse can be broken if you give it the old college try.
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Actually, Cliff used to have pictures on his website of some of the ones he has broken.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
The long waits people have described arent necessarily the usual case. I got my BR in a couple weeks, HR was about the same. It depends on the production cycle, and when you order what knife. You could communicate with the company, they are very friendly and prompt with Emails they could tell you if there was going to be a long wait.
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I tried to email/pm you, but can't. I agree they are very friendlyl. I understand the production cycle, but it doesn't explain why most of my order is still hung up. My last couple of emails have gone unanswered. In the future, I'll probably try harder on the secondary market if I still feel like trying...
 
sodak said:
My last couple of emails have gone unanswered.
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Make a post in the public form here. This insures that there is no possibility of lost emails, plus of course public communication tends to get attention faster.

averageguy said:
Never have I seen an edge like these on a product intended to sell for over $150.00.
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Lots of tactical knives have more obtuse edge profiles, TOP's, Strider, etc., not to mention much shallower primary grinds, they are also much more expensive. Several custom makers have described they run similar profiles as Busse edge wise, they are also much more than $150. I have seen knives which were way thicker, I saw a Livesay which was near 1/8" at the edge I assume that was an over grind or a customer request as I saw a similar model which was just a fraction. I have also seen customs where were ground much more obtuse.

Never have I seen an edge like this on a knife with an MS mark.
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Yes they are optomized for lighter work usually, like the Murray Carter I had awhile back which rippled on a light knot but cut very well in general.

If you want a really thin edge on a Camp Tramp then just ask for it. If you get one and it is too thick and you didn't ask for it but were surprised then ask to see if the edge profile is the expected behavior and not simply a variance.

There were several problems for example with the Becker Patrol machetes where users were having problems with them breaking on light wood chopping, it turns out that many were released with overly thin edges, <0.020" which made they too weak and they rippled / cracked.

If the customer base complains about the profile the majority of the time they would likely address it. However there was a post in the Swamp Rat forum just recently where in fact a user complained that the edge they got was too thin.

As with any production knife you would expect variances, compare one which is ground a couple of degrees higher than average to one which is ground a couple of degrees lower and they will act very different cutting wise.

The Busse product is tougher, but not "massively tougher"
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The spring temper on thicker stock is much tougher and stronger, try to bend both, or impact both heavily. The difference is greater than the price ratio. If all you are doing is light machete work then the toughness is of no advantage but it seems kind of odd to buy the knife for that.

Yes a CU/7 makes just as capable a machete as a Camp Tramp, however a $20 Martindale will function better than both of them at that and is of course much cheaper.

In regards to profiles :

The edge profile on the CU/7 was 0.036 +/- 0.002" thick behind the bevel and ground at 16 +/- 1 degrees. The Camp Tramp was ~0.058" thick and ground at slightly below 16 degrees per side for the main body of the blade and swelled out to ~18 degrees per side in the tip.

Both were similar on 3/8" hemp due to the edge angle being the same, on carving hardwoods the CU/7 had a slight advantage due to the thinner edge but the index finger cutout on the Camp Tramp allowed a greater torque advantage which compensated for it and gave it better performance in general.

On thick chopping the Camp Tramp was far ahead ~2:1 due to the helft and balance, on lighter vegetation where speed is more important the CU/7 has a better fatigue rate with a full grip as it is more neutral in balance. The Camp Tramp has similar handling ability if the index finger cutout is used.

The Becker Combat Bowie had a thicker edge than the CU/7, ~0.040 and was ground more obtuse, ~19 degrees per side. I would assume these differences were just variances in grinding.

The edge on the Camp Tramp I had seemed a little high to me, I assumed it was an over grind though the angle was solid. I'll check on the Battle Rat, even for heavy rock impacts and pry/twisting, about 0.035" behind the edge is very difficult to damage past.

-Cliff
 
sodak said:
I tried to email/pm you, but can't. I agree they are very friendlyl. I understand the production cycle, but it doesn't explain why most of my order is still hung up. My last couple of emails have gone unanswered. In the future, I'll probably try harder on the secondary market if I still feel like trying...
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For the quickest answer, try posting on the Swamp Rat site's forums. There really isnt too much to be found on the secondary market, unless people have purchased some to sell for profit. They are definitely worth waiting for :)
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
For the quickest answer, try posting on the Swamp Rat site's forums. There really isnt too much to be found on the secondary market, unless people have purchased some to sell for profit. They are definitely worth waiting for :)
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They are good knives, but if they don't answer my direct emails to the company, I doubt that posts to a forum will make a difference. They get one more email. It's really a shame, they seem to have forgotten where they came from.
 
I placed my order for the Camp Tramp on March 12th and still waiting.

I'm going to stick it out because I've read enough reviews to convince me it's a good knife. Once I try it out I'll decide if the wait was worth it.
 
If you take that 90 dollars you'd spend on a howling rat you could have a comparably sized Bark River by the end of the week. Fallkniven also has a few options in the same price and size range.
 
i had a BK&T as my main backpacking blade and it performed incredibly. i gave it to a friend and he loves it as well. no experience with swap rat and probably won't. i got a Tops Tracker in my rig now and don't think i'll ever switch to anything else...
 
digdeep said:
I placed my order for the Camp Tramp on March 12th and still waiting.
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It is a good sign for the company that they can't keep up with orders as it shows they have exceeded their initial expected demand, however it sucks to be a customer in that situation. Unless they take steps to address this issue it is likely a lot of customers will be lost. There are a lot of people who want knives right *now* and won't wait. There is generally more slack given to customs, but for productions most people tend to expect immediate shipment.

-Cliff
 
I'm a fan of both! I have the BK9 bowie with grip tape on the handle and an OD custom Survival Sheath in my bug out bag. I love that knife. I also have a Swamp Rat Bandicoot in an Okuden desert camo sheath that accompanies me while fishing. Very cool. Meanwhile my Howling Rat is busy pulling kitchen duty. There you have it! :cool:
 
My lord

Just get a Swamp rat or Busse, they make the best so why not just buy the best. why would you ever want anything but the best.
 
Bye Vinny aka ScubaSteve :D.
 
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