Swords are just big knives.

Mr. Brian VanSpeybroeck, thanks for contributing to the discussion. I greatly admire your work, and some of your mounts for Randall Graham's blades are breathtaking. In the second picture, is that the tachi Randall was working on this past summer 2006?
Edit: Oops, found it - http://home.mchsi.com/~galloglas/RHGMtFujiTachi.html
VERY nice.

Re: thread topic
Pardon the oversimplification, but:
So in other words you advocate the spiritual and mental aspects of the sword arts over the, once-upon-a-time more practical aspects? That this form of training and development of skill leads to mental focusing/concentration that allows us to both function at a higher, more efficient and effective level than we would otherwise? Or are you referring to a form of sociological manipulation whereby training in the(Japanese) sword arts becomes both a reflection of the larger world outside and the way one functions in it, as well as a reminder, however romanticized (not such a bad thing in the right context), of a more ideal way of life?

Thank you for the eloquent, and very thoughtful, reply to the topic.
 
I just happen to be over here, checking on my Sica post and saw this. So here is my 2 cents in the form of the draft introduction to my book Dances with Steel now under contract with Paladin press. This isn't a shameless plug (well maybe a little) but it sort of gives my take swords. For me now it's sort of spiritual. A local minister asked me once if " I wanted to know Jesus." I told him I would rather know Musashi. Just joking....

Best
Dwight



Aspects of the Custom Made SwordAny decision to have a custom sword made involves not only financial commitment but an investment of the spirit as well. You’ve really got to want this thing! The going rate for most custom weapons is anywhere from $1800 to $2000 so that aspect will figure into the overall design and who you pick to make it. There is a lot of rationalization that goes on when you try to justify this decision. You can depend on the wheels of your mind turning over and over trying to justify spending such a large amount of money on a weapon that has little application to the modern world. Let’s face it, there is not much demand for swords today. One of your arguments will no doubt try will be that you plan the weapon for self defense. Well, legally this don’t hold up; Just try packing a sword in the local shopping mall and see how quick you meet the local police and security. Home defense? That’s weak too. There are certainly a many smaller, more efficient options than trying to drag a sword out of it’s scabbard in the middle of the night to use against some intruder. In the world of historical reenactments and role playing the sword may have a place, but a cheap, pot metal sword would meet those needs just as adequately. That said, you’re probably a martial artist or collector with a passion for his hobby to take on having a custom sword made. You are probably a romantic at heart that sometimes feels like you should have lived in the historic past. Regardless you want a fully functional sword that is hand crated to your physique and the martial art that you practice. You are basically interested in a sword that will permit you to accurately replicate the techniques of the past. You might say that you are a martial archeologist or even sociologist. One reasonable rationale that might work, if you need your spouse’s consent , is that training with a sword-like weapons will tend to improve one’s health. Along the same lines there is the spiritual aspect that has historically been attached to the use of the sword. No matter if you practice Asian or Western Martial Arts, there is an ‘Essence of Steel.’ It’s a feeling of satisfaction that one gets when welding a good sword. The Celts, Vikings, Japanese, Chinese and countless other cultures held swords in reverence and assimilated this into their religious doctrine. I guess these rationales are about as good as any. Your more practical, domestic friends won’t see much sense in this endeavor, but the guy who rides the big Harley motorcycle will and like him you don’t need anyone’s approval to have a ‘Hell of a Lot’ of fun. As Joseph Campbell said, “ Do your bliss” man. Go for it!.
 
senoBDEC said:
Pardon the oversimplification, but:
So in other words you advocate the spiritual and mental aspects of the sword arts over the, once-upon-a-time more practical aspects? That this form of training and development of skill leads to mental focusing/concentration that allows us to both function at a higher, more efficient and effective level than we would otherwise? Or are you referring to a form of sociological manipulation whereby training in the(Japanese) sword arts becomes both a reflection of the larger world outside and the way one functions in it, as well as a reminder, however romanticized (not such a bad thing in the right context), of a more ideal way of life?

Thank you for the eloquent, and very thoughtful, reply to the topic.
Click to expand...

Well, this is a deep subject and we need to simplify it to some degree other wise it will get very long winded and tedious and that's not good for anybody.:cool:

It doesn't have to be "Japanese" swordsmanship or even the serious study and practice of a sword art that will give us the benefit....I'm not a big proponent of people trying to relive the past or train to "be a samurai" or any of that stuff. I just think that we all get out of something what we put into it to a large degree.

Arnold Schwartzenegger impressed upon me that weight training (body building) can have the same effect on someone who trains seriously for a number of years. You can't worry about the bills and the kids and your job and all that when you are lying under a 400lb bench press...you either learn to concentrate and focus everything you have in that instant and forget the petty stuff or the barbell crushes you. So it is with training with a sword or handling it seriously and sincerely. By routine handling and training and forcing ourselves to focus and live serously in "the moment" we train ourselves and our brains/spirits to function in a way that has real life applications in all areas of our life. If it is a real sword and you jerk around with it you will hurt yourself or others near you very seriously. Ownership of a real sword is a responsibility...like driving a car or owning a firearm. And indulging ourselves in that seriousness, in my opinion, *can* make us a more spiritual/focused/serious individual. If the depth of our involvement in anything is superficial, then the skills we gain from doing that "anything" will be low level...if we play with cheap wall hangers and treat them as $49 stainless fantasy objects then the skills we gain from that interaction (and thus the life skills that are applicable to other arts/areas of our lives) are superficial as well.

Of course, seeking professional, experienced training in how to use a sword will enhance the experience but that kind of thing is not available to everyone....folks should do what they want and what is within their means. I feel that we don't gain anything all that important by being flippant or casual with something as serious as a sword. But in my world (in a perfect world) a sword has a lot of value beyond money and I do not see the swords I make or train with as toys or as being the kind of thing that would interest or should be in the possession of a casual or flippant person. Toy swords/production swords, mass produced wall hangers and the like are fine if you like that kind of thing and are of the opinion that you'd like to have them for the cool factor or for the feeling that they produce when you handle them. There is room for lots of opinions in my world.

But for me, my personal view of a sword is that it should be handled as a real and viable weapon and it's greatest value (even in this century) is in what we can become by being serious about handling and possessing these objects if we are of a mind to do that.

And I am.

Brian
 
Galloglas said:
...You can't worry about the bills and the kids and your job and all that when you are lying under a 400lb bench press...you either learn to concentrate and focus everything you have in that instant and forget the petty stuff or the barbell crushes you.
Click to expand...
On this, I respectfully disagree as I consider none of those issues petty or something you should want to forget, 400lbs or not! On the other hand...
Galloglas said:
...By routine handling and training and forcing ourselves to focus and live serously in "the moment" we train ourselves and our brains/spirits to function in a way that has real life applications in all areas of our life.
Click to expand...
...I agree completely! And I think this is your main point. This is very nicely stated.
 
Looking at it one way, the sword, in all its incarnations is an evolution of the knife. I could not imagine swords appearing in some historical timeline without knives being already present. The opposite is true however: Knives were being used long before the first sword appeared on the scene.

A flint sword would have shattered too easily to be practical. A copper sword, too easily bent.

Enter swords: They were quite different from knives in many ways. They were harder to properly make than knives; More demanding in their qualities. They were the embodiment of high technology. Up to a few hundred years ago, progress in metallurgy was driven, in large measure by swordmaking. The first real swords (that I am aware of) were bronze short swords. Subsequently, swords were made of soft iron, pattern welded steel, differentially hardened and finally tempered homogenously.

Swords were used differently than knives, and seen separately from knives by the populace. Unlike knives, swords were used almost exclusively for combat and were symbols of prestige and rank in many cultures. Swords are still displayed ceremoniously by officers in the military even though they have been long obsolete as practical weapons.

For many, swords harken back to a time when life was simpler and war less impersonal. The Vikings and others had personal relationships with their swords, often embellished them with beautiful sculpted hilts and gave them names. Unlike knives, swords were symbols of war and revered in many cultures.

Today we can possess those symbols; Use and admire them. To many, swords have a unique fascination. They are an artform, past and present.

I appreciate and enjoy my knives but see my swords in a different light.
 
Yes, but the pre-eminent military of their time, the Romans, did not make a big deal over personalizing their swords, other than the standard practce of decorating the thing. It wasn't until they began to get large numbers of Germanic barbarians into their army that you begin to see religious sorts of egravings and inlays on Roman swords. Before then, the sword was a very practical tool for killing people so far as the Romans were concerned. They weren't buried with their swords, nor did they sacrifice them to whatever gods as the Celts and Germanics did.
 
Yes, I agree. The Romans had the first professional military and their swords were standardized, as much as possible to work well with their organization, tactics and other equipment.

You are right. The Romans cannot be ignored since they loom so large in Western history.

But, as you and I note, many other cultures saw the sword as much more than simply another tool of war.
 
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