Swords for Home Defense

Thanks for the welcome and the very good answer. Very legit points.. I guess the reason I was thinking large asp primarily was how in my opinion it feels alot like a sword and looking at your post many of your points are equally true of a sword though I guess I am sort of comparing apples to oranges. My sswords are tucked away not in easy reach while my sticks (cane masters fighting sticks) are around at easy reach.

Sam
 
fu22y said:
To the member who has a barong, do you use a production model? I've seen people mention other types of blade with makers, but I'm interested to hear what you use.
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fu22y,

Sorry for the delay in answering your question.

As for the barong, it is a late 1930's, Philippine-made barong that originally belonged to my great-uncle, passed down to my father. Definitely "field grade" with a simple kakatua, sheath, and some visible forging and tool marks. It's a rather "slender" barong considering the blade is 7/32" thick and only 2 1/8" at it's widest, making it relatively light and considerably more agile than every other barong I own. I have recently "retired" it from use and put a 20" matulis bolo in its place. I've also added to my home defense arsenal a 19 1/2" talibon (I recently "restored and repaired) as my bedside sword. Both are Philippine-made and somewhat current production.

The only production piece I currently own is a Cold Steel Moro Barong which is IMO, an abomination. Although materials and overall fit and finish is quite nice, its dimensions are gargantuan in comparison to other barongs. Its size and weight make it slow and cumbersome, a PITA to work out with, and personally, unsuitable for combat.

I have owned a barong and pinuti from Kris Cutlery and handled several of their other swords. The owner and maker, Cecil Quirino, quite simply, produces handsome, functional and affordable swords from various cultures. Both the barong and pinuti I owned were well executed, very combat worthy, and reasonably priced. Also, I recently had a chance to handle some of the sandata (the Tausug Barong and Matulis Bolo) available from CAS Iberia. From what I know, all of their sandata are made in the Philippines using indigenous materials. Fit and finish was very good, with designs and dimensions comparable to classic forms; far from "tourist grade". Blades had a good edge from the factory but without ever having cut with them, I can't comment on their combat worthiness. I do plan on purchasing their barong in the near future and plan on posting more comments after having put it through the test.

Hope that helps.

D13
 
There are some giant barongs. One of my aunts in Zamboanga has one with a 20" blade IIRC. I saw it after I bought my KC barong and the shorter one I bought in Zamboanga and thought it was strange to be that big. She uses it to cut vegetables in the kitchen. :D

Other than the size of the CS barong, is there anything else wrong with it?
 
Not a sword, but my combo for home defense is my 10" henkel french chef's knife and the steel I sharpen it on. The same way the "click click" of a shotgun is its own deterrent, so is the "shing shing shing" of a knife (or sword) being steeled.
 
I am first and foremost a gun guy and use a layered defense in my home. Pistol, pepper spray and shotgun--they are not one or the other but all three--I have knives as back up weapons as well-- Cold Steel Oyabun.

I have trained 2 people in home defense that are not gun people, there layered defense is:

1---long bladed knife, short sword: one chose a Junglee short sword and the other chose a Cold Steel LTC Kukuri

2--Surefire flashlight with 200 lumens

3--Foxlabs 5.3 one pound 0C sprayer--designed for riot use

4--class IIIa vest

I dont consider either of them ill armed and would be able to handle 99.99 percent of home protection situations.

I have all these items except for Junglee sword--but was impressed by it very much---and will probably pick it up.
 
I copied and pasted this from my post on the "easiest sword" thread:

Get a decent cutlass (aka "infantry hanger"')--one with BOTH cut & thrust capabilities. So-called "pirate cutlasses" with WIDE blades can be great at cutting and chopping, but they sacrifice thrusting and can be slow on the recovery. You want CARBON steel, spring tempered, blade anywhere from 18"-26" inches. Preferably you want one that has 4" or better of back edge--or a "false edge' than can be sharpened. A half-basket hilt or knucklebow hilt can both be used for in-close punching--something a dao or katana CANNOT do. Though sort of pricey, the Cold Steel replica 1917 is almost ideal--especially with the back edge razor sharp

For the basic method, I'm going to recomend (once again ) Cold Steel: Technique of Close Combat by John Styers; 1952; Paladin Press (www.paladin-press.com ) Study BOTH the knife-fighting and stick-fighting chapters--and (blantant plug) look at my article on Styers in the Tactics and Training section. It doesnt take too much effort to see how both can be adapted to the naval short saber.

HIGHLY recomended is Dwight McLemore's Bowie and Big Knife Fighting System also from Paladin Press

Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel has a DVD set about fighting with the Saber & Cutlass--havent seen it, seems way too pricy, but might be worth it--someone else would have to comment on quality
 
Id be more likely to go for a knife than a sword due to space restrictions in hallways and doorways of my house. yeah you could, but id suggest going for your most advantageous weapon when you need it. IE if somone is breaking in get your gun. if you dont have a gun, a knife would probably be better in most situations, with the exception of giving up length but at the same time gaining maneuverability.
 
Experts in Japanese swords will tell you that a Katana is for outdoor use, a Wakishashi for indoor use, and a tanto for close confines. If one has the training and is within 15 feet or so, a waki is more dangerous than a gun. Don't forget, a gun's muzzle must be pointed in the right direction to be of any use,while a sword can cut an adversary from a dozen different directions. David Goldberg, a black belt in Kendo and premier swordmaker said to me one day while at my apartment in NY that my Glock woudn't stand a chance against him in the confines of my place. His friend, also a kendo student agreed. So I guess the conclusion is a little Kendo training goes a long way toward making a sword a very effective weapon indoors.
 
Bill of Mastersmiths said:
David Goldberg, a black belt in Kendo and premier swordmaker said to me one day while at my apartment in NY that my Glock woudn't stand a chance against him in the confines of my place. His friend, also a kendo student agreed.
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What did they offer by way of evidence of this claim?
 
To quote a famous Japanese swordsman Miyamoto Musashi “The best use of a companion sword is in a confined space, when you are engaged closely with an opponent. The long sword can be used effectively in all situations.” I think that much of the reasoning behind the long sword being “only” for outside use is because the long sword was only carried outside for the most part.

Guns come with a high liability attached that is walls and doors don’t generally stop bullets. The possibility for collateral damage resulting from missed shots can extend out several blocks. On the other hand, collateral damage from edged weapons is localized to the immediate area.

With training edged weapons can be frighteningly effective, however training can be rather a lengthily process. On the other hand, it’s no wonder that guns are so popular because they are easy to learn how to use, function wise that is.


Guncotton
AKA Bors
 
Bors, have you ever heard of frangible rounds? These are rounds that are designed to disintegrate n hitting a plasterboard wall or a plywood door. When they hit a human body, they shatter and dump their entire energy load into the area hit, usually causing considerable damage and shock. They would seem to be the ideal solution to the problem that you raise.
 
FullerH said:
Bors, have you ever heard of frangible rounds? These are rounds that are designed to disintegrate n hitting a plasterboard wall or a plywood door. When they hit a human body, they shatter and dump their entire energy load into the area hit, usually causing considerable damage and shock. They would seem to be the ideal solution to the problem that you raise.
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Not to get off the subject of swords, but frangibles can still do a lot of damage to drywall--and can pass through layers of drywall before stopping. Better, yes. But not ideal.

4-5.jpg


Here's Box O'Truth's picture of a frangible having punched through (I believe) 8 sheets of gypsum wallboard.
 
Bill of Mastersmiths said:
Experts in Japanese swords will tell you that a Katana is for outdoor use, a Wakishashi for indoor use, and a tanto for close confines. ...So I guess the conclusion is a little Kendo training goes a long way toward making a sword a very effective weapon indoors.
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Sort of ditto, the saber or backsword is for outdoors, the cutlass is for confined quarters--if it worked for boarding parties in cramped ship actions, it'll work in apartments--especially if you "tighten up" the method--avoid the circular moulinet cuts unless you KNOW have the room--and they are really coup de grace manuevers to finish things off--usually NOT legally defensible against someone already incapacitated

The bowie is essentially a short cutlass, the cutlass a shorter saber--same basic technique for all three, the effective range is the major difference. However, the action of a well-balanced bowie lends itself for multiple hits while essentially delivering the SAME devastating damage. However, you really might prefer the longer reach of the true swords.

It regards toward "learning curve"--I think the Western method & weapons are faster than the Eastern--NOT knocking the Asian approach. However, with a good handguard, the cutlass or saber are better defensivly and you can keep you point on line for the most effective, non telegraphed attacks--and have the capacity for a jaw busting punch if the bloke gets past your point.
 
Actually Yes,

To add to Watchful they are not all they are made out to be for example some have feeding issues and some fail to fragment. Even the Ammo industry has its cold steel hype. Hardball or street proven hollow points are the best choice, rather than the super hi tech Hollywood stuff.

It’s interesting to note that most gunfights occur at ~6 feet or less and there are a staggering number of misses at that distance. I did not say guns are bad choice just that they come with liabilities. Your apartment neighbors might not appreciate you emptying 30 rounds from your AK 47 on some BG that’s all.


Nice pics Watchful :thumbup:


Guncotton
AKA Bors
 
I must agree with the Wakizashi from Bugei, especially the Shobu model. Their more ancient design which is thicker. A katana is just too long. Please compare the two for yourself.

Most likely you won't use it for SD, so it will be a beautiful showpiece in the meantime, to be admired and shown to friend who are into the same.

cliff
 
ERdept said:
I must agree with the Wakizashi from Bugei, especially the Shobu model. Their more ancient design which is thicker. A katana is just too long. Please compare the two for yourself.

Most likely you won't use it for SD, so it will be a beautiful showpiece in the meantime, to be admired and shown to friend who are into the same.

cliff
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The Wakizashi is not a bad choice but I think the Chisa Katana would be better. Longer handle heaiver blade and about the same size as the Wakizashi. The better of both worlds.

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Guncotton
AKA Bors
 
All of the above considered, I think that I would stand by my recommendation of a good, handy short sword that has both cut and thrust capability. Since I already have one, a Gladius Hispaniensis that is delightfully light and quick, I don't need to go looking, but I do understand that the Kris Cutlery gladius in the Pompeii style is quite solid and very handy.
 
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