sword from stainless

I'm confused why you'd want to make a sword, especially a Japanese style sword (like a Katana or something?) and chop wood with it? A sword wasn't invented to chop wood, it's for chopping people. People who demonstrate Japanese style swords in modern times cut through things like rolled up, wet, rice mats, not wood, since hacking up people would most likely be frowned upon. :)

You could cut ropes and stuff for fun, but I would think wood would potentially damage a thin sword.
 
good point. as i said i would chop basicly anything i would find cheep or for free, i just happen to have lots of scrap wooden materials (old doors that we are going to throw etc) my father spraypaints dorrs and drawers etc so we have lots of things laying around usually already quite weak material to begin with. now when i think of it maybe it would be a bad idea to take wood, is it reallt that damaging to swords? i think the widest part of the inside frame in the doors are approx 1,5x1,5´ the rest is basicly air and a honeycomb made from very weak fiberboard would it pose any problem u think
 
If you are planning to chop on wood, I would suggest a sturdy broadsword, or something like a large machete, with a spring temper.
 
What you see in the video is a cheap chinese cast sword made with just about the worst steel you could get. No, that probably wouldnt have happened to a higher quality 440C blade with a proper heat treat. The problem with stainless steels is that they arent quite as "tough" or flexible as carbon steels. Stainless is ok in smaller blades because you dont have to worry about them bending. You can make them thick and hard and not worry about much else. Swords, even when wielded by a professional, bend and vibrate when struck against something. Carbon steel is required to allow the flexibility in a sword. Real katanas are not physically bent by hand. The hardening process makes the edge harden much more than the spine, the edge expands in a sense, making the sword curve. You could very well make anything you want out of stainless, just be mindful that carbon steel would be much safer. As several people have said before, there are reasons why all functional swords are carbon steel.
 
WadeF said:
...I would think wood would potentially damage a thin sword.
Click to expand...

It isn't like a voilent chop into a person would be less stressful, in fact it would be more so due to the very high localized pressures encountered when dynamically cutting bone. Of course not all swords were made to do that either. But if you are looking at a large utility piece you want a parang/bolo/golok or similar, not a sword.

-Cliff
 
ThreadMoving.jpg
 
Cliff Stamp said:
It isn't like a voilent chop into a person would be less stressful, in fact it would be more so due to the very high localized pressures encountered when dynamically cutting bone.
-Cliff
Click to expand...

Do we know how many Japanese swords were chipped or broken by hacking into a person and hitting bone? :)

If the sword was made properly it probably would fair well against wood, but a light Japanese style sword seems like it would be more apt to bounce off wood and vibrate a lot resulting in an uncomfortable feeling for the hands. :)

How many swords were actually used in battle to go through bone? I would think most kills were from thrusts that pierced vital organs, slashed throats, groins, etc.

I think if this guy wants to attack left over doors and furniture he should fashion himself some kind of battle axe. :)
 
WadeF said:
Do we know how many Japanese swords were chipped or broken by hacking into a person and hitting bone?
Click to expand...

There was a thread on rec.knives about this exact subject.

I would think most kills were from thrusts that pierced vital organs, slashed throats, groins, etc.
Click to expand...

The long graceful arc on a katana isn't optomized for stabbing, plus it seems to be obvious if you read works like the Book of Five Rings that they were used to cut into people, and bones are a lot harder to cut than even really dense woods. Plus cutting a person is a *lot* more dynamic. I have lots of knives that can cut wood all day long, and do, however they would not fare well if whacked violently into moving bone. You need a much heavier edge profile to do that without harm than to just cut wood.

I think if this guy wants to attack left over doors and furniture he should fashion himself some kind of battle axe.
Click to expand...

Plus it would look cooler anyway. Get one of these from Justin and go to town :

http://www.rangerknives.com/Custom/Battle Axe/battlef.JPG

-Cliff
 
A little about stainless steels (with a variety of links to makers):
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59168&highlight=stainless

It can be done, but it's more difficult to heat treat and may not equal a carbon steel and we ALL know polishing/reprofiling would be a pain in the ***, though I suppose on soft targets it should fare well (and thereby need usually just retouching).

Re: Wade
Swords could cut through arms, wrists, and legs. The neck is certainly NOT that difficult due to the relative structural weakness of the veterbrae but usually this is well protected on the battlefield. An interesting discussion, without concrete conclusion yet: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55589&highlight=cutting+bone
A bit about the sword vs machete: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55119&highlight=cutting+bone
There are archaelogical examples of decapitated or delimbed bodies as well as plenty of contemporary artwork (yes, some of these are indeed exaggerated and/or possibly imaginary) showing this (specifically for Europe).
And a bit about live bone vs dead bone (still not sure why live bone is easier to cut): http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52386&highlight=cutting+bone
Sword abuse: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50038&highlight=cutting+bone
 
Yes, high carbon is preferred for swords but 440C is plenty tough. Dawson differentially treats his 440C and he has been making swords for over two decades. Swords are not the best tool for chopping wood but if you want a functional stainless sword - you wont go wrong here.
It is very difficult to find a Dawson or even Criswell on the secondary market.
I don't think Criswell is making swords now and a custom from Dawson will probably set you back the equivalent of two AK47's - maybe more.
 
Great info guys. Ok back to L6, is there any specific rules that apply when putting the clay on (layer thickness how wide they claylayer should be compared to the width of the blade etc)?

Should blades be 100% straight before hardening? I read L6 will go up to hrc62, is tempering necessary when doing differential hardening? L6 is for oilquenching right, big chance of warpage during quenching? Platequenching or water/brine appropriate here? I bet this has been asked many times before but ill ask again since u guys seem to know alot about it
 
hmm ive been reading up on L6 but sfter reading about it im even more confused. ok lets say the clay is on the blade, it goes out from the furnace/oven and down in the oil. we then reach Ms temperature and martensite starts forming (and so does the bend), we then get down to 50-60°C and end up with an edge of martensite (+ retained Aus) but the spine, yeah what about the spine, has the clay slowed down the cooling enough to make it softer? if yes approx how much.. 10hrc, 20hrc lower? pearlite i suppose

i also found out someone makes swords with bainite structure in the spine, how much stronger/tougher are those, is that what im aiming for, bainite? or will that pearlite do just as good?
the bainite sounds interresting. after austenisation fast down to just above Ms then it would require me to hold it just above Ms temp possibly in salt for 30-60 minutes or so depending on what % bainite i want and then let it aircool or perhaps cool down in oil to room temp, no tempering rquired. have i understood this right or is it more complicated than i thought?
 
You're thinking of Howard Clark. I'd suggest either talking to him in person (if he wants an apprentice, etc. which I don't know of) or talking with another smith in the smith forum. :D.
 
Randal Graham's also been experimenting with bainite/martensite mixed phase blades. They're not like Howard Clark's blades, because the methodology is different and the result isn't a hard edge/soft spine configuration like a Japanese blade, but a more uniform mixture.
 
I worked as a welder in kitchen shops for 12 years and saw many SS swords made from 12 or 14 ga. 304 which took a great polish and could be abrasive etched with designs. These were of course wall hangers, quite flexible and not hardened. It never occured to me to try to temper/imbrittle one and after watching the clip it's probably just as well. I don't think there's any carbon in 304 anyway. I didn't realize high carbon SS could be made file brittle as most of my SS cutlery will bend before it will break. This is such an educational place.
 
if your looking for a good stainless steel sword, ive got a both a master ninja sword i picked up for sixty bucks, (its the one with the 14 inch hilt) and a full-tang katana the one with the wooden slabs on the hilt, both are 440c stainless and in the few years ive had them ive chopped quite a bit of stuff with them and i was surprised at how well they stood up, ive split logs with the full-tang katana and ive driven thru 2 inch thick ply-wood as well as tameshigiri, the ninja sword's not very good for that cause its straight, but they could be exceptions, i imagine that the quality changes slightly with each prpoduction run they make so its just a matter of buying them and seeing what works, high-carbon is good, but expensive so if your looking far a practice weapon that you may break go with the cheaper stuff in the sixty-five to two hundred dollor range, also stainless is fairly low maintanance, while carbon has to be upkept fairly regularly(all the oiling and stuff) so unless your willing to take care of it thats fine, but i imagine theres a lot of people who buy high-carbon stuff only to let it rust, such a shame!:confused: :(
 
that particular sword is probably one of the worst ones floating out there right now, it is not a 44 dollor sword, its more like a ten or twenty dollor sword the whole things flimsy as heck (also the tsuba has all these sharp edges that scrape your hand when you use it) lol im sorry i was messing around with the first post, and the second i was reffering to the katana-esque thing weve all seen impaling that guy on the home shopping network, they make a ton of different lengths for it and all of them are crap, some appear to be nothing more than bars that are grinded to shape i doubt any of them have a proper heat treat...my roomate has two little ones that fit together to make one, personally if anyone broke in here i as soon pick up the so called (wall-hanger cavalry sword off the wall) that sword is modeled on bluechers heavy cavalry saber it weighs a ton, and although it doesent have an edge im sure it does have a temper and is high carbon, also the scabbard is made of steel and would be usefull too, a pity it doesent have an edge or it would be nasty as heck, on another note all these companies tout battle ready weapons and the ones that really do, negelect the scabbard, i wuld like to see some heavy duty polypropalyne scabbards or soilid steel ones that you could use ass an off hand parrying weapon or bludgeon....
 
Those last 2 posts were a joke right? Some other forumite with a different nick messing around?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top