Swedges and harpoon tips, to sharpen or not.

[Robert Erickson]

I've done some swedges and harpoon tips before but have never sharpened them.
Both can be a design element and "just for looks." But if I understand correctly both can add functionality to a blade. Swedges reduce weight to the tip and harpoon tips add weight to the tip. So even without sharpening they can be functional.
As far as I understand sharpening them adds to their ability to penetrate and gives the ability to cut on the back swing. Abilities that would be important in a knife fight but I can't think of other reasons to sharpen them.
So what do you guys think? Do I understand them correctly? Do you guys sharpen them? Some of them? All of them? Are the potential legal issues a concern? (I believe that some states ban them.)

 

[i4Marc]

It depends on what you will be doing with the knife and where you live. If you will be gripping the handle only and the knife will be used in a defensive posture then you may want the top sharp. If you are the kind of user that uses his off hand to apply pressure to the spine during hard cuts, or you choke up on the handle placing a thumb or other finger on the spine, you may not want it sharp. But the legal issue may trump the usage issue. A sharpened top edge puts the knife into the "daggers and dirks" category which may be illegal in your area. They are no bueno in NY.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

As Marc said, it depends on the use. If the clip/harpoon will be used in "snick and snee" fighting, you definitely want the tip sharp. If it is a camp/wilderness knife, the clip/harpoon needs to be thinned for penetration, but sharpness is not necessary.

I make them with a "false" edge ... meeting in a ridge at a fairly steep angle ( 45-50 degrees).

 

[Robert Erickson]

The reason this came up is that I've got a customer who has requested a sharpened harpoon or swedge on the camp knife I'm building him but to me, for that use, it doesn't make sense.

 

[Lapedog]

The reason this came up is that I've got a customer who has requested a sharpened harpoon or swedge on the camp knife I'm building him but to me, for that use, it doesn't make sense.

You’re right. Typically these sharpened false edges are found on fighting knives for various backcutting and other techniques.

Most camping knives avoid them because it would impare the knife’s ability to baton. The only thing I could think of is maybe using a well sharpened clip of a clip point knife to maybe “unzip” an animal that had been hunted?

 

[anvilring]

If you look at a lot of 19th cen. knives, (Bill Adam's 'The Bowie Knife Book')you will see a "swedge" cut "usually" from one side only; the right hand side. Since most people are right handed... If you were to use the tip for instance of an 8" bowie to make a small hole in something; say a leather strap, that cut swedge gives some relief in making a small curved cut. Secondly; again from a 19th cen. owner's perspective, a double edged (bowie) knife or one w/a fairly well shaped if not sharpened swedge could be used for rough work like scraping and such while preserving the finer edged on the main part of the blade. Not to mention they pierce (i.e. a straight thrust into something or someone) better. In modern times, Randall's for instance have a sharped swedge and it's cut/ground from both sides. Military folks like'em that way. In Texas currently; legal is 5.5" single edge only. So an unsharpened swedge is ok, one that'l cut isn't. That said every yardman w/a machete is in violation of state law and you can ad any and all chefs on their way to work w/their knives on the car seat.

 

[Kevin McGovern]

The only difference between my camp and large fighter is the fighter has less belly near the tip (stabbyer) and it has a swedge.

 

[Willie71]

I’ve known a number of hunters who like the last 1/2 to 3/4” of their raised clip to be sharpened. They say it pierces hide better that way.

 

[J. Doyle]

A false edge or swedge unsharpened can still aid in ease of penetration.

Having a sharp clip on a camp knife serves no good purpose that I can see.

 

[i4Marc]

I would say, have the conversation with the client. Ask them if they have a specific reason for wanting the top sharp. They may have a reason we haven't considered. If they just think it's more "bad ass" that way then maybe take the opportunity to educate them a little about the practicality in different usage scenarios and the legal ramifications, if any.

 

[Robert Erickson]

His request is for a camp knife that slices, chops and can be batoned on firewood. I mentioned that having a sharpened swedge or harpoon would not be so ideal for batoning. I've re worked the design without the swedge or harpoon so we'll see how that is received. Thanks for all the responses.

 

[LARRYZ10]

I vote for the false edge. I think the knives are safer and more workable without sharpening the swedges. Larry

 

[Fred.Rowe]

If the knife has a false edge or swedge as the one below does then it is always sharp, otherwise, what is the purpose of grinding it in this manner. A blade meant to pierce does not need a swedge, it needs a point. If the blade was built for fighting then the swedge needs to be sharpened. The knife below was an order for a younger man who wanted a fighter he could carry every day on his challenging job.
Excuse the oversize photo, my sizing program was down this morning.

Happy grinding, Fred

 

[J. Doyle]

If the knife has a false edge or swedge as the one below does then it is always sharp, otherwise, what is the purpose of grinding it in this manner.

A swedge or unsharpened clip can add visual appeal to a blade without being sharp. It still can aid in ease of piercing by thinning the tip without being sharp.

As discussed in this thread, there are plenty of times when a sharpened clip isn't practical or safe. And further, in many places a second sharp edge is illegal.

 

[Willie71]

Just to add to the unsharpened camp, leave it unsharpened. I’ve had a few who asked for a sharpened clip ask me to dull them as they cut their thumbs on a hammer grip cut. Unless the client requests it, leave it dull. (Ask the customer to be sure.)

 

[Fred.Rowe]

Many of the blades I've made come with 17 years of hard core martial arts entwined in the execution. The two for me, are hard to separate. It's no doubt why I don't build folders; I can't make them scary enough.

 

[Robert Erickson]

Good discussion here. It has certainly reinforced my thought that I'll keep leaving them unsharpened for the most part. If someone wants a fighter and there isn't a state law or other prohibition against it where they live I'd consider it in that instance.